JTUK

Just to quantify a few things/figures. We are working on about 80pints per barrel. Beer is over £3.00 in virtually every pub..and certainly tied pubs so on a music night, expect to pay £3.60 a pint for Doombar, for example. ( One or two free houses can seel at £2.50 on a band night as their buy-in is £45-ish a barrel..!!! ) So, a barrel of beer at around £3.60 gets you £280 quid per barrel so they can net off of £85 per Barrel, just shy of £200 'profit' for 80 pints. So if a band only sells 100 pints including other drinks, then basically the LL is treading water only. He then needs good nights to get ahead. This is probably why they book cheaper bands from time to time and hope he gets away it. Of course, an expensive band is no garauntee to get his money back.... and none of those bands will want to hand 'back' money for a duff night. So... he has his master plan and bands have theirs.

Good question. I think typical pubs make north of £1.50 a pint. A few figures I have gleaned... Beer Barrel costs from £45-£60 a barrel in a free house, to a tied-in price of about £85-£115 a barrel so a barrel can earn £230-ish.... So, for a LL to make his money back on the band...without his other considerable costs, he needs to sell around 100pints depending on what he pays for the beer in the first place. Pubs round here will pay £300 for a pub band...if that band is proven, and they will go to £350 for an event. £200 seems the standard... maybe £250. So the Landlord is expecting that band to bring in a minimum of 20 people, I'd say...plus his 30 odd regulars and you have a start of a good evening.

Sure, some Landlords are their own worst enemy... as they don't know all the bands they book. They may ask if the band has a following and of course, the answer will be yes... otherwise that band has just blown out the gig. We only do a few pubs and then we take care on choosing them. It took a bit of time but mostly we were recommended by people who may have or hopefully had some sort of musical credence with the venue. Once you get up and running, then these things follow on pretty quickly and easily... but you still have to keep an eye on who is struggling. We tend to play one pub per town..and only two in our own town...and then there are the few specials. This is the flip side of venues being able to put on events ad hoc, as the summer will bring many garden parties in marquees. The fee for that will be pub rate plus, so not likely to even hit mates rates. But if a special occasion, then it can work. This Easter is chocker with pubs doing gigs. Ditto May bank holidays. So, I actually think the music scene is quite vibrant ( round here ) but I don't think it helps that much if the scene is watered down. Sure, you can back yourself and you'll get the gigs on your own merits, but I would think 9 gigs in a town on a sat night might be OTT. However, if that helps bring more people into the music scene, then that is good. I am just not convinced it does.. Anyway, this is banter and has a fascinating..to me.. insight, into what makes a band popular, but otherwise, I am not so bothered.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397590964' post='2425520'] .................... Things might be tough for the aspiring professional musician [b]but calls for increased regulation to restrict things just to give themselves a better chance is tantamount to admitting their own failure.[/b] [/quote] No, it isn't... it is the same as plumbers...to use that trade... not being totally in love with 'free' plumbers. We all know bands work for free for their own reasons...and generally they are more keen to do the gig rather than charge because then they would probably loose the gig... I can't myself, say, I am that upset about this state of affairs because I doubt it affects me that much..and I don't expect any legislation to happen either. But in an ideal world, I think less venues would mean a rise in standards all round, as the better bands would be the ones getting those gigs. There are only a finite number of people going to watch live music but they would populate those fewer venues so this could lead to them being able to afford to pay more. ..in theory. Haing said that...I am not unhappy with the money we get or the amount of gigs that come our way.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1397581639' post='2425399'] Imagine that! Removing red tape and allowing people to do what they want, when they want, how they want. But that's the trouble with freedom . . . People do what they want with it [/quote] Well, I understand you are all for a free market and limited legislation ..and I broadly agree, but sometimes people take it too far... as the bankers did, and the MP's did, etc etc, so yes, sometimes you can't trust all people, all of the time. I mean, why have any sort of law, if that wasn't the case..?? In this case, IMO, the relaxing of the license law has lead to a bit of a mess and 'free' for all. and it doesn't benefit musicians..IMO..which is what we care about

Agree, Our criteria is only that it is a good song, and then that it will sit with the others. Our singer writes good songs but it still needs to work with the tools we have.. and if it doesn't we wont include it. So, a band will live or die by the music they play and the way they play it... nothing else really comes into it, as far as I am concerned,

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1396047187' post='2409537'] Yeah f*** corn syrup. And f***ing palm oil. And why don't peeps eat butter anymore? Because they were taught to eschew healthy natural products and eat that sh*t the gub'nint says is healthy - highly processed, toxin-rich f***ing sh*t like Olivio. [/quote] I have always liked butter...and always want it in the house...same as full fat milk, but I guess you need moderation. I would hope the real education is in what to eat and how, rather than the fast food/processed stuff... which probably does you more harm. But, like with all things.... some people can't or wont pay for good stuff, so the market supplies on the basis of price... As an aside.... anyone had a good steak recently..and how much was it..? Cooked at home or eaten out..?

Welcome back, Dave...

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1397570216' post='2425218'] .............. It is strange that so many lobbied for a relaxation in licensing laws yet the consequence is a pressure on those bands who have customarily charged for their services. On balance, more gigs is a good thing; yet I feel a sympathy for those who have invested in their craft and in building a reputation. [/quote] You ( I ) just knew a relaxation of the licensing laws would not help... It did exactly what we all knew it would do... allow more venues carte blanche to do what ever they wanted and that allowed bands to pour forward and offer their services for free. I don't think I knew a serious musician who thought otherwise... as they are the ones that need the income. They still work but the pay has remained static or even dropped off...and you can put a lot of this down to the economic times of the past 5 years, but I also bet there are plenty here who go out for the same money they did 15 years ago...?? and my question is what is keeping doen those fees..?? For one, the fact that venues can get very cheap/free music... IMO. Anyway, I'll keep going for the discussion's sake... it is all banter, not looking to crucify anyone here over it

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1397566708' post='2425184'] In such a State, you probably wouldn't have any meaningful 'vote'... [/quote] What state..?? it would only be a music bill, where any event needed certain appliance. Something not far on from the old music license with a few more bells on it... that is all.

Of course, I'd have a a choice. I would still determine what jobs I actually took, but the point is that it would eliminate the chancer venue as I call them. And of course, the chancer band. Do I think it would cure all woes...of course not? just like a 'qualified ' plumber isn't always the guy you want to call, but at least it teaches people they expect to pay..and then budget for that in their operations. It is a far from ideal resolution, admittedly, but then neither is a whole summer of free gigs put on by people whose only reference to free or charity is the actual whole draw to the event..the music/bands, typically.

Me?... vary between 212, 2x210 or 2x112 and I turn up as loud as I need to be to hear myself alongside everyone else. Gtr is sensible and takes off the bass of his gtr..and bleeds thru the P.A. Keys have mini P.A backline and bleeds to the P.A and drums have kick only for small places. This is our default rig and we always have a good sound-they say. I can believe this as I can hear us sounding good from where I stand. So it doesn't need to be that complicated... if you can't hear someone in the band, something else is too loud or the mix is unbalanced, IMO.

I kind of agree that regulation can bring as many issues with it than it may solve... but as I say, if it elevates the game out of amatuer hour, then I think that is good as whole. In fact...despite our reservations, if that is all it achieved, I think I would vote for it...

And the monitors will take the bass to a level that the band can hear and play to..?? This is the key to monitors... do they take bass and how many mixes can you have?

Depends what the rest of the band thinks.... because if they can't hear you, you haven't got much to play with. If you hate carrying in gear what are you lumping 3k for... and where..?? I don't think I'd lug around bins and tops just so the bass player could carry not a lot

[quote name='groovastic' timestamp='1397500845' post='2424575'] Thank you all for your answers! So if we are talking about all these finesses, SubsonicSimpleton, I still think there would be as much difference between 2 J basses from the same manufacturer as there would be from 2 different manufacturers. Isn't it so? And JTUK, I agree that making all the parts working good together is what is important, but is that the reason why J basses from different luthiers sound differently? Is it because Celinder likes using alder wood blanks that sound like "ding" when you knock on them, and Sadowsky uses the ones that sound like "dong"? Is all the difference coming from different taste in wood block's sound at different luthiers? [/quote] It might be as simple as that... but then you factor in all the other variables like neck construction..and off you go at a tangent. It might not be that far off...but enough for someone to think that is the 'one' Just pick one up and decide you can work it... After a few weeks you should have unlocked a bit more but if it sounds like a dog on day one... that is the one you don't buy, IMO. And the other thing you can ask is...if this kit is so great, then why is it for sale..??

Oi, I'm not from Tunbridge Wells. but.....I do generally have the POV that there are too many bands able to ply their trade, altho that is stretching it as they are actually giving it away, but there you go..!! and..too many pubs putting on ad hoc music dates.. Now..for the punter, this is 'great' in terms of choice but it does not help the person wishing to sell his skills. And I don't see why some hobbyists should be regarded as a free touch when they may well have put in far more time or effort than your plumber. Staying off the charity theme here, which I feel is 'abused', but free bands are setting a precedent to quite a large degree, so it is not true to say they don't or shouldn't affect proper bands. They do... as their very willingness means so many venues/pubs will have line-up staffed entirely by bands doing it fo free. And on that basis, we could not get near that gig even if we wanted to. As it turns out we work enough ...but basically you can blame bands for the crap conditions they work for because they put up with it or, worse, they actively seek it out. Do I or would ! want some sort of affilated register for bands and venues that accompanies a license or something. Yes, I think I would.... so if that means bands need PLI and PAT, for example and venues need the same and a certified stage wiring loom etc etc... then that is good if only for a safety POV. Once you have had to pay for that... then the game isn't free anymore, it costs... Basically we are treated like amatuers because we behave like them...

Whereas I will put on music all the time and hear a few things that make me pick up and the bass and play along. It may only just be something I'm doing in the same key so I am more interested in the groove going on than the tune. I have always played along and continue to do so to this day... just that I am more capable of doing my thing rather than their thing. So, in a Covers band, I'll do the same but tone it down somewhat as I accept there are parametres and limits to adhere to. When we do original stuff... I still need to feel it...and that is the common theme. If you aren't inspired, it doesn't really matter what you play, it probably wont sound so good.

I think the most important thing to the sound of the bass/instrument is how well the core components react/resonate together. This is why cheaper basses don't tend to work as well. Most Luthiers will spend some time testing combinations and getting good wood sources. Sure, cheaper constructions can get lucky but the odds are more against, IMO. Things like fit and build become key... and then you dress that up with decent pickups/circuits etc etc. Having said that, there is no absolute garauntee, IMO, and it always bemuses me when someone reviews one bass and then assumes/implies that is the standard of all of them, particuarly with regard to sound You'll find most luthiers use active electronics to legislate a degree of consistancy as well. Again, IMO. You can use the term 'vintage' as a pointer and 'modern' and then you are into a world of degrees on those defintions.

The reputable festivals have health and saftety crawling all over them... The reason I push a local one round here is that I know what the budget is and I know how hard they work to make it a success and how other 'events' don't... The relaxing of the license laws has a LOT to answer for as well.

I mentioned charity beer festivals and some are infamous for not paying the chief talent which is the bands. Nobody is going to come and see the P.A soundman stack his gear, or the marquee guys put up a tent etc etc but they get a free bill because bands have allowed this to be 'acceptable. Year in year out, these places will get their bills sorted...for free, so if it is so easy, then why on earth would some businessman incorporate a cost they didn't have to. So therefore, the better bands will not play them.. or mostly, better, as in they know their worth to venues... You aren't going to break this chain unless people don't play them... and since a few will hide behind the charity thing... these places should publish how much they raised. I'd be expecting a huge bar slice to be in there too... wouldn't I..??

And here they come... charity beer festivals... It is the season...........

Note for note copy is good to nail..as some of the lines are pretty difficult so that is good for honing technique but that should not be as far as you go..and unfortunately, that is as far as some go. oh well...!! Getting beyond someone else's....possibly iconic line .. is a goal but you'll not likely get much thanks or recognition for it.... oh well..!! Writing your own line if you don't have too much playing time..is going to be limiting, as there is a lot you just don't know. Of course, some make it work, and some don't ever get any further ..or may not need to. You'll be surprised how many people can't play much outside of the genre that they spend the most time in... oh well..!! You do what you do, and if you don't ever want to move from that space, then that is a personal choice. If you have a blank canvas for originals, and get to do what you want, then fine...the harder part comes in when someone suggests you change it ..and then it may be a question of the right tools/knowledge. Good music is good music...

Gotta say that I haven't seen Verdine actually play on any gig for years. I wonder who is playing those parts live. He spends more time dancing these days.

It's a bugger if you don't play songs kind to open strings...