WinterMute

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='523998' date='Jun 25 2009, 06:46 PM']Correction; Sogg's Sadowsky now! [/quote] Don't I know it, and don't think I didn't take a long hard look at the finances when you posted the damn thing, that's one beautiful bass.

I used a Thumb 5 for 20 years, lovely beast, mine had the single piece bridge and EMG's. It's a great and versatile bass, I played lots of different stuff with it, rock, pop, a little ska, some blues, as close to jazz as my meagre talent allows.... I sold it last year because I wasn't playing at all, and it was too good to leave on a stand. I now have a Geddy Lee and a Squire VMJ fretless, the Geddy takes care of the rock and blues (and isn;t bad for poppy stuff). I think I'd want a pre-amp in the Jazz if I was going to try to make it as versatile as the Thumb, an East J Retro would do the trick. As it stands I think one of the super Jazzes is more than equal to the Thumb and it really depends which bass you are happiest with. I'd kill for Warwickhunt's Sadowsky.

I prefer roundwounds, usually Rotosound nickels. Sure they chew the board up after a while, but that's just the price you pay for the tone. My sweat is nasty stuff and I kill strings quite quickly, even with a careful clean after playing, flats don't cut it for me in the high end, and groundwound die too quickly. I'll keep the roundwounds a stump up for a new board every couple of years like I used to I think.

Whatever it takes t get the sound for the track. I really like bass tone controls through a flat SVT, but it's rarely whats required, so I'll use the bass, the amp, pedals, outboard, mics and rooms to get the recorded sound I'm after, then slap EQ and dynamics on if needed in the mix. Live it used to be bass, amp and a chorus occasionally.

Oh dear no, no that won't do at all, sunburst? Sunburst isn't a finish a Geddy Lee Jazz should be available in... Looks good though, doesn't it?

Lovely, he's quoting Jaco's work all the way through that, as is the sax actually. Ala Joni Mitchell, Shadows and Light.

You going for a big live sounding room there? Those panels in that positioning wouldn't take the room down to diffuse, so I'm hoping you'll be looking for a signature sound rather than a neutral sound. What are you doing with the floor? All carpet, or different surfaces? I loves me some positive room sound, and yours looks big enough to be useful to a decent sized ensemble. Nice work so far, looking forward to seeing it finished (I know it doesn't feel like it ever will be, that's the nature of studio builds isn't it?).

I [i]am[/i] an Apple evangelist, no question, however the Mac vs PC question has been a dead rubber for some time now. The important thing to remember is that all recording software will do a good job, but great recordings start and end with good mics and pre-amps, if you have a shed load of cash by all means get a Mac, they are lovely machines to run Protools on (and obviously Logic etc.) and Garageband isn't half bad (it's not what it could be however, but that would dent Logic wouldn't it?) If you're on a budget, I'd suggest a decent PC and spend the extra cash on good mics and a solid interface, the MOTU range is very good for instance. Look at mics from SE and Sontronics before shelling out of Neumann and AKG. Logic, Nuendo and Digital performer are all good MIDI programmers, and have great suites of synths and samplers, Protools is an audio recorder, editor and mixer first and foremost, however all can record and all can edit MIDI and run synths. Abelton Live is an interesting alternative. Have a think about what you want to achieve and how you want to go about it, do you need lots of mics at once (MOTU 828 has 8 mic inputs for instance) or will a single or stereo input suffice. Get the best mics and pre's you can afford, they will last a lot longer than any mac or PC. I have a set of mics that go back 20 years, I've seen 10 Macs off in that time easily. Software and computers come and go, mics and good signal paths are eternal...

Peter Cooks have them listed for £610, but they never seem to have stock...! eBay has them pretty regularly, usually under £500.

Just been reading some stuff about Mr. Manring, someone asked him if he'd tried a Chapman Stick, he said yes he had and that (and I quote) "he sucked"... I tried a Chapman Stick too, and I sucked, maybe there's hope for my fretless playing yet.

[quote name='bythesea' post='519849' date='Jun 21 2009, 11:25 AM']A fretless stick? He does have a few basses, including a 10 string (though it's a 5x2) and a 6. Lists them and shows the tunings he uses (14 on "The Enormous Room" alone!!!) on [url="http://www.manthing.com/tunings.htm"]this[/url] page of his website.[/quote] Well, there's the half fretless NS Stick.... 8 strings, multi-mode, strung like a bass and not in one of their weird "my hands are on backwards" tunings... [url="http://www.stick.com/news/halffretless_ns.html"]Half-fretless NS Stick.[/url] Loads of fun.

Astonishing intonation on a fretless, and some very interesting uses of the hardware, I can't say I particularly liked the song, parts of it were beautiful, but overall it didn't do a lot for me. I watched some of the other videos, Morning Star is a display of virtuoso level, and he is clearly an exceptionally talented musician. I'm always a little underwhelmed by these solo bassists, most of them have such advanced technique, but few of them write decent tunes. The only solo bass pieces that remain on my iPod for long are Jaco's. Someone get him a Chapman Stick, for god's sake!!

[quote name='foal30' post='519100' date='Jun 20 2009, 09:40 AM']my old man has been to literally thousands of gigs and he says this Leonard Cohen stuff was at the top of the pile. A+ stuff. a spiritual experience by all accounts.[/quote] One of the best gigs I have ever seen, and I've seen a few biggies in my time. It wasn't a one-off either, I took the in-laws to one of the repeat performances later that year, and it was another absolute cracker. Never seen one man hold a 20,000+ seat stadium in complete silence while he recites a poem... There were people crying in the aisles. As I said, god-like.

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='518853' date='Jun 19 2009, 09:14 PM']Was just wondering what the red fiver with maple neck was the bass player is using? Any ideas?[/quote] It's the Roscoe Beck signature Fender, appropriate being as he's Roscoe Beck I guess...! I was at that gig, Cohen was god-like.

[quote name='dr.funk' post='517758' date='Jun 18 2009, 07:53 PM']I understand what you are saying but here is an interesting article on the matter of Hifi vs Monitors [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/monitors.asp"]One[/url] [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul02/articles/monitors2.asp"]Two[/url][/quote] Yes, I saw those articles when they were published, there's certainly more choice in the lower end of the market these days, and I must say I have mixed very successfully on a pair of KEF 105.4 Reference hi-fi speakers before I got my PMC's. I spec Dynaudio M1 and BM5 or 6a's in the studios at the Uni, and we also have some PMC sets too. They certainly kick out some serious SPL, but we do try to teach moderation in monitoring levels for tracking and mixing. I think it's probably a better use of your money to buy a cheaper pair of speakers in the first instance and spend some money learning how to record and mix properly, this is somewhat akin to buying a starter bass to learn on then getting lessons from a great teacher before buying some custom monster. Good speakers (and good kit in general) is no guarantee of good recordings.

[quote name='escholl' post='517064' date='Jun 18 2009, 12:52 AM']Not sure what you're trying to tell me here. They didn't cut off at 300Hz they cut off around 100Hz when installed properly (IIRC) and they cut off with a less steep slope than bass reflex speakers, for that matter they're not a bass reflex design they're acoustic suspension and thus have much better time domain response in the low frequency for a box that size. Not sure what "tunable porting" is, but if you're somehow referring to the ability of the end user to physically change the port, I can't really see where there would be any advantage in a monitor having that capability, nor can I think of a single monitor with that capability. No idea what orientation they were designed for, but based on the driver layout both versions should have been used vertical, on their side to minimize horizontal response lobing and improve the imaging. The response peaks at 2K in an inverted V shape, like I mentioned -- this doesn't hurt vox or guitar IME, it helps bring them out a bit more so you can place them better. YMMV. Sure, they were marketed well -- so are a lot of other products. I never said they were the [i]ultimate[/i] monitor or something, simply that there were factual reasons behind their usefulness and success. Not sure why people are so vehemently trying to prove to me that they're no good -- I've used them, I've studied them, I've done this before and this is not my first day, thanks. The Rokits have a hyped frequency response IME, agree about the Tannoys to a point and I think it probably goes without saying that the PMC's will likely be good. Not sure if you're talking to me or the OP in the last two paragraphs however.[/quote] I wasn't really trying to tell you anything, I was just carrying on a themed discussion on the merits of monitors, specifically the NS10... The lack of ports on any speaker severely limits the usefulness of the box on the response of the speaker, a closed box design like the NS10 gets very little help from the resonant frequency of the boxes internal design, (in this case, none, it's just box) better designed monitors have an internal structure that allows the volume to resonate at low frequencies, the ports to the front or rear allow that resonance to be projected and thus support the limited low frequency response of the raw driver. Tunable ports use various methods to allow the alteration of that resonant frequency to adjust the speaker to the needs on the room. PMC do it, Tannoy used to do it in the larger monitors, Urie do it, few others. The addition of any EQ peak in the design of a [i]monitor[/i] speaker is always a bad idea, as it forces the user to compensate and that means the user has to understand the curve and know enough about audio to avoid its effect, the 2K lift in most small box nearfields plays to the strengths of standard hifi speaker design and to small speaker systems like radios, TV and ICE. This is one of the reasons the NS10 was liked so much despite actually being quite a poor unit, a mix on NS10, when played through a standard hifi, would benefit from the enhanced presence that band brings, inducing that sense of impact that hi-fi speakers are designed to give. The clue to the orientation is in the writing on the box, original NS10's (the famous "tissue paper over the tweeter" model) were designed to stand up like hi fi speakers. The Studio model was supposed to sit in the more bridge friendly horizontal orientation, but there was no difference in the design bar an improved tweeter that made the response flatter, as you not, the sideways orientation buggers up the imaging, which is why the dual concentric design works for imaging. I'm not trying to pick a fight, and you can't actually buy NS10's new anymore (or can you?), but the NS10 simply isn't the best monitor for inexperienced engineers, and the OP was looking for advice.

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='517043' date='Jun 17 2009, 11:54 PM']And FWIW, you don't need an NS10 driver to do the subkick trick. Any speaker will do it.[/quote] ...but that white speaker cone makes it so much [i]cooler[/i] to use and NS10 driver...

[quote name='escholl' post='517002' date='Jun 17 2009, 10:54 PM']I think the idea was that they were accurate in the time domain with minimal bass overhang, and had a fairly smooth frequency response in practical application, which peaked around 2kHz or so and let the detail on instruments such as guitars and vocals come out more clearly. The frequency response also has a bit of an inverted V shape to it, which is often cited as one of the reasons they tended to sound harsh but translated well to other systems. Interesting fact, most people mounted them incorrectly. I've used them a few times and I liked them as a tool (hence my desire to get the AE version), but then for some reason I like listening to music through (most) studio monitors and wouldn't mind a set of [url="http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo/ureiad39p.jpg"]these[/url] in my living room (simply because they look awesome -- that's right, buying speakers on [i]looks[/i] ), so I suppose there's no accounting for (my own) taste ^_^[/quote] They cut off at 300hz, they have no tunable porting, they didn't have aligned elements, and the originals were designed to stand upright as you note, the "Studio" version had filtered tweeters and were designed to sit on their sides, but that buggered up the imaging. They all honk like a constipated goose at 2K, which is where the presence in a bass is (well, between 1K and 2.5K) and that really hurts your vocals and guitars too. No offence but these are really average speakers that have been excellently marketed. Oddly if you power them with a Yamaha GC 2520 (I think) amp, they sound pretty good, this was the amp they used when they designed them. Having said all that, I have used them on many occasions and have gotten good results out of them, I just find them much harder to mix on that good (and obviously more expensive) speakers. The KRK range is very good, the Rockets aren't all that expensive, the Tannoy Reveals are very nice, the dual concentric design give excellent imaging and time alignment. If you can find a pair of PMC TB2's on evilBay they are very good but need a decent amp. In the end, understanding what a speaker is telling you is more important than having great speakers, good engineers will get good results from almost anything.

[quote name='escholl' post='515728' date='Jun 16 2009, 08:43 PM'][i]Supposedly[/i], the woofer makes a good kick mic as well, if you reverse wire the speaker up as a dynamic mic. I've heard a few different studio types mention it, but I've never tried it, so it could be complete bollox.[/quote] This is entirely correct, I have one mounted into an 8" tom shell, it's excellent for recording the real low end woof of a kick drum, but you need to ally it with a good kick drum mic, my choice is the EV RE20 or a Beyer M88. A dynamic mic is, in essence, a speaker operating in reverse. On the question of monitors, true monitors are not good for actually listening to music, they are tools. Hifi speakers are coloured to make all music sound good. I've never bought the NS-10 argument, they are simply crap, why should I have to suffer listening to crap speakers during a mix. I use Dynaudio M1's or BM5a's, my mixes sound good on them and good on anything else, a good mix has little to do with the speakers provided you know what they are telling you. If yo want some real monitors, get these, if the career bombs out, you can always live in them...! [url="http://www.dynaudioacoustics.com/Default.asp?Id=284"]Dynaudio Acoustic M4+[/url]

I stuck a Gotoh 201 on my Squire VMJ fretless, and while it didn't alter the tone a great deal (a little more zing maybe) it did bring the sustain out a treat, the damn thing goes on forever (holds unplugged bass up to ear....). I have a badass 2 on the Geddy Lee but as it's a standard fitting, I can't comment on the effectiveness, but that bass sustains like a b*stard, and has tone to spare. The Badass is a much heavier beast that the Gotoh, which has a hollow back, but both are infinitely better than the bent piece of tin that comes as standard. Obviously the Gotoh is at least half the price of a Badass.

Lovely work mate, well worth the effort. My Squire VMJ has had a few mods, it's got a Gotoh 201 bridge and I shimmed the neck (thanks t the great "Shim Your neck" thread). I grabbed some Wizard 84's from obbm here on BC, but have yet to get them installed, that's next on the list. I might throw an East into it at some point, although with the earthing and shielding done its not noisy and the Wizards are going to make a big difference. I'm really liking the passive thing atm. I'm also planning some seriously radical mods for my Geddy Lee... a black pickguard1

I got mine a few weeks ago, it's a great bass. I understand it's the best selling Fender Signature model, and not without good reason. They can be had for under £500 off ebay, Peter Cooks are still advertising them for £610 (but never have stock... ). They sound great, and have one of the truly great Jazz necks, it's a joy to play. Mine is a little grubby, a few dings here and there, but it exudes solidity and feels like a bass that will just go on getting better. There was some talk of early models having hardware problems, but this one (a 1996 I think) has no problems at all. I confess to always wanting one because Geddy Lee was responsible for me picking up a bass in the first place (not to mention some truly awful caterwauling), but after playing a Warwick Thumb 5 for 20 years and currently owning an NS Stick and a Squire VMJ Fretless, I really can't see where the extra bucks went in the Warwick or the Chapman. Buy one, don't even think about it.

I've got the Squire, it's a very good beast for the money, sets up well with a Gotoh 201. It's immensely playable and sounds pretty damn good straight out of the box, I bought a Geddy Lee just after I got the VMJ, it's a better built instrument, but it;s obviously much more expensive. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the VMJ as a starter fretless, and I think it's going to last a good deal longer than I initially thought, it may even simply stay on as primary fretless.

When I went to uni in 1982, I had a Sound City 200w valve amp, a Custom Sound 1x15 bin and an Aria Pro 2 Precision copy, in a room a little bit wider than a single bed and twice as long... That sucker was LOUD, so I had to buy a hi-fi that was just as loud to play along with... I had a blast in uni, I'm teetotal cos I'm allergic to alcohol, and this in a time when safe sex was a padded headboard.

The Line 6 Studio 110 combo is excellent for your needs i think, I got one for £100 off evilBay, it's got a headphone output that cuts the speaker, it's got good DI output with speaker emulation, and if you should need an amp for a bit of impromptu 3am jamming with your mate, your good to go. It's even got an iPod input for jamming along with your faves, all in a 1 foot cube that actually doesn't sound bad at all.