Bean9seventy

2 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Hi Tension seem to have used Fenders in 1978.

 

 

 

The bass player from atmosphere also used a fender ,, so we got 2 guys out of about 10 ,, we need to go down this rabbit hole , so we can understand the down turn in Fender, remember this down turn, is from the look of fender & what it represented ,, to us it was an ultimate pro rock machine,

1 minute ago, Bean9seventy said:

Brit Funk in its purest form is born on the dance floor Right ? 

 

& these Jazzy Funky Soul Guys had rules ,, so

 

1st , since Brit Funk was a brand new thing ,, its conception of a perfect bass

saw in its birth vision

 

a balanced coustom bass, like their clothes, sperate looking

 

Twin Octaves ,, like stanley clarke ,, makes it easier to play the bass solo of eg ? Brazilian Love Affair  

 

Finally

 

The Fender Bass was so strongly connected to Pop music & Rock Bands / Punk we would not even touch them ,,

sometimes we would look just to see if fender made a twin octave bass yet

to us a bass ending at Eb sucked

circa 1976

the 1st bass i used ,, not owned

had flat wound strings as standard

was used by owner for reggae ,,

nb, its not a (pop band/ rock band) Fender

i leaerned how to pop the strings on this ,,, but had yet to see thumb & pop

Just now, Bean9seventy said:

Nope ,, ;D

 

tho we accept the rabbit hole ,, insomuch as

Mark King worked in a top shop so "like you say" noticed

no pick up on fender sales ,, "all" the alternatives were checked "seriously out instead

 

the basic reason Guys,, ""Drum roll"" ,,  was cosmetic ,,,

 

its why i spent at lot of time chasing the marcus miller spate to its origin

Brit Funk in its purest form is born on the dance floor Right ? 

& these Jazzy Funky Soul Guys had rules ,, so

1st , since Brit Funk was a brand new thing ,, its conception of a perfect bass

saw in its birth vision

a balanced coustom bass, like their clothes, sperate looking

Twin Octaves ,, like stanley clarke ,, makes it easier to play the bass solo of eg ? Brazilian Love Affair  

Finally

The Fender Bass was so strongly connected to Pop music & Rock Bands / Punk we would not even touch them ,,

sometimes we would look just to see if fender made a twin octave bass yet

to us a bass ending at Eb sucked

Just now, skankdelvar said:

 

Was it because this was the period when lots of players were switching to Arias and Yamahas and other non-Fender stuff?

Nope ,, ;D

tho we accept the rabbit hole ,, insomuch as

Mark King worked in a top shop so "like you say" noticed

no pick up on fender sales ,, "all" the alternatives were checked "seriously out instead

the basic reason Guys,, ""Drum roll"" ,,  was cosmetic ,,,

its why i spent at lot of time chasing the marcus miller spate to its origin

1 minute ago, Steve Browning said:

 

I'm just interested in what you were playing and the gigs you were doing. You seem to have an interesting history. I was into a band called Upp at this kind of time. No slapping involved, so not really anything relevant to the thread (and Stephen Amazing - bass player - used a Jazz with flats.

 

No, an idea of what you were using would be interesting. It could have been an Audition but that's unimportant.

yeah man i read that ,, & that is what we are doing ,, walking through. gear

Q why Fenders were never the gear of choice for the early funk boppers

with examples 

4 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Good - there were several (probably 10 others) - the lead singer of one was Jaki Graham who became famous as a solo R and B singer in the 80s. Another similar was Ruby Turner though she was more traditional 60s R and B. Another local funk band, Rainmaker, was the support act on Stanley Clarke’s first tour - and yes when we heard Schooldays for the first time, and live - I was blown away by the bass sound and playing (pity he dropped and broke his double bass though……..)!! 
 

However the Brit funk thing was based firmly in the south east and grew out of the dance scene - that was part of the initial audience for bands like Freeze and Level 42 - the jazz funk fans embraced Level 42 also though 😏

with all that said & agreed / or not  ,,,, those jazzy dizzy disco funky guys some actually Owned marcus miller as you call him on the floors IN 78 , backed by robbie vencent as lonnie liston smith would sometimes go to Demark Street , as bass players ,

the younger crew like myself were now looking for our own bass , fed up of bass hoping , & as i say ,, walked away from Fenders,, as tho they were not even in the shop , Fenders were never on the shopping list 

Just now, Steve Browning said:

@Bean9seventycan you tell us a bit about your history and gear? You will probably say you already have but I'd be interested to see it all in one, precise post (which reads as an insult but isn't meant to be).

my gear history is not pro & great , never played any kind of fender until 1991 not even a copy,,  

in those days you got a deal ,, "they" would indorse pro gear & know how 

its like in the 70s you did not need qualifications to work,

, you did not need "all the pro gear" to get a deal ,

Fender Basses were never an instrumental we would rate >>

2 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

Back then, in the 70's?  Two Jazz Basses (fretted and fretless). In 1979, I also acquired a Musicman. Plus I had an Unknown Double Bass passed down to me.

All long gone now. The above were taken over by Gas for a while.

did you start learning piano other instrument ?

were there other people you knew who played these obscure LPs & other musicians in the nearby area

did you go on to get or to almost get a record deal  

6 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

 

 

 

 

SE17 (1TE).

& What bass did you have ?

2 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

There were signed funk bands from outside of London - this band missed their big break (booked for TOTP) - Elvis died two days before and the whole music industry recast itself in tribute mode for a month. They were a great funk band. 
 

https://www.birminghammusicarchive.com/muscles/

i am not ruling out obscure groups probably world wide who dropped into dance music , yet its besides the point ,, as the forum is trying focus on specific aspects ,,

why not Fender

& the bonus rabbit hole remembering mark king playing bass in macaris

at this point ,, the marcus miller rabbit hole filling up the pages has become a major diversion BRB

3 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

Back then? No, not Peckham. Top end of the Old Kent Road, near the Bricklayers Arms roundabout.

 

on The "Bermondsey" side or Walworth side ? as you know its either SE1 or SE17 

2 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

@Bean9seventy I think there are three strands of people discovering this jazz funk explosion of music (which was alongside disco) in the late 70s. 
 

1) Specialist DJs and the pro dancers/ solo dancers at specific dance clubs and events - including the weekender gatherings etc etc - DJs would use 12” singles and often rare or new ones. 

 

2) Jazz funk and jazz rock fans who bought albums, generally not singles. 
 

3) The traditional night clubs were using a combination of hit disco and more obscure 12” stuff - the DJs in the night clubs probably picked up on this due to attendance at 1) and knowledge of 2). However tracks like Do What You Want To Do by T Connection were played regularly at the standard night clubs I went to at the time (they were great - high volume, thunderous Stanley Clarke-like bass).

 

Most open minded musicians were influenced by this music, including playing slap and pop (although I initially developed a percussive fingerstyle approach to it - similar to what Stan Sergeant uses now). 

 

I was in camp 2 and 3, and also a bass player, who started with rock, slid into jazz rock and with a tendency towards R and B - so embraced all this fabulous bass work with open arms. I also started buying 12” singles in the late 70s to be the ‘club mix’ which invariably had more instrumental solos and breakdowns. 
 

It is also true that you would be unlikely to get past an audition on bass guitar without playing some slap in the early 80s. Anyone using a Precision with flats (there weren’t any in my experience, and hardly any playing any form of Fender bass) would be considered very much yesterday’s men - they may get with in 60s tribute (very much for the older audiences at that time - much had yet to become acceptable vintage and nostalgia, and like Fender custom colour instruments, very much naff apart from dedicated collectors). We have to wait for the mid 90s Oasis type stuff for vintage to suddenly and gradually become the norm. 

WELL you are listening to camp Zero Before the big bang

we know the songs DJs who why where they were dropped even who personally Owned Them outright

the bass players you had to see slap to know how to play it, 

the story is drifting away ,, again its level42 before level 42 ,

no reply to why "Fender was never the face of early brit funk

even tho the heading chapter has been struck

15 hours ago, lowdown said:

 

Nothing to shout about, I know, but in 1978, I was working on Cruise ships around the Caribbean. We (onboard musicians) often, when ashore in Miami, would drink with American musicians in local bars.

They played and introduced music to us to listen to, which we then picked up from local shops to bring home. Or on occasion, even better, New York record stores.

One of the albums, was the one in question, 'Streamline'. You know nothing about me so please, do not question my honesty when I'm just trying to converse musically with you.

 

Because of the Web, listening to music is instant these days. Back then, it wasn't.

If you were over in the States, or you mates came back with records, you got to hear less chart orientated American music a little earlier. 

 

Probably earlier than people (like yourself) who marched up and down Denmark Street or, danced around sparkly handbags with their mates, wearing Platforms and Flares, during Discotheque competitions in 1978,

 

Enjoy the New Year celebrations, Ol' Bean...

 

👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the reason why i ask where you from ,,

if you played an instrument bass UK ? in 78 worked on a ship went to miami knew all about marcus miller from obscere LPs, mixed with americans all in 78 & you are not from london ? ,,, & already semi pro ? ,, you would be a person who would of at least got a record deal, just like that ?

they used to throw record deals at slap bass / groove players in 78

if you were not from london you also would have been more with it than frankie goes to holly wood, as nothing much was going on outside of london, as explained ,

so ,, 

15 hours ago, lowdown said:

 

Nothing to shout about, I know, but in 1978, I was working on Cruise ships around the Caribbean. We (onboard musicians) often, when ashore in Miami, would drink with American musicians in local bars.

They played and introduced music to us to listen to, which we then picked up from local shops to bring home. Or on occasion, even better, New York record stores.

One of the albums, was the one in question, 'Streamline'. You know nothing about me so please, do not question my honesty when I'm just trying to converse musically with you.

 

Because of the Web, listening to music is instant these days. Back then, it wasn't.

If you were over in the States, or you mates came back with records, you got to hear less chart orientated American music a little earlier. 

 

Probably earlier than people (like yourself) who marched up and down Denmark Street or, danced around sparkly handbags with their mates, wearing Platforms and Flares, during Discotheque competitions in 1978,

 

Enjoy the New Year celebrations, Ol' Bean...

 

👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, lowdown said:

 

Nothing to shout about, I know, but in 1978, I was working on Cruise ships around the Caribbean. We (onboard musicians) often, when ashore in Miami, would drink with American musicians in local bars.

They played and introduced music to us to listen to, which we then picked up from local shops to bring home. Or on occasion, even better, New York record stores.

One of the albums, was the one in question, 'Streamline'. You know nothing about me so please, do not question my honesty when I'm just trying to converse musically with you.

 

Because of the Web, listening to music is instant these days. Back then, it wasn't.

If you were over in the States, or you mates came back with records, you got to hear less chart orientated American music a little earlier. 

 

Probably earlier than people (like yourself) who marched up and down Denmark Street or, danced around sparkly handbags with their mates, wearing Platforms and Flares, during Discotheque competitions in 1978,

 

Enjoy the New Year celebrations, Ol' Bean...

 

👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

did you used to live in peckham ? where you from on average ?

4 hours ago, lowdown said:

  

 

I got "Streamline" (Lenny White) in 1978 because I had heard Marcus on 'Lady Madonna'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the tunes you picked are probably back catalogued, even norman jay would agree

there 1000s of 90s DJs who do it, back catalogue

for someone to have brought this LP in 78 in the UK ? hmm?

they wouldn't have brought it just for miller & bass , sorry ,the timeline is wrong

only collectors brought these obscure LPs in the 70s

they would often be involved with DJs & radio," invicta "

they may know "a" bass player/ band  

in 78 ? there only about 10 street bass players at "funk level" UK wide & worrying learning & listening to marcus in "78" has not happened yet, sorry

that's from the guy that actually "owned space princess" on the floors & plays bass

the end

3 hours ago, lowdown said:

 

 

 

Once again, my post was: "Marcus was certainly known in New York during the mid to late 70's."

 

 

 

the reason why this Spate is taking place is because i clearly point out no one had marcus miller on their radar yet. during the funk bass out break that happened on the streets in the UK ,, miller didn't quite exist yet, popswell was the main man, he tones jazzy loose & wild 

there were no bass players following marcus miller,yet, they may know the bass lines, i did, i literally Owned "Space Princess" UK 

yet his CLASSIC bass lines stood together with other bass lines ,, at that time,

robbie vincent owns lonnie liston smith outright in the battle of DJs,,

even george michael gets influenced by LLsmith, 

then miller explodes when he leaves LLS & joins Steve Gadd Dave Grusin etc ,,

& goes freelance,

thus the chase for stack, top end, new york GPR jazz slap tone begins,

the miller sound completely takes over, bar bernard edwrads

the quest for Popswell fades,

popswell actually drops out of contention soon after, with a sting in the tail tho

& that is that ,,

Just now, Reggaebass said:

That makes me want to slap some bass, but I’m useless at it 😁

nah ,

st lucians often laugh after they slap

bajans take it too seriously

jams don't go near slap they thinks skunk

& the best are granadians

❤️

5 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

hard to say , something like close to this

 

so, back to reasons why it was never fender ,, relpy only please

remembering mark king playing bass in Macaris ,, rabbit hole bonus

9 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

That’s a great Bassline, What was the original Bean 🙂

hard to say , something like close to this

3 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

The first time I heard of Marcus Miller was on this track and the album Adrenaline of 1979 by David Bendeth - there are several tracks which sound like Level 42 before Level42.

 

https://youtu.be/_jzoogxoYWg

David Bendeth , 1st dropped UK by Chris Hill at Purley all dayer, we went back stage with  Light of the World that day , Dan Hartman was also 1st dropped @Purley

these top DJs own certain tunes

2 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

i was perhaps the very 1st person (non DJ) to have this tune in the UK  (omg)

it was given to me as part of my winnings in a dance competition 1st place

 

space princess was "the record the week" & it was played in the final dance off ok, 

 

& i am "still" telling you no one was talking about marcus miller in the UK

 

roy ayres, yes 

lonnie liston smith, yes

ronnie laws, yes

others , yes

 

marcus exploded in ? 1980, the end

The Janek Gwizdala syndrome

if you Read the books it tells you ron carter played say 1973 ?

but in the UK  no one even gets "into" that music untill 1977

yes, you have return to forever & the "mishogogevos orcester"

& the jazz heads, who were dinosaurs by the 1970s

but then Disco explodes & that is when the world starts taking note

dancing 1st

listening 2nd

trying to play it, 3rd

by 1980 everything is being back catalogued named ledgered understood

bass guitar explodes like never before, Slap went Gamma Viral

42 years later & forget me nots sounds like it was made yesterday 

most bass players who play it weren't even born when it came out ,

On 27/12/2021 at 18:00, lowdown said:

 

Good luck getting that over to Cryptic Meg.

 

 

I believe Lonnie Liston Smith met Marcus during Jingle sessions or some club gig, mid 70's. Marcus was certainly known in New York during the mid to late 70's.

 

He played on this (1978) and I believe he wrote it in 1975:

 

 

 

i was perhaps the very 1st person (non DJ) to have this tune in the UK  (omg)

it was given to me as part of my winnings in a dance competition 1st place

space princess was "the record the week" & it was played in the final dance off ok, 

& i am "still" telling you no one was talking about marcus miller in the UK

roy ayres, yes 

lonnie liston smith, yes

ronnie laws, yes

others , yes

marcus exploded in ? 1980, the end

1 minute ago, Bean9seventy said:

The reason why lenny henry never took me to brum ,, it because i would have missed it on the train & ended up in liverpool or manchester a bit

 

a big overlander

right ,, guys ,, i know there are a few recent rabbit holes & peeps putting up "they brought a Fender Bass in 1976 ,,, like a barrister i will simply let that go

sometimes these exceptions prove the point ,

so we know M.K worked in a shop , those who remember will know he would sometimes play the basses in the shop >>> a diferent rabbit hole(s)

so what is it M,K has a complete advantage of ?

1st,,  he is in a total "advanced Pro" musical enviroment

2nd,, (where we come into the frame) ,, he/they will know exactly

what kind of instruments we liked / rated

3rd ,, the basslines tunes "we knew played on bass / rated

So ,, eg guys like myself would walk right away from the Fender Basses

in fact never played "any" fender bass/ copy until 1991 ,, not even to try

so what were the reasons ,, & where are some examples ,, all coming up

after the After read ,,,, replies to this 1st page

2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

It was originally Broad St (had a Dave Hill Superyob guitar in the window for some time). It wasn’t a very big shop and they moved two or three times IIRC. 
 

Snow Hill/Constitution Hill was Yardleys (certainly till the early 80s). Imprinted in my memory as they refused to put my Acoustic 371 stack on consignment as ‘too old’ - it was about 10 yrs old at the time - I think they wanted me to trade it in as they had a stack of new Acoustic equipment. I think Musical Exchanges ended up in the Yardleys shop. 
 

This was all around the time of Level 42 being of great interest to most bass players - and so they should always be!! 😀

The reason why lenny henry never took me to brum ,, it because i would have missed it on the train & ended up in liverpool or manchester a bit

a big overlander

9 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Only trying to be helpful, you charming little man.

Lemmy is telling you you go college & learn bass with to fingers :D

The Hook