Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

Bridgehouse

⭐Supporting Member⭐
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    2,686

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    159

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Bridgehouse

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    3 hours ago, GuyR said:

    Most people who have played a good number of vintage basses seem to have had the experience of playing good ones, fantastic ones, and "dogs". Is it coincidence that it is only the fantastic ones that ever come up for sale?

    Similarly, considering how many vintage instruments have been modified/refinished/hacked about, it is quite surprising that most of the ones for sale are 100% original. 

    Caveat emptor........

     

    1 hour ago, la bam said:

    I cant think of any other industry or product that hasnt improved over the last 50 years.

    Tools, cars, motorbikes, computers, speakers, amps, phones, buildings, tv, planes, etc etc - so why wouldnt todays basses be better than ones from 50/60 years ago? 

    I think it's worth considering the quite conservative nature of musicians and instruments. 

    Look through the classifieds and you will see a large number of basses (possibly even a majority) which are based on the P and J.

    Fundamentally simple, a lot of basses today modelled after them are technologically the same. Two bits of wood bolted together with what is effectively 60 years old electronics technology. 

    That has a lot to do with taste, and what players want as the manufacturers see it. 

    I wanted a vintage Fender bass - the reason why is possibly irrelevant, but I wasn't going to get one to look at but to play. I wanted it to play well and sound great. 

    I would say I played about a dozen, all for sale. Out of those I really loved two, I thought about 4 were "meh" and the other 6 were frankly dogs. They were all about the same price.

    A different player on a different day might have tried all 12 and come to a completely different conclusion. It's an individual thing. 

    I have played some nearly new basses that I have thought of as brilliant - and some I've thought were really very disappointing. I'd say the ratio for me has been about 50/50. 

     

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

    Brilliant, thank you, just in case I ever drag myself away from modern, somewhere near 1k basses that I now usually go for.

    Depending on where it's located, I'm sure some of us vintage owners/collectors would come and look with you as well. I know I would. I may not know everything, but I've learned the obvious stuff to look for

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

    You live, you learn. Do such people lurk on Basschat?

    No, but I'll give you one for free ;)

    A good friend of mine - Feline Guitars based in Croydon. Jon really knows his stuff and he is an absolute expert and a gent. He makes the most beautiful guitars and basses, and he services a lot of guitars played by some of the worlds best - he's seen his fair share of proper authentic vintages owned by guitar heroes and expert musicians alike and he would be a good starting point..

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

    I think that feel that you mention is a very natural symbiosis that occurs once you find an instrument you truly like. Do you think part of that symbiosis may be because the instrument is vintage rather than the instrument itself having any inherent superior properties over something modern?

    I will give you two answers to that. Yes, and no.

    Yes - with a very real example. The fingerboard edges on my 64 are rolled due to years and years of play. Even when done with a tool it's not the same. It feels played in - and played in over many years.

    And no - I'm sure some of the feel is because I've bonded with it so much.

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Just now, wateroftyne said:

    And looks :-)

    True. Which was what attracted me to a vintage bass in the first place, having owned a few vintage guitars..

    My only controversial thought on vintage basses is thus: Whether it's the material, the ageing or whatever, once you find one that you really like, I think they do feel different to a more modern instrument. 

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

    I imagine you can, but that's more down to natural variance, than typical tonal characteristics of each (bear in mind this is in the context of of your reply to the point I was trying to make earlier :-))

    Yep. Agreed.

    Don't forget - even though I'm a vintage owner I'm in the "price is not proportionate to playability" camp.

    My view is simple. In a non-price based test, some will prefer a vintage, some a modern instrument. The same person might even rank a set of instruments by preference (let's say all P basses) as a vintage, then a modern, then another modern, then another vintage.

    You choose an instrument based on the sound and playability that you like. 

    I have never said that as a general rule vintages sound different to modern and are better. 

    I played 8 pre CBS jazzes and hated every single one. I tried two Pre-CBS P basses and hated them as well. I then tried the 64 I own and loved it. 

    I have had similar experiences with modern too..

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

    Are you suggesting that if you did a blind A/B sound test of any '64RI to any genuine '64, you'd be able to tell which is which..?

    Not at all. I suggested that we each hear things differently and some perceived differences can be apparent to some people but not others.

    However, I reckon that I could probably (and I stress probably) tell my 64 from my AVRI in a blind test. 

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

    I meant above and beyond any usual natural differences you'd find in any Precisions. I should have made that clear.

     

    2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

    All basses sound different when played on their own.

    And they all sound like bass guitars in the band mix.

    Of course. 

    But it does depend on your own ears. Some people hear differences that others don't. Some sounds are more pleasing to some and not to others - if not there would be one bass design with one set of pickups and one amp. ;)

     

    Mind you - as a guitar type too, you should see how this debate goes when it's guitars and not basses you're discussing.. sheesh!

     

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

    Yes, I think this is the perfect summation of the thread really.

    In answer to your original question, then yes. As I posted a little while ago, if you take out the price and the "snake oil" then choosing one over the other is no different to choosing one new brand over another. Some will like one, others a different one. Purely based on subjective likes.

     

    The reason this subject comes up so much though is the muddy waters created by collectibility, price, reverence and a market which is essentially not based on the instruments playability or sound.

    Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I have recently acquired a 2009 AVRI 62 Precision. It's the same colour as my original 64 Precision. Same dimensions, same nut width, same neck profile. 

    Let's just split out a couple of points and give my prespective on things.

    1. If we take out prices, and age, and I walked into a room and was asked to pick one of the two, I would pick the 64. Why? How it feels to play, how it balances on the strap, and how it sounds through a variety of amps. That's a simple A/B comparison as done in real life. They are close - damn close. But the 64 edges it for me in those areas. Someone else might feel the complete opposite.

    So if we all had a chance to try a range of basses old and new, vintage and modern, I suspect some would go away with a new one, some with a vintage. 

    And herein lies the problem. The vintage vs new debate is often clouded by the issue of price - if price were at parity, it would be a question like any other A vs B - some will like one, some another. 

    Now, pre-CBS fenders probably did use a slightly better wood - often it was aged as stocks were available - not so much these days. Mine has a braz rosewood board - it feels nicer than Indian to play. Similarly, tools and techniques differed - I'd say the 64 has a bit more "character" compared to the AVRI.

    But,

    2. Pricing. Is a vintage bass worth what it's often advertised for? Only the purchaser can decide that. Scarcity, age, uniqueness, history etc come into it, but ultimately it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. I don't think price is a fair indicator of relative quality as an instrument for a vintage bass - the price often doesn't reflect it's relative "quality" compared to a modern equivalent. 

    The vintage market is difficult. Mainly because it's now more about collecting and possessing rather than playing or how it sounds. It's sad, but it's the way it is. 

    My conclusion: is my vintage 64 better than my AVRI? Yes, for me. Is it worth the massive difference in price? Proabably not. But maybe for others in it's collectible value rather than it's value as an instrument. 

    • Like 1
×
×
  • Create New...