MananaMan

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='249216' date='Jul 27 2008, 10:56 PM']Is piss taking and random shenanigans allowed?[/quote] i'd generally encourage it, but then thats me,and I'm a sardonic tit at best... Main thing is: don't stress it (easier said than done!) and relax. If you can play the songs in rehearsal you can play them on stage. Everything else is just your mind messing with you!

Hmmm.... I dont get it. Standard (as far as it gets...) Alembic c. $8000. How's this one 4 times the cost? I too am bemused by where the extra money goes. Its not on the wood, the design is pretty standard (apart from the shape) and the electronics can't be THAT expensive... Strikes me as overpriced bling for peoplle with more money than sense... I wish I earned enough to have £16,000 of tax to deduct!

had an amusing one at a gig in preston one time... Punter (staring at my pedals) : That was really nice when you used that delay. Me : Really? I don't have a delay pedal. Punter : No, you do. It was in the song that went.... Me : No, I don't have a delay pedal. Punter : Yeah, I heard it! What's that one then? Me : Distortion. Punter : Whats that one then? Me : Distortion. Punter : OK, whats that one then? Me : Distortion. You can see where that's going. Sound engineer at The Cavern in Liverpool was also class. SE : Can I have your clean sound? Me : (Horribly filty valve OD noises) SE : Do you call that clean? Me (with evil glint in my eye) : Do you call that dirty?

[quote name='OldGit' post='240999' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:02 PM']No 'cos people have to decide what they spend their valuable time on.[/quote] Yeah, I see your point, but then we' were talking about cover bands taking potential audiences from originals bands. These people are already going out to the pub, better (in my eyes) they go support original music than not. Of course, better to support live music than anything else but then I'm just arguing with myself... [quote]The problem is when people think the other way around; that an original song is automatically better than a tired old hack like Mustang Sally simply because it's original, nothing else.[/quote] No, Mustang Sally is a great song and probably better than 99.9% of all songs ever written (especially if you include all songs written by bands that aren't popular). Not sure if it was written for The Commitments, or if its an older tune, either way I'd rather see it done by the people I associate it with most - The Commitments. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or a tw@. Probably the second methinks.

"Insylum" by Oxbow

Hmmm.... some interesting points there folks! OG, if I was booking all the venues in this fair land, the one and only decision on whether to book a band is this : are you good? By that, I mean, do you write good songs (doesn't have to be mind-altering stuff, just songs that hang well together with a bit of thought put in), and do you play well together. I'm always about the vibe, man. Certainly I think I've got a reasonable ear, had many bands through the door that went on to much greater things, many more that didn't but all of them were very well received by the punters. Our methodology thus far has been simple: every time you get up on stage, blow everyone else playing there out of the water. Or at least, try. Sounds simple put like that, but its all about crafting the sound and feel of every part of everybody's playing so that everything works together. Get the dynamics right, get the groove right, get the mood of each and every f****ng note right. Get the balance between each player right, in each section of every song. And if its not PERFECT, don't play it. Ever. That's what I mean about hard work! Obviously, we've not done all of this in a mathematical fashion because then there'd be no soul, its just something that we've evolved over time and a lot of rehearsals / beer / arguments. Its been a long slog (there's one song in the set that, me and the singer worked out the other day, we reckon we've played something like 1000 times in the last three years...) but I think its been worth it - and thats not a statement or arrogance, thats a statement of fact (yeah, fact as I see it, big-headed tw@). Come and see us play live if you don't believe me! Clive, you've missed my point totally mate. Many people all over the world have a love of music that's good. There's quite a lot of them over here. My point is that its a cultural thing g that people need approval to enjoy music, and need to feel that its OK to jump around at a party if they feel like it. That's what I was bemoaning. Believe me, there's plenty of bands I've had the severe misfortune to have worked with that I'd rather see taken for a long walk off a short cliff above a piranha infested acid bath, but that's beside the point. If promoters were more discerning in what they booked, no-one would ever know these acts existed as they would be sat in their bedrooms rehearsing away until they were good enough to get out in the public eye. Its also the fault of TV shows such as X-Factor that have made people believe that mediocre performances are OK as long as you prat about a bit and look pretty / cool / whatever. For the people responsible for this brand of telly, I advocate the use of the Final Solution. Seriously. Bassic, would more bums not be on seats if every band was bloody amazing? If you knew for a fact that you could go to your local venue tonight and watch a band that were every bit as good as, I dunno, Black Crowes or whatever tickles your fancy, just you hadn't bought their albums yet, wouldn't you be there? Why are songs by famous people automatically better than songs by someone you've never heard? I honestly think I've got more CDs at home that I love by unsigned or unheardof bands that I've booked or seen or played with than artists with a deal. I bet you'd really enjoy most of them as well! At the end of the day, I think I really mean to attack the cult of celebrity rather than anything else. People in cover bands - if you could get the same money playing songs that you or a member of your current cover band had written (and that you had more of a personal engagement with), wouldn't you rather do that?

[quote name='OldGit' post='238961' date='Jul 14 2008, 10:13 AM']The 300 people packing the party band gig on a Friday and Saturday and bopping to Mustang Sally are not necessarily going to come out on a Tuesday to the same venue to watch a band playing originals they have never heard before, no matter how good they are (because, of course, [b]they will have no idea how good they are unless someone tells them[/b].) A covers band playing Mustang Sally or a tribute band is a safe option, they know what they will get, even if they have never heard of the band.[/quote] I think the main thrust of my point got lost t in a swathe of vitriol... Its the section in bold that is, to my mind, the most important thing here. There are enough quality bands, even enough quality original bands (possibly...), to fill all the venues in the country every night. The reason they aren't booked is that most promoters seem to run about booking anything they can that looks and sounds like whatever's popular at the moment to cash in on current trends. This is because British people seem to be petrified of music they've not heard of before. For example, I worked as Promotions Manager for the venue I worked at, I could book five weeks straight of top quality acts that were as diverse as they were excellent to watch in both performance and quality of song writing - regardless of genre - and have no more than thirty people turn up, but book some bland talentless pricks that have the right designer and haircuts to be in NME / Radio 1 that week and I've got queues running round the block... I can't help but think that covers bands that play the pub and club circuit (I'm not doubting the value of covers bands for weddings / corporate do's - the right thing for the right place) are the live band equivalent of Walkabout - churning out lowest common denominator stuff that totally devalues the "traditional boozer" that is originals bands - some of them might well be slightly dingy and scary, but they all have their own charm. If these things didn't exist then the public would still hanker after live music, and they'd be happy to go and investigate whatever is out there. Or maybe I'm just an optimist.

Hi OldGit et al, Thanks for the welcome. Been floating around on the forum for a while, never really bothered to get involved... not sure why, just lazy I guess. In response to the (somewhat patronising, if you'll beg my pardon) suggestion of running the WMCs for 2 years minimum, been there, done that - although I've always played originals. When I was 16 I was playing most weekends on the pub & club circuit pk it playing a 50/50 mix of covers and originals, we built several sets for various gigs and were earning £250 a show minimum. Did that for a couple of years, then everyone went off to Uni. When I was at Uni I did the whole student rock band thing for two years, playing mostly originals with the odd super-cheesy cover thrown in for "crowd pleasing" effect (Video Killed The Radio Star.... yuck!) Eventually I got sick of playing music that had no meaning, it was making me feel totally at a loss musically (similar to ARGH's current dilemma, see other thread about that...). As I'd trained as a sound engineer I started doing sound full time and quit the band stuff. I worked at a local music venue, original music only 5 nights a week. In the early days there were some pretty ropey acts on, but it got better as they built up a reputation with the booking agents. Three years on from that, I worked out I'd seen something like 1500-2000 bands play, and I had developed a keen desire to play again... just as my mate's band folded, I knew he was a great frontman, we started the band the same week and never looked back. (for those interested, www.myspace.com/mrmanana) What I've found is that it takes great songs to get a crowd going. Nothing more, nothing less. We don't have a "show" to be precise, we are all into the music and kind of bop along at the appropriate moments, but the set is powered by the songs, the sound of the band and the quality of performance. It always makes me cringe when a band that is light on quality songs tries to make up for it with some rock posturing they've learnt from watching DVDs... I have total faith in the band I'm playing in, we're great and nd slowly but surely we'll show the rest of the country that, even though at the moment it seems like we're doing it one person at a time! What is annoying though is that people that play in covers bands that probably don't have to put half the work in that we do are going out and getting 300 quid a night. Having worked the pubs and clubs as a sound engineer for a local PA company I've also seen a lot of cover / tribute bands some of them have been pretty good and most of them are lovely people. I just don't see any real artistic merit in it. I don't think you can really count the Stax / Motwon bands as they were formed to play music written for them to play backing for whichever "face" they were promoting at the time. As for the Stones and Presley etc., they were bringing "black:" music of America to the white masses at a very different time in the world. I doubt any band playing a cover of Welcome To The Jungle can be said to be bringing a new and unique musical style to the WMC! Its a very very different kettle of m musical fish.

ARGH, sounds to me mate that you're going about the whole originals thing in the wrong way. The band I play in at the moment, we got started through all being mates and hanging out a lot - it helped that I was doing sound and another lad was bart manager at the local rock pit, but the points still valid. I think you need to hang out with some similarly-frustrated musicians that are into similar stuff, then just hope you find some people you have a genuine connection with, then you can start makin some music! I think your approach to things has been tainted by the whole covers side of things - in a wholly commercial venture such as a covers band, things are very much mercenary in nature - you go in there with a mission statement and business plan and crank it out. (Thats not to say there's no room for friendships and banter etc., but if you aint up to scratch there's only one way its gonna end...) In my experience, the originals thing has to start with a great rapport between everyone - not necessarily chummy bestest pals, but there's gotta be a vibe - that leads to sparks when writing and when on stage. When auditioning new folks for bands, I've always gone on personality over ability - no amount of strings / flashy playing / great gear is going to help you when you're 10 days on the road, not eaten real food for a week and stuck in traffic for 5 hours in 30 degree heat and no air conditioning. Maybe I'm weird, but thats what does it for me. ability / gear etc. can be worked on, but if you're a c**t then you're stuck that way for life! Not that that applies to you, I'd say. You seem like the right person for many bands - brash, f***ed up, in-yer-face and most of passionate to the hilt about music. Don't stop, keep going. Find some cool people and get jammin! Oh yeah, and I have also found the vast majority of people in bands from the general Leeds area to be total scenester pricks interested only inlicking the arse of whatever music rag is currently coolest to offer free reach arounds to. I can recommend Tamworth (Club Vertigo), Oldham (Jackson's Pit) and Burnley (Sanctuary) from personal experience to be cool places to hang out, lots of friendly people about.

+1 to that Jase, both on the original and covers scene there are far too many utter crap bands out there clogging up promoter's time and gig schedules. Its unfortunate that quality is such a subjective thing... I'd also argue (being a staunch supporter of original live music) that covers bands do more harm to original music than crap bands ever could. I know I'm probably going to insult most people on this board at this point, so let me add a disclaimer : In no way do I object to people playing music for a living (whatever music that may be), nor do I doubt the musical ability or creative talent of anybody playing in a cover / tribute act. I also understand that there is a great desire for such acts in the UK today, so i do not blame anyone for persuing this lucrative avenue. Having said that, I personally find it sickening to the pit of my stomach that bands are going out and playing venues that, in days gone past, would normally offer original acts more financially viable places to play using hardly any imagination to trundle out a set of other people's music. £150 for a gig is de-valuing live music? Jesus! The last tour I played took in 8 gigs in 9 days, I think we got paid something like £250 TOTAL for the full run. That was with 5 of us travelling around the country in a diesel-hungry van. I think we broke even on diesel, just, and that was the most financially successful run we've done in over three years of touring. I think its just such a safe and easy way of playing music for a living, you've got the entire history of music to pick a cracking set from, and the benefit of having everyone know your songs the second you hit the first chord. If anything, I think it should be the other way round, with the original acts being paid a lot more than the cover bands that really don't have that much work to do to make an entertaining evening for the crowd. Not that I think its easy to pick a covers set, just its a lot easier to do so when you don't have to come up with all the material yourself. It just plays on the trend thats being going on for years now of re-hashing past glories rather than investigating new talent - when you see every band from 1999 backwards that even had the slightest of hits going back out on tour to scrape the barrel of their small chart success. Bands such as OPM (charted in the late 90's with the truly awful single "Heaven is a Half Pipe" going out at 400-600 quid a night... WTF??? Overall its a cultural thing here in Britain where people aren't remotely interested in a band unless they've got songs they know - its a fear of change and newness, but is certainly something that's perpetuated by the relatively cheap and easy availability of bands all to happy to cash in on this cultural eddy that Britain is currently stuck in. OK, rant over. Once again, this is all just personal opinion, so take what I've said with a pinch of salt - I am both a bitter originals player and a cynically twisted live music promoter that refuses to book cover bands on the general principles outlined above. Some discussion on the relative merits of playing covers / tribute stuff is probably needed to reassure my miserable soul, and also if anyone can honestly justify it morally I'd be interested to hear your points of view! Right, bring on the flame... :ph34r:

Hi, I have a Gibson Victory Bass Standard (1981) I bought the bass last year, fully intending to use it as my main bass. However, there's a bit of a weird problem that I've never encountered before... When playing the A string, the output of the string is much lower when played on a downstroke rather than an upstroke, roughly half as loud... As I use a plectrum, this is much more of a problem than the guy I bought it from would have had as I believe he used his fingers rather than a plectrum. At the moment, this is making the bass almost totally unplayable in a live situation, so I'm stumped! I've stripped the bass and rebuilt it electrically, I can't find any problems with the wiring and when played on the upstroke there's no problem with the string's output... What is causing this problem?!?!?!