DavidMcKay

I remember when I got my first ACG - second hand naturally as I couldn't afford new - and I was worried that it would look or feel 'hand made', either the full guitar or certain components/parts. I had previously had a couple of Tanglewood Overwaters and a Hohner Jack so I certainly knew what kind of finish to expect on a mass produced instrument. Well to be honest I was completely blown away by the ACG. First thing that struck me was the feel of the neck. It had a sort of Matt finish and it felt as if it had been oiled and polished as opposed to being lacquered and varnished. Even just to the touch if felt really nice. Now I know I am being highly subjective here, but for me it illustrated the quality of finish you get from a good custom guitar, which in turn makes you feel good about the guitar - which can only help your playing. Having messed about with many a bass in the guitar shops of Glasgow there aren't many I've seen that can touch that type of finish. And when I see players paying £600 to £700 for their instruments I do wonder if they have even considered second hand boutique/custom. I'm not trying to bash the 'big boys' here. They've earned their place competing in the open market.

I had to turnip the volume to hear it right.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1444861548' post='2886889'] I've never even considered something like this. I really wouldn't know what I'm buying or recognise any particular luthier by name so for me i just read any ad as 'unknown make'. If that is true of other people then that's one reason for the lack of interest. I guess new they'd be out of my price bracket so there has been no point in finding out about something I'd never be able to afford. I wnder how many bargains have passed me by.... [/quote] Me too Phil. I could never afford new - but I could afford second hand. And that is where knowing names, luthiers and reputations has been important. Little bit of homework reaps dividends.

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1444860349' post='2886869'] And many with figured 'coffee table' tops....and fancy woodwork...and then there's the crazy shapes (eg Ritter) and the FAT neck profiles (eg Spector)..... I guess I just like 4 strings/ slim profile narrow necks and plain colours...and I guess I'm not alone. [/quote] Yep - I get that.

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1444859571' post='2886861'] Bespoke is just that though...the original buyer's specification...one man's heaven is another man's hell. The one thing I notice with a lot of high end boutique basses is what appalling taste the original purchaser must've had...rarely do any appeal aesthetically. With the 'usual suspects' you know what you're getting. [/quote] I get that for the more 'way out' specced guitars but a lot of the boutique basses are a combination of high end components configured to suit, as opposed to crafted by angels from 'golden unicorn horns' and such like!

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1444859086' post='2886851'] It's like any other market....the high end stuff depreciates quicker than the mid range stuff. Take cars for instance ,luxury top of the range Mercs and BMW 6 or 7 series, even the likes of Ferrari and lamborghini take huge depreciation hits as soon as they hit the road. Why should basses be any different? [/quote] I guess I'm saying that the bespoke stuff bottoms out lower than the trade names / usual suspects. Seems like people are prepared to pay a bit more for 'labels' than a comparable custom job once they are in the second hand bracket.

Just checked it out. Love Phyllis!

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1444857810' post='2886832'] Seems like an injustice when you have skilled craftsmen and artisans toiling over their creations, perfecting them into individual and unique masterpieces which when resold achieve significantly less than their original prices. As an example, I've recently seen ACGs being sold for £600-800 here - I've no idea how many hours Alan puts into each of his creations but the resale prices suggest that his work is valued at less than I pay my local mechanic to service my car. I'm lucky enough to own several bespoke basses and I appreciate and acknowledge the skill and craftsmanship that goes into each, however the resale values of these are probably far less than a Fender/Musicman/ Warwick which are mass produced by people who take less care and have little appreciation of the subtleties of their design. To the bespoke custom builder it's their art, to employees at Fender, and the like, it's their job. I remember how poor the build quality of 70s Fenders was, however these now command many hundreds of pounds despite this. Yet I eventually (after several months of trying to sell it here) traded my hand made bespoke Shuker for a value of around £800 - it was superior to 99.999% of mass produced Fenders which fetch significantly more. I struggle to understand this. To Alan, Bernie Goodfellow, Jens Ritter [i]et al[/i], I salute you - you create instruments that inspire me (and hopefully many others) in a way that mass produced instruments never can and I thank you for that. [/quote] Hi The Greek Your comments certainly resonate with me - but let me play Devil's Advocate. The original luthiers sold the instruments for a tidy sum - they got what they were asking for. What does it matter that the second hand market doesn't realise anything close to this? No skin off their (original luthier's) nose.

Fair point LukeFRC Does this suggest that if you are considering custom then you better be in it for the long haul or else you stand to make a significant loss? I am sure many of the 'big guns' would agree with your point regarding reliability and testing.

Hi All I was chatting with a fellow BC'er and we came to the conclusion that hand-made guitars produced by expert luthiers - what you may call boutique - aren't fetching their market value when being sold, whereas the usual suspects - Musicman, Fender, and such like - always seem to do well on the For Sale thread. Do you agree with this position? If not - then why aren't the boutique guitars fetching what they should? If so - then why don't more players consider hand-made over mass produced? If we extrapolated this argument to furniture then I am sure most people would go for bespoke, hand crafted as a first choice.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1444845739' post='2886686'] Liking this [/quote] I was too at the start but it is all going wrong for me!

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1444843162' post='2886643'] Tits like coconuts [/quote] Second time in 2 days I've had to clean coffee from my computer screen!

[quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1444840563' post='2886601'] ants like cakes [/quote] I really don't get this!?!? I have a picture of Brick (from Anchorman) in my head saying this and then, and only then, does it even come remotely close to being alright. Enlighten me!!!!!!!

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1444807141' post='2886116'] No, instead please tell us what will replace the ACG. [/quote] Why - another ACG! Just agreed to buy this: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/267190-acg-gallus-5-string-bass-price-drop/page__p__2886411#entry2886411"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/267190-acg-gallus-5-string-bass-price-drop/page__p__2886411#entry2886411[/url] How chuffed am I! Granted - it may look like a small side table but it sure ain't no sideboard!

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1444775631' post='2886016'] Dave, tell me, have you won the bet yet? [/quote] No, but judging by the bird in the photograph - you have!

[quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1444840331' post='2886596'] well thats half an hour i'll never get back [/quote] Absolutely - Lowhand Mike. I've missed 2 of my kid's birthdays since starting this thread! I did try to end the thread but all my efforts seem to hit a brick Wal (groan.....).

Interesting question leschirons - especially when we already have the: [list] [*]Schecter Baron-H [*]Schecter Stiletto [*]Schecter Johnny Christ [/list] Couldn't really be any worse than those. And if people wanted to return their purchases they could be asked to return to Schmender! Yep - time for a lie down.

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1444838265' post='2886569'] So in summary... Some people like Wal's, some people don't, some dislike them with such vengence that one wonders if they are a closet Wal fan over compensating... or trying to troll their way into being invited to try one before they cast such opinionated twaddle..? who knows. I've only played two, one was badly set up, the other was lovely (and all black). All i have learned from these 5 pages is this: They are not quite as good as a pension for mitigating tax liability, probably a slightly better financial investment though, and despit the efforts of Monsanto, there are quite a large number of bees. [/quote] They do say that every day is a schoolday!

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1444830915' post='2886474'] Some people on here take themselves [b][i]way[/i][/b] too seriously.... [/quote] Moi? Serious? Some people also call me condescending (thats talking down to people...).

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1444829485' post='2886457'] There's a difference between generating lively debate and coming across as a dick. Just step back for minute and consider this. If Wal's are as shockingly awful as you make them out to be, then why the demand and longevity of the brand? You don't like them - fair enough. It doesn't make them bad instruments. Members have as much right to post in your pointless threads as you have to start them (unfortunately) in the first place. [/quote] "There's a difference between generating lively debate and coming across as a dick." So I believe - but not in your case my friend.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1444822402' post='2886343'] Wal, you asked for it..... [/quote] Yep - I'll take that one on the chin!

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1444820616' post='2886323'] I am not of'Fender'ed by anything that you have posted. Forums are all about lively debate imo 👍 [/quote] That is so bad that it is good! Thank you for the POV. I really enjoy lively debate, humour, good natured argument and such like. Shows a bit of passion. Mind you - I've been pulled up by the Mods before so it is not like I am a first o'Fender'. Sorry - couldn't help my self. Had to Jazz it up somehow.!!!!!