SteveK

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361078387' post='1980710'] Another one said something like- "I'm an electrician. Every time somebody turns on a light, i don't expect to get paid for that. Artists should stop trying to make money from work they did in the past". [/quote] The electrician has obviously not really thought it through. If he were to [b]create [/b]and fit a switch that I could sit and [i]look at/listen to[/i], that gave me hours of pleasure, that was totally unique to him... then, that might be a good comparison. Some bold assertions here... [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1361144923' post='1981956'] [b]1[/b]. So. Before recorded music, musicians got paid for their time in the same way that practically every single other profession does. [b]2.[/b] If I was an architect I wouldn't get paid everytime someone walked into a building I designed. [b]3.[/b] If I worked for Heinz and formulated a new ketchup recipie I wouldn't get paid everytime someone bought ketchup. [b]4.[/b] Musicians essentially struck a deal with the distributors that everytime they sold a unit then the musician should get a share. No other industry works in this way. This enabled some musicians to become much more wealthy than their initial efforts warranted. It allowed distinutors and the people who initially invested in the musicians to become far more wealthy than their investment risk warranted. Far more wealthy than the initial purpose of copyright which was to ensure that musicians were not taken advantage of and were able to continue making music. Making, recording and distributing music has become easier and cheaper, the rewards are becoming realigned. It's harder to make money from sales, but then it's harder for everyone to make money now, regardless of their profession. [/quote] 1. As do the majority of professional musicians today. Composers, quite rightly receive the greater rewards. 2. There are many examples of people having to pay to walk in to a building. Whether the architect is part of the profit sharing would be something for him to negotiate. 3. Then, don't work for Heinz. If you create your own sauce and work to get it in the stores, then you will most likely be paid for every jar sold. That's how it works. 4. Simply, not true!

I'm sure I read somewhere Boss ME-8B

[quote name='hunt the shunt' timestamp='1361034549' post='1980146'] Has this replaced the other thread? [/quote] It looks that way. I only caught Difford & Tilbrook doing Please Please Me... well, at least they attempted it... if I was the uncharitable type I would describe it as 'totally vibeless' [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1361021854' post='1979888'] the whole musical nostalgia thing is hugely depressing. Move on now please. [/quote] This may come as a surprise, but it's perfectly possible to 'move on' and still appreciate The Beatles, and what they did. [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1361024186' post='1979927'] they wrote some great songs, but I find the idea that there has been little progress since them bizarre. [/quote] This was a problem in the other Beatles thread - statements seemingly plucked from the air. Has anybody actually said 'there has been little progress since them'? IAC what does 'Progress' actually mean?

School Days was considered to be a bit of a SC classic. Haven't played it for years, so not sure how it stands up today.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360968151' post='1979355'] I could argue on my avatars artistic merit as to why it is better but in keeping with the way this thread seems to have gone ...........[b]BECAUSE I'M RIGHT AND THEREFORE I SAID SO[/b]!!!!!!!!!! [/quote] Now it makes sense [quote name='wombatboter' timestamp='1360970870' post='1979392'] I sang "Sheladooyeah yeah yeah".. [/quote]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360934902' post='1978570'] So no one willing to jump in and claim that the Beatles output compositionally surpassed all the Motown output then? Interesting.... [/quote]I wouldn't draw any conclusions from a lack of response. The thread is 25 pages now, possibly many have said all they have to say on the subject. [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360936933' post='1978635'] So for you Ob-La-Di trumps Tears of a Clown? Wow......... [/quote]With respect, probably not your most considered post.

Not so keen on the demo, but the finish on the Corvette looks quite lovely. Warwick do some stunning finishes. BTW Is it my imagination, or has a post or 2 been deleted? Didn't someone else [i]post then delete[/i] a week or so ago?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1360883929' post='1978032'] You lot still here?? This is (hopefully) my last contribution to this epic saga on why the Beatles became a national treasure and the biggest pop group of all time,[b] but may be ever so slightly over-rated (of course, based purely on their musical output)![/b] [/quote] I guess you missed the Howard Goodall documentary posted earlier by Fat Rich - you should take a look. It goes a little way to explaining [b]why[/b] they were rated so highly "based purely on their musical output".

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1360873045' post='1977810'] It's not that extraordinary or impossible. First three chords are essentially a ll-V-l with a tritone substitution on the V. The 4th chord is the dominant of the home chord to start the sequence again on eb. Half do the ll-V-l then come out of it on a basic, tho altered, lV-minV-l. Which crops up loads in beatles tunes. [/quote]You're quite right (although I'm not sure of your description of the Bbm). Chord substitutions are commonplace in jazz, but, I would argue, not so common in pop music of the early 60s... and coming from a 24 year old pop star. Maybe 'extraordinary' is a little ott

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360870563' post='1977758'] Shhhhhhhhh..............don't want to speak to soon but i think it's all gone quiet on the Fab Four front. [/quote]Yeah, I think Fat Rich's YT link was a kind of 'Back of the net' moment. Not surprisingly, it seems to have taken the wind out of the naysayers sails. Edited to add another Fab Factlet (for BC's younger members): Usually, the Fabs sang their own songs... whoever wrote it, sang it.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360858885' post='1977551'] [b]*my edit.[/b] Better, happy now - carry on. Though no-one's taken me up on what other tracks I should find "stand out" on the albums of theirs that I have . [/quote]Sorry, I took that as a given. As far as suggesting tracks... too much like spoonfeeding. And one man's meat 'n all that.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360854222' post='1977461'] Everyone who understands music wilh any depth and education also understands that the introduction to "If I Fell" is an masterful musical impossibility . There's no way that movement cannot come off as clumsy, yet Lennon somehow makes it a brilliant melody. Anyone who thinks they can do that if they just had a good recording studio is hopelessly oblivious. But...carry on. [/quote]Lowender, I was going to make post about that very song. Chordaly, the intro to If I Fell is quite extraordinary: Ebm / D / Db / Bbm / Ebm / D / Em / A But as with many of The Beatles songs, they make the oddest chord changes sound perfectly natural. BTW Fat Rich, nice find with the documentary. I hadn't seen it before.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360852468' post='1977409'] I've still to see any posts on here [b][i]denying[/i][/b] his subsequent influence; personally I prefer to hear it from those that he's supposedly influenced but I don't deny it's there en masse. One thing that I did find distasteful was the slagging of him for his appearance in the Olympic & Jubilee bashes. if he hadn't been there I think it would been more baffling, though it was mostly on trendy comedy shows where most of the slagging took place; Jo Brand on QI (IIRC) was one. [/quote]No, nobody has [b]denied[/b] their influence (as far as I've read), but certainly their [b]level[/b] of influence (as worded in my post) has been called in to question. But maybe instead of the words 'those that deny their level of influence' I should have used the words: [i]those that claim The Beatles are overrated[/i].

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1360799693' post='1976888'] Are you googling these or are you like a font of factlets? Well I just made this 22 pages long.. [/quote] Font of Fab Factlets!... try saying that after a beetroot shandy OK, I know this thread is on its last legs, but it does occur to me that perhaps many of those that deny The Beatles level of influence are possibly those very same people that will sigh whenever Macca's on the box, saying, "Oh, look at that smug, arrogant p**ck... and look, Jeez, he's doing that f***in' peace sign again... twat!" I think it's likely that Sir Paul's more recent offerings, appearances, TV broadcasts and inevitable accompanying interviews, has effected their appreciation, of anything that [i]'that smug, arrogant p**ck[/i]' may have ever done. Even in this thread there has been the odd post started along the lines of, [i]I can't stand Paul McCartney...[/i], and then the poster has gone on to state why he thinks The Beatles are overrated. I wonder if Sir Macca had died in a bizarre boating accident 20 or 30 years ago if the tone of this thread may have been a little different. Fab factlet: As of Sunday, Sir Paul (Macca) McCartney is the proud( ) recipient of his 17th Grammy award... but you lot knew that already.

Fab factlet: John Lennon wrote many songs about peace and love

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360754021' post='1975781'] For that alone; come the glorious day, he'll be first against the wall, bop, bop, bop. [/quote] Not a fan then(?)

Funnily enough, I got an email this morning informing me that someone had contributed to a 6 year old thread on the Warwick forum, started (by a 'gearstalker'?) in honour of one of my basses. [url="http://forum.warwick.de/showthread.php/3312-Vintage-Streamer-Stage-I-in-concert"]'ave a butchers[/url]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360714091' post='1975459'] In the first instance a good deal of luck and right place and right time about it, just like pretty much every other band that gets a really good break. After that they made the absolute most of their opportunity and ran with it. [/quote] Maybe it was luck that L&M hooked up and went on to great things, but it's equally possible that L&M hooked up, wrote a couple of songs, decided they were crap, and knocked it on the head, never to be heard of again. As far as 'right place and right time' is concerned, it's just possible that they created the right place and right time, maybe the right place and right time followed them around. There were many other bands around at the same place and at the same time. I note you use the word 'opprtunity', come on, you are allowed to use the words 'talent' or 'ability'...or did they stick in your throat . Another Fab Factlet: The Beatles and Paul McCartney were the catalyst that prompted Chris Squire to consider a career in music and take up the bass guitar.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360689550' post='1974767'] From the point of view of the pop song's evolution,[b] the real innovation was the studio usage and technology they had an almost unique level of access to at the time,[/b] the songs were just songs. They were helped no end in the arrangements of those songs by GM, who can be considered to be in the same league as Quincy Jones when it comes to musical ability. [/quote] And why did they have a 'unique level of access' to technology and 'studio usage'? Because very quickly they had proved to the 'powers that be' at Parlophone that they were worth the investment. Initially they were treated no differently to any other bands of the day. It wasn't until they started selling shed loads of records that all that changed - basically, they had [i]earned[/i] their right to more studio time - and that's how it works to this very day. Oh, and no one would be foolish enough to say that George Martin wasn't a major factor in their success.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360684274' post='1974609'] I apologise in advance for the pedantry, but... [size=4][b]Factoid[/b] [color=#333333][b]A.[/b][/color][color=#333333] [/color][color=#333333][i]n.[/i][/color] [color=#333333][b] Something that becomes accepted as a fact, although it is not (or may not be) true; [i]spec.[/i] an assumption or speculation reported and repeated so often that it is popularly considered true; a simulated or imagined fact.[/b][/color][/size] [/quote] Upon further investigation (frantic Googling), I stand corrected. I hereby wish it to be known that my 'factoids' will forthwith be known as 'Factlets' Fab factlet (doesn't have the same ring, does it?): In 1964 Manfred Mann tried to sting Paul Macca ('cause he was a Beatle) by selling him a harmonium, which was worth £8, [b]for £12[/b]... Macca said , "No ta, wack!"

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1360682093' post='1974536'] Isn't that the version off the White album, ie The Beatles rather than solo John? The YT description is quite misleading Agreed though, fantastic song [/quote] At that point they were not happy Fabs. Many of the tracks could be considered to be solo efforts. Oooh, another factoid: The opening spanish guitar phrase on Bungalow Bill, was in fact, a Mellotron... didn't influnce prog? - pah! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwby-XvzpH8[/media]

Another factoid: 'I am the Walrus' has more than a dozen different chords (including 7ths, sus4, maj7, ?/?)... yet, not one single minor chord... all major. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG73Pk1yUj8[/media]

As it happens (are you allowed to say that any more?), it was your post that made me 'disassociate' myself from that thread. Well done for manning up and apologising - maybe I'll head back over there... I feel a factoid coming on

[quote name='niceguyhomer' timestamp='1360604939' post='1973218'] That confirms to me what a complete f***wit you are [/quote] Oh dear! I was going to say that this thread has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous, but I think now is the time to disassociate myself from this thread

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360589548' post='1972794'] But give me and 3 of my musically inclined friends virtually unlimited studio time in a state of the art facility. Give us a sympathetic producer and a team of engineers ready to pander to our every sonic whim. Feed us a diet of previously unheard music and the occasional mind-altering drugs, and then outside of the studio surround us with the cream of innovative artists spanning the whole spectrum of creative endeavour, and I'm sure that we could come up with a series of albums every bit as varied and interesting as anything the Beatles did. [/quote] Sorry, but I think that post is almost on a par with:[i] I could play "Stairway To Heaven" when I was 12. Jimmy Page didn't actually write it until he was 22. I think that says quite a lot.[/i]