SteveK

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1361622004' post='1988379'] Maybe it was the BAFTAs or OSCARs or something. [/quote] I'm 99% certain it was the '1981 Daily Mirror British Rock and Pop Awards'. I seem to remember Hot Chocolate playing and, I think Madness. I also remember the crowded Green Room falling silent when David Bowie walked in - everything else is a little hazy.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361616736' post='1988262'] I heard he got a bit arsey. [/quote][i]Arse[/i] is about right! I remember when younger, 'protesting' aboard a cross channel ferry. My 'protest' necessitated the removal of my clothing and running from one end of a deck to the other... I did a lot of 'protesting' when I was younger.

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1361614737' post='1988212'] I haven't seen it in years, last one I remember was [b]Jarvis Cocker[/b] / Michael Jackson which I guess was a little while ago now [/quote]Aaah, the famous Jarvis Cocker 'protest'.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1361561734' post='1987717'] Were you in them Steve? [/quote]Well, I thought I was... but it looks as though I dreamt the whole thing

Was The Brits on? Only a couple of days ago, I I was looking for info about the 1981 British Rock and Pop awards - Can't find a thing - it's as if it's been erased from history.

Got a '71 Precision - had a Badass II on it for most of its life. The difference in sound is not detectable by 'normal' human ears. The only advantage to changing bridges: No sharp, pointy bits to scrape your hand on, and looks... the bent tin original was never going to win any awards for aesthetics. The Badass has the same adjustments as the original bridge. If I were looking at replacing the Badass I would probably go with a 'quick release' type rather than 'string through'.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1361144923' post='1981956'] 1. So. Before recorded music, musicians got paid for their time in the same way that practically every single other profession does. 2. If I was an architect I wouldn't get paid everytime someone walked into a building I designed. 3. If I worked for Heinz and formulated a new ketchup recipie I wouldn't get paid everytime someone bought ketchup. 4. Musicians essentially struck a deal with the distributors that everytime they sold a unit then the musician should get a share. No other industry works in this way. [/quote] [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1361317535' post='1984656'] 1. Yes nothing has changed there. 2. Why? He was paid a huge amount up front for his expertise and people will employ him in future to design buildings for them. 3. That's not the way it works. You're paid to design something and the manufacturer does all the advertising, testing, cooking, bottling, distribution, etc etc. You couldn't do it on the same scale without some serious backing. 4. Name one industry outside of art that does? [/quote] 1. So, we are agreed 2. Rather like a "session fee" 3. Paul Newman did rather well for his sauces and salad dressings. 4. Take a look in your local hardware/DIY store. If you invent something or create something unique, get it manufactured and get it on the shelves, as the licensor you will receive a payment for each unit sold. It's all about negotiation.

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1361281031' post='1983794'] Do you consider "a unit" as a digital copy of something that can be reproduced over and over with no extra production cost? (much like a flip?) [/quote]Yes, I do... in the same way as a downloadable book or movie, and in the future, when 3D printers are more commonplace, a downloadable light switch. (much like a flip?)??? No, nothing like a flip . Are we really comparing music to the flip of a light switch? Anyone coming to this site for the first time would think we're a bunch of nutters

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1361279626' post='1983756'] Someone designed the light switch the electrician fitted. Pay them per flip? [/quote] I'm not sure if you're having a joke or being serious. In the absence of a smiley, I'll assume that you're serious... 'Pay them per flip?'...Why? I'm not paid per pluck. But certainly, pay the designer of the light switch per unit sold.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361078387' post='1980710'] Another one said something like- "I'm an electrician. Every time somebody turns on a light, i don't expect to get paid for that. Artists should stop trying to make money from work they did in the past". [/quote] The electrician has obviously not really thought it through. If he were to [b]create [/b]and fit a switch that I could sit and [i]look at/listen to[/i], that gave me hours of pleasure, that was totally unique to him... then, that might be a good comparison. Some bold assertions here... [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1361144923' post='1981956'] [b]1[/b]. So. Before recorded music, musicians got paid for their time in the same way that practically every single other profession does. [b]2.[/b] If I was an architect I wouldn't get paid everytime someone walked into a building I designed. [b]3.[/b] If I worked for Heinz and formulated a new ketchup recipie I wouldn't get paid everytime someone bought ketchup. [b]4.[/b] Musicians essentially struck a deal with the distributors that everytime they sold a unit then the musician should get a share. No other industry works in this way. This enabled some musicians to become much more wealthy than their initial efforts warranted. It allowed distinutors and the people who initially invested in the musicians to become far more wealthy than their investment risk warranted. Far more wealthy than the initial purpose of copyright which was to ensure that musicians were not taken advantage of and were able to continue making music. Making, recording and distributing music has become easier and cheaper, the rewards are becoming realigned. It's harder to make money from sales, but then it's harder for everyone to make money now, regardless of their profession. [/quote] 1. As do the majority of professional musicians today. Composers, quite rightly receive the greater rewards. 2. There are many examples of people having to pay to walk in to a building. Whether the architect is part of the profit sharing would be something for him to negotiate. 3. Then, don't work for Heinz. If you create your own sauce and work to get it in the stores, then you will most likely be paid for every jar sold. That's how it works. 4. Simply, not true!

I'm sure I read somewhere Boss ME-8B

[quote name='hunt the shunt' timestamp='1361034549' post='1980146'] Has this replaced the other thread? [/quote] It looks that way. I only caught Difford & Tilbrook doing Please Please Me... well, at least they attempted it... if I was the uncharitable type I would describe it as 'totally vibeless' [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1361021854' post='1979888'] the whole musical nostalgia thing is hugely depressing. Move on now please. [/quote] This may come as a surprise, but it's perfectly possible to 'move on' and still appreciate The Beatles, and what they did. [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1361024186' post='1979927'] they wrote some great songs, but I find the idea that there has been little progress since them bizarre. [/quote] This was a problem in the other Beatles thread - statements seemingly plucked from the air. Has anybody actually said 'there has been little progress since them'? IAC what does 'Progress' actually mean?

School Days was considered to be a bit of a SC classic. Haven't played it for years, so not sure how it stands up today.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360968151' post='1979355'] I could argue on my avatars artistic merit as to why it is better but in keeping with the way this thread seems to have gone ...........[b]BECAUSE I'M RIGHT AND THEREFORE I SAID SO[/b]!!!!!!!!!! [/quote] Now it makes sense [quote name='wombatboter' timestamp='1360970870' post='1979392'] I sang "Sheladooyeah yeah yeah".. [/quote]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360934902' post='1978570'] So no one willing to jump in and claim that the Beatles output compositionally surpassed all the Motown output then? Interesting.... [/quote]I wouldn't draw any conclusions from a lack of response. The thread is 25 pages now, possibly many have said all they have to say on the subject. [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360936933' post='1978635'] So for you Ob-La-Di trumps Tears of a Clown? Wow......... [/quote]With respect, probably not your most considered post.

Not so keen on the demo, but the finish on the Corvette looks quite lovely. Warwick do some stunning finishes. BTW Is it my imagination, or has a post or 2 been deleted? Didn't someone else [i]post then delete[/i] a week or so ago?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1360883929' post='1978032'] You lot still here?? This is (hopefully) my last contribution to this epic saga on why the Beatles became a national treasure and the biggest pop group of all time,[b] but may be ever so slightly over-rated (of course, based purely on their musical output)![/b] [/quote] I guess you missed the Howard Goodall documentary posted earlier by Fat Rich - you should take a look. It goes a little way to explaining [b]why[/b] they were rated so highly "based purely on their musical output".

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1360873045' post='1977810'] It's not that extraordinary or impossible. First three chords are essentially a ll-V-l with a tritone substitution on the V. The 4th chord is the dominant of the home chord to start the sequence again on eb. Half do the ll-V-l then come out of it on a basic, tho altered, lV-minV-l. Which crops up loads in beatles tunes. [/quote]You're quite right (although I'm not sure of your description of the Bbm). Chord substitutions are commonplace in jazz, but, I would argue, not so common in pop music of the early 60s... and coming from a 24 year old pop star. Maybe 'extraordinary' is a little ott

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360870563' post='1977758'] Shhhhhhhhh..............don't want to speak to soon but i think it's all gone quiet on the Fab Four front. [/quote]Yeah, I think Fat Rich's YT link was a kind of 'Back of the net' moment. Not surprisingly, it seems to have taken the wind out of the naysayers sails. Edited to add another Fab Factlet (for BC's younger members): Usually, the Fabs sang their own songs... whoever wrote it, sang it.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360858885' post='1977551'] [b]*my edit.[/b] Better, happy now - carry on. Though no-one's taken me up on what other tracks I should find "stand out" on the albums of theirs that I have . [/quote]Sorry, I took that as a given. As far as suggesting tracks... too much like spoonfeeding. And one man's meat 'n all that.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360854222' post='1977461'] Everyone who understands music wilh any depth and education also understands that the introduction to "If I Fell" is an masterful musical impossibility . There's no way that movement cannot come off as clumsy, yet Lennon somehow makes it a brilliant melody. Anyone who thinks they can do that if they just had a good recording studio is hopelessly oblivious. But...carry on. [/quote]Lowender, I was going to make post about that very song. Chordaly, the intro to If I Fell is quite extraordinary: Ebm / D / Db / Bbm / Ebm / D / Em / A But as with many of The Beatles songs, they make the oddest chord changes sound perfectly natural. BTW Fat Rich, nice find with the documentary. I hadn't seen it before.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360852468' post='1977409'] I've still to see any posts on here [b][i]denying[/i][/b] his subsequent influence; personally I prefer to hear it from those that he's supposedly influenced but I don't deny it's there en masse. One thing that I did find distasteful was the slagging of him for his appearance in the Olympic & Jubilee bashes. if he hadn't been there I think it would been more baffling, though it was mostly on trendy comedy shows where most of the slagging took place; Jo Brand on QI (IIRC) was one. [/quote]No, nobody has [b]denied[/b] their influence (as far as I've read), but certainly their [b]level[/b] of influence (as worded in my post) has been called in to question. But maybe instead of the words 'those that deny their level of influence' I should have used the words: [i]those that claim The Beatles are overrated[/i].

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1360799693' post='1976888'] Are you googling these or are you like a font of factlets? Well I just made this 22 pages long.. [/quote] Font of Fab Factlets!... try saying that after a beetroot shandy OK, I know this thread is on its last legs, but it does occur to me that perhaps many of those that deny The Beatles level of influence are possibly those very same people that will sigh whenever Macca's on the box, saying, "Oh, look at that smug, arrogant p**ck... and look, Jeez, he's doing that f***in' peace sign again... twat!" I think it's likely that Sir Paul's more recent offerings, appearances, TV broadcasts and inevitable accompanying interviews, has effected their appreciation, of anything that [i]'that smug, arrogant p**ck[/i]' may have ever done. Even in this thread there has been the odd post started along the lines of, [i]I can't stand Paul McCartney...[/i], and then the poster has gone on to state why he thinks The Beatles are overrated. I wonder if Sir Macca had died in a bizarre boating accident 20 or 30 years ago if the tone of this thread may have been a little different. Fab factlet: As of Sunday, Sir Paul (Macca) McCartney is the proud( ) recipient of his 17th Grammy award... but you lot knew that already.

Fab factlet: John Lennon wrote many songs about peace and love

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360754021' post='1975781'] For that alone; come the glorious day, he'll be first against the wall, bop, bop, bop. [/quote] Not a fan then(?)