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[quote name='peteb' post='910404' date='Jul 30 2010, 04:18 PM']Nige, i think that you are in great danger of turning into Scott Thunes here! By your definition I am both a bass player and a musician, not that I necessarily accept your definition of musician - the lead violinist in an orchestra may not compose or improvise but still may be a stellar musician! The only instrument that I play to performance level is bass and I play better than I've ever composed so I'm quite happy to be called a bass player![/quote] It was reading his interview that prompted the post really, but it is something I've thought about for a long time and I have my own thoughts about it. I know plenty of "people who play instruments" to a high technical level but who are primarily songwriters/composers, often they are multi instrumentalists. I also know "people who play instruments" to a high technical level but who can't compose or write songs, or even improvise much. They need to be told what to play and they play it beautifully. To my mind these are two completely different types of people. Zappa's ex band members, some of them are very good at composition and make a living at it, some are pretty poor going by what I've heard. I really believe it's important to make the distinction, especially if you are auditioning band members. It is probably easier to have people who don't have compositional ambitions in your band if you are a control freak and QC all your music yourself. Sometimes you may want band members who can contribute compositionally or improvisationally. I have to be a mechanic in one of my bands, but that's fine because I can still control the dynamics and the tone choices and that's very important. The other band allows me to compose my lines and luckily they go down very well. I am very sensitive to the needs of the song, the singer and the writer. I think I have good compositional skills for pop music and I write pop rock songs and lyrics. I'd be crap at jazz or classical or R&B, Hip Hop, blah blah, though, so there is another distinction one can make. My OP was very poorly worded wasn't it

[quote name='alexharvay' post='910303' date='Jul 30 2010, 02:27 PM']By sand box I mean development server. Sorry, should have made that a bit more clear.[/quote] Ahh, got you. Sorry mate. We kind of got to eachother a bit there, apologies for overreacting. Cheers

[quote name='Stingray5' post='910257' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:43 PM']Nigel, you've made exactly the point with your OP that I kept thinking I would make in that 'Macca' thread, except I couldn't be ars*d as, for me, that thread was just way too tedious to bother with in the end. Personally, I've played guitar for 45 years, bass for 40 years, keyboards (sort of!) for another 20-odd years, I've also sung (b/v's and some lead) in every band I've ever been in plus written my own songs for as long as I can remember. In my passport, I would put 'Musician'. Talking with anyone who asks, I'm a musician whose primary instrument is bass (...that's bass guitar! ). That's what has given me most work as a musician. I view the likes of Macca and also Sting in a similar way. They are musicians whose primary instruments happen to be the bass. But they also play guitar, keyboards, even a bit of drums in Macca's case, plus sing and write their own material. Likewise, I wouldn't just call Stevie Wonder a keyboard player! [/quote] Excellent, that's what I'm talking about! Actually I'm very similar to you except I play a bit of drums, not keys. And I see myself in a very similar way.

[quote name='alexharvay' post='910254' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:40 PM']I found your last comment quite offensive. I’m just saying, to me there’s no point agonising over whether you prefer being called a bassist or a musician. Does it really matter? Let me know when you’re ready and I shall retrieve the step ladder so as you may dismount your pedestal. I'm off to play in my sand box.[/quote] Alex, you interpreted my post incorrectly. Why are you offended? What did I say to offend you? I get really concerned about things like this. You state that you are not picky about language then proceed to get offended by something you read because you interpreted it incorrectly. Language should perhaps be more important to you then. I also see from your last two sentences that despite my protestations to the contrary, you still think I called you a child and are now taking names to yourself, and you think I have put myself on a pedestal. You are wrong. I see no more point in discussing anything with you if you behave like this. You clearly take offence very easily and without trying to understand what was written. Let's just ignore eachother shall we?

[quote name='TimR' post='910246' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:29 PM']You muddied it a bit by throwing in the Guitarist v Guitar player quote. By then I had forgotten the original question. So I am a musician. Would I still be a musician if I only played bass? That's a difficult one to answer. I think learning all the instruments I have and playing in the different types of orchestras/bands that I have has shaped me somewhat from just a player of instruments into what some high brow musicians would call a musician. My non musician friends would say anyone who plays an instrument is a musician. Once you start to play an instrument you find that there a many different levels of competency. From the bassist who knocks out the roots that he has been told to play by the band leader - through the bassist who plays the notes on a score- through to a musician who fully understands why he is playing the notes he is and would be able to make his own choices on which notes to play in any given context - through to the accomplished musician who can do this in any genre. Did you see what I did there? Musician for me every time with the caveat that everyone has something to learn (some of us lots!) The day you stop learning is the day you die.[/quote] That's an excellent post, and you are right, I completely muddied the water What I mean is, the difference between a skilled operator and a composer. To me, a composer is a musician and a skilled operator is a bassist. If you are unable to improvise effectively, you are a bassist. It is like the difference between someone trained to operate a lathe and someone who designs things which can be made on a lathe and understands the nature, application and limits of the machinery. Naturally these distictions can be blurred. But I was interested in whether people see themselves as lathe operators or product designers.

[quote name='alexharvay' post='910235' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:22 PM']Are you calling me a child?[/quote] Oh dear. No I'm not, not that being called a child should be taken a certain way. I meant not being picky about language means you can only communicate in a basic manner. However, your response clearly illustrates the importance of being picky about language.

[quote name='chris_b' post='910231' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:17 PM']All players of musical instruments are musicians. Maybe some believe that there is a hierarchy of musicianship but I don’t.[/quote] Interesting, I'm not sure I see it that way. Does that mean a luthier, or a retailer of instruments, is a musician?

[quote name='alexharvay' post='910218' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:07 PM']I'm not that picky with language.[/quote] Mmm. Really? You don't see a difference, semantically if not philosophically? How can you communicate effectively, ie. beyond a very basic level like that of a child, if you are not picky with language, by which I presume you mean use of particular words to convey meaning or intent? It must be quite limiting for you, not to say dangerous. Music is a language so presumably, being a microwave, you are more picky about the newts you use?

[quote name='Lozz196' post='910212' date='Jul 30 2010, 01:04 PM']Depends on who I`m talking to. If talking to a musician, I describe myself as a bassist. If talking to a non-nusician, I describe myself as a musician, as in the majority of these times when I`ve described myself as a bassist, been met with the "glazed eyes of not knowing what I`m on about" look. Just have to accept it, we are more mysterious than the others.[/quote] I know exactly what you mean "Oh, you mean like a bass guitar?" However, I meant this thread to be about how you consider [b]yourself[/b]. I should have said something like "are you a mechanic or a composer?" but folks would take that ill

[quote name='alexharvay' post='910135' date='Jul 30 2010, 11:59 AM']I don’t think it matters, I’m not that pedantic.[/quote] Interesting you think it pedantic. To me there are fundamental and very important differences. The difference between a mechanic and a composer.

As the title says really. Also do you see one of those terms as subservient to the other? Because I do. Do you prefer to be referred to as a MUSICIAN or a BASSIST. I read an interview a long while back with a celebrated guitarist who I don't remember the name of, who felt deeply insulted when referred to as a "guitar player". He said "I'm a 'guitarist' not a 'guitar player'!", something to do with him being a [i]musician[/i] rather than an [i]instrument operator[/i]. Art versus craft perhaps.

The Hipshot Ultralite tuners and the Hipshot D-Tuner arrived this morning. The Ultralites really are light, they weigh NOTHING! Superbly made, great design. They all look so beautiful in gold, I am dribbling like a pale Staines scragbag on her furteenf burfday

If you get any pain in your hands or wrists, stop immediately and rest. Otherwise you risk making something acute into something chronic.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='909362' date='Jul 29 2010, 03:51 PM']but you could replace a standard nut 16 times over with the price of it! Sorry. I think it's a great idea, but not worth £80.[/quote] The standard moulded composite one is only about £25 though. The good thing is that you always know your nut will fit perfectly. The reason I went for the JANIII is because the Rockbass was older stock and came with A JANII which, conversely is an awful piece of design the reason I got the Brass one is because it's going on a very special bass, and it looks lovely.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='909152' date='Jul 29 2010, 12:48 PM']Aye top bloke. You'll have no problems with the U-Retro in there.[/quote] I am very excited about it actually. It sounds the absolute dog's nadgers. I mentioned I'd had a lot of recommendations for East on Basschat, and he says, are you a member? I said yes, he said ah, you get a 10% discount then! Wickid!!

I had a lovely chat with John East just now and he's recommended a new version of the U-Retro 01 5 knob for my custom build, which is what I'm going for. He's such a top man! Really helpful and took time to explain many things when he must be really busy.

I had a lovely chat with John East just now and he's recommended a new version of the U-Retro which is what I'm going for. He's such a top man!

Thanks guys, I am very reassured. I'll have a chat with John as I need the short shaft pots and preferably the battery recharching system. Cheers.

[quote name='Beedster' post='908400' date='Jul 28 2010, 04:43 PM']Hiya mate Have a chat with John East about your needs, I doubt you'll find any manufacturer either more helpful or patient. If my experience is anything to go by, if you need some variations on standard he'll do his best to accommodate them (we're currently discussing putting a P-Retro in an EUB). Cheers Chris[/quote] Thanks very much Chris, I'll do that. N

Congratulations! I checked you out last year and was seriously impressed.

[quote name='Paul_C' post='908352' date='Jul 28 2010, 04:07 PM']I've used U Retros in both my basses, they do all that I need a preamp to do Mine are wired to J and P pickups in one bass and a Bongo humbucker in the other and make both basses sound great. I doubt you'll need much in the way of instruction if you look at the details on the website, and it won't need soldering unless you need to wire it to a different style jack socket.[/quote] Thanks Paul! I have looked at the instructions but I really am crap with electronic stuff! I've got a stereo barrel jack. It's the ground and shielding I'm a bit unclear on. I'll be using copper foil for the cavities and the underside of the pickguard. The pickups are body mounted but the controls are PG mounted. The barrel jack is also body mounted of course. Thanks again.

I am tempted to go with the U-RETRO 01 Deluxe for my custom build, it looks really versatile. Anyone used one of these? What are they like? I'll be using it with passive MEC pups. MM-style HB and J-style SC. I will need some advice with the install. I am clueless with electronics. Thank you!

Mmm, I am tempted to go with the U-RETRO 01 Deluxe now, it looks really versatile. Anyone used one of those?