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[quote name='BassoRidiculoso' post='1244639' date='May 25 2011, 07:14 PM']Whatever. Go read Krantz's book, (which, clearly, you haven't or you would know this is *exactly* how he comes up with stuff, I could have called it the Krantzifier.) "[url="http://www.waynekrantz.com/newWebsite/IOSinfo.html"]An Improvisors OS[/url]". He discusses making patterns like this in detail. As do the other world class players listed in each of their respective publications. Just because you don't understand the validity of it hardly means it is not valid. Krantz may sit down with a pencil to do it, but he does it in a very structured manner like this at some point, that's the entire point of his book, creating, finding and running permutations. What we all hear him play is what comes from this process after he has mined that data and found cool stuff he liked and worked it up, turned it around, etc. Go read Krantz's book, that will answer if he uses a method like this or not. (spoiler - uh, he does). If you use a pencil or a computer to generate the base material is irrelevant. There are literally thousands of composers that have sat down and run permutations of phrases or groups of notes in some fashion like this. It is an extremely common practice. Hello, Slonimsky and Coletrane? All that is different is that we live in an era where a machine can do the grunt work for us now, and we can spend our time, more productively, on applying the results instead of repetitively generating them. For four notes it is not that hard, but it does take a few minutes to do each one by hand. But for 5 and 6 note combinations it gets extremely time consuming because each one has 120 and 720 different combinations of 5 and 6 notes respectively. That is a pain in the butt to do by hand.[/quote] Whatever? How old are you? Are you going to tell me to talk to your hand in a minute? That's all fair comment my friend, I just don't understand what the point is of all these permutations. Why would I want a computer programme to show me 720 permutations, then sift through them all over every permutation of every possible underlying chord structure? Maybe I'm a dumb sh*t or something. Are you into Kraftwerk?

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1239826' date='May 21 2011, 11:48 PM']Coated strings... tried them, didn't like how they feel under the fingertips. Kinda raspy, sort of sticky. Not my cuppa. bleuuurrrgghhhh! [/quote] They are NOT raspy or sticky! Unless you bought some sh*t ones

I use DR Black Beauties. The coloured ones you'll find are mostly DR Neons. Get them from Guitaruperhero in the States, I always do, MUCH cheaper and they arrive quickly. [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DR-Neon-Hi-Def-Green-NGB-45-Bass-Strings-45-105-/300555799193?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item45fa858a99#ht_720wt_1141"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DR-Neon-Hi-Def-Green...9#ht_720wt_1141[/url]

[quote name='thinman' post='899307' date='Jul 19 2010, 07:30 PM']Say you were playing something that goes across the strings, i.e. same fret, what would be the recommended fingering? E.g. if the following tab makes any sense how would it be best played : [font="Courier New"] |--------------------------------------- |------------------------7-------------- |---------------------7----7------------ |---------------5--7-------------------- [/font][/quote] It depends on what comes after it, and what went before it.

[quote name='BassoRidiculoso' post='1244451' date='May 25 2011, 04:32 PM']Here is some more info on the backgound - [url="http://bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com/2011/01/daily-licking-005-every-possible-way-to.html"]http://bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com/2011/0...ble-way-to.html[/url] The concept is based on books by guys like (of course) Jerry Bergonzi, Wayne Krantz, Gary Campbell, Ramon Richter and a bunch of others who have been using stuff like this for saxophone and other instruments for years to figure out patterns and find lines to play over chords. It is simply a way to generate all the possible ways to play any four notes, they don't have to be chord tones, it can be any four notes you want. You may find some melodic phrases or a pattern you haven't used before. Check out any of the Bergonzi books especially, he goes through it step by step. He is applying it in ways to find solo material but the idea can be used for anything.[/quote] Mmm, forgive me, but the way you describe it makes it sound like it is a single note phrase generation tool for people who have no musical imagination or, for people who simply can't express themselves with a musical instrument, or for people who can't tell what gives them a buzz or can't create something that gives them a buzz. Take four notes, sit down and play them any way you want, I don't need a computer in front of me to tell me how to do that do I? Are you telling me Wayne Krantz needs a web application to create guitar phrases that interest him? I don't believe you! Sorry if this sounds harsh. [quote name='Doddy' post='1244210' date='May 25 2011, 01:29 PM']Its basically just showing the various permutations of any 4 note pattern. In the same way that you might practice an arpeggio starting on the 3rd or 5th or whatever.[/quote] Great I know exactly what it is, I just don't understand why it is necessary or what problem it is solving.

[quote name='BassoRidiculoso' post='1243287' date='May 24 2011, 07:07 PM']Basso Ridiculoso and the factory of underpaid software monkeys is proud to annouce a handy little web thing for creating combinations of any four notes you want. [b] The Bergonzifying Transmogrifier[/b] is a free web application that generates all the possible combinations of any four musical notes that you choose and then notates and creates an MP3 file of the combinations. It "Transmogrifies" the set of four notes you choose, similar to a method outlined by the saxophonist Jerry Bergonzi in his "Inside Improvisation" series of method books. Check it out here: [b][size=4][center][url="http://bassoridiculoso.net16.net/"]http://bassoridiculoso.net16.net/[/url][/center] [/size][/b] You can read all the details on ways to use it here as well at the ol' bass blog: [size=4] [center][url="http://bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com/2011/05/announcing-bergonzifying-transmogrifier.html"]http://bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com/2011/0...smogrifier.html[/url][/center][/size] __________________ [url="http://bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com"]bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com[/url] • [url="http://twitter.com/#!/BassoRidiculoso"]twitter.com/#!/BassoRidiculoso[/url][/quote] Err, it seems utterly pointless to me. Would someone kindly explain what I'm missing here please.

[quote name='ZMech' post='1244175' date='May 25 2011, 12:59 PM']If you don't like using a set of symbols to represent notes, you could aways use their frequency, in theory this would be the most logical, but bloody annoying method. Can anyone tell me off the top of their head the minor 7th of a 110Hz?[/quote] E By Gum

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1243969' date='May 25 2011, 10:19 AM']Cheers BRX, I now want a Spalt! [/quote] I so nearly got a Spalt hybrid after seeing BRX's Weird & Wonderful thread when I first joined BC, then gravitated towards a Status Streamline, ended up with a Warwick. I want a Spalt again now

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1243575' date='May 24 2011, 10:15 PM']This is where it all goes wrong for me and I think as someone sort of in the middle who has made the decision to learn more reading and theory how does anyone know what they do and dont need to know? And for me in all walks of life Im not the sort of person that can say that's enough I don't need to know any more. I'm 100% converted and now know I was being lazy before which in turn has made it harder for me to learn later in my playing life, I have done alright but I'm sure I could of done more if I had started earlier. My more I'm talking on all levels, Writing , Performing, More gigs, Better gigs and everything involved with playing as a bass player. It doesn't matter how many have said the same as I just have some people don't want to accept that there might be some truth in it. Tbh I love these threads because my new found thirst for knowledge started from one just like it with me defending my ear playing and theory hindering me, 20 years playing and never kicked out of a band etc. If you don't have a look over the fence you will never know if the grass is greener or not IMO. See this is where I fall down, I can try and preach to the no believers but I can't actually do the business, My mind is made up but my brain is lagging behind I'm going to do some reading right now![/quote] I think this is where a really good teacher can help enormously. The lesson I had with Jake was mostly talking, and for half an hour at the end we went through some stuff on the bass, then he gave me some simple things to learn, but which also demonstrated the endless possibilities. It was very useful in getting me to understand what I felt about learning theory and reading, and which aspects might be useful. I'll be honest, I wish I was brilliant at both but I think a lot of it for me is vanity. I'm not sure the sort of music I play, and that I my perceived dislike of a musical life like Doddy's, merits very much more study, but then maybe it does

Theory is undoubtedly very, very useful. To learn the aspects of theory you require, ideally you need to read standard notation. Theory can only do so much though, and there are many different applications for it, depending on your musical role. Theory is not a panacea, nor is technical facility, nor is compositional study. But we are often told they are, and that we should learn it all. To truly make use of these tools, you need to know your musical role and decide the tools' subsets you need for your role, and understand how they can help you achieve your musical goals. The trouble with a lot of teaching methods, I think, is that they are taught to a syllabus that takes little account of the students' needs, or indeed even attempt to teach the student how to understand and decide what they might need and what they feel they want to achieve as a musician. All musicians are different and need different things from the academic side of music. I feel sure it's not as difficult to learn as those of us without the language are often made to feel it is.

[quote name='Monckyman' post='1241857' date='May 23 2011, 04:47 PM']+10. Hugleeee. Soz.[/quote] Afraid I'm with these guys, to me, they both look f***ing vile. But I have a Hohner headless stick bass, so that balances my statement somewhat

[quote name='jonannlou' post='1242671' date='May 24 2011, 10:05 AM']see photo's - any ideas ??![/quote] Ahh, I thought you meant a headless one. The nut looks ok to me, as does the nut. Pickup height seems ok too. Duff set of strings springs to mind.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1242396' date='May 23 2011, 10:34 PM']It's also makes a fairly common flat 9 chord[/quote] Exactly my point, and the basis of what BRX was saying.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1242314' date='May 23 2011, 09:45 PM']I have several song demos recorded in the late 80s using the octave technique to get technically "wrong" notes to work with various chords. If I can find the cassettes they are recorded on and have the time I'll get them digitised and uploaded, but it won't be before next week at the earliest I'm afraid. I'm sure in the mean time someone will come up with something more mainstream that uses this.[/quote] Try a minor 2nd against the tonic, then try shifting either note an octave, that should serve to illustrate the very basic principle.

[quote name='jonannlou' post='1242281' date='May 23 2011, 09:29 PM']bump for more info pls![/quote] photos please

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1241631' date='May 23 2011, 02:16 PM']I saw it last Saturday in Ipswich. Didn't buy it. Stopped buying bass magazines a long time a go when I realised that I learned next to nothing of value from reading them [/quote] Yes but they make your morning toilet easier, although reading BGM makes it more difficult as the necessary strain and discomfort seems to be diverted elsewhere when i read it Nevertheless, I shall buy this one since dood is in it

[quote name='dood' post='1242157' date='May 23 2011, 08:03 PM']Awwww bless ya! I'm gonna give the excerpts a listen right now!! THANKS [/quote] My pleasure mate, I love cello too, but I can't stand Bach cello suites and the like, call me a philistine, but they're often a lazy choice for bassists who just want to check out some cello, and I just don't like the composition, lord knows I've tried to like it Isserlis is incredible, what he gets out of a cello is heart-wrenching and shiver-inducing. Here's a small taste just see if I can get people to buy it, the Introduction: [attachment=80764:09_Third...e__Lento.mp3]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1242146' date='May 23 2011, 07:54 PM']IME Timbre and octave are massively important in being able to fit notes that in theory shouldn't go together. You have obviously never played in band with anyone into hardcore sound design/synthesis otherwise you'd have discovered this. Although I don't have the dexterity to play a C7/B on the guitar I can manage Bb7/A which to my ears has a pleasing tension and fits nicely into a riff with A7, Cm and D9 chords. If was still in the band I was playing with 5 years ago I would now be working this riff up into a full song, but the chord structure doesn't suit the style of either of my current bands so I've just filled the idea away for a time when it will be appropriate. Many thanks for the suggestion Doddy![/quote] I completely agree with this. Octave is especially important as to whether notes can work together or not.

[quote name='son of frog' post='1242026' date='May 23 2011, 06:52 PM']Maybe not that dark... [/quote] They do other colours too! [url="http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx"]http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx[/url] I also want to do this.

[quote name='dood' post='1242034' date='May 23 2011, 06:57 PM']Heh heh!! Funny you should mention Cello - it's an instrument that has always interested me from a distance. I love it's timbre and the range that it covers. Maybe that's why I like wandering up the neck of my basses a bit as well as the low LOWS![/quote] Dan, if you haven't already, you really should check out Stephen Isserlis's version of Britten's Third Suite for Cello Op.87 and Thrinos for solo cello. It is sublime! The cd also has John Taverner's Protecting Veil on it too, which is one of my all time favourite orchestral pieces, so the CD is amazing value for money. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Tavener-The-Protecting-Veil/dp/B001IOUD8Q/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306175339&sr=301-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Tavener-The-P...39&sr=301-1[/url] (see Bilbo, I listen to more "challenging" music )