tegs07

I do find the Fender hate a bit bewildering to be honest... I am not surprised early Fender and Stingray guitars are highly collectible. The man created the designs that still dominate the market to this day. The Precision, Jazz, Stingray, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Jazzmaster for me these are really pleasing aesthetic objects the e type jag, gull wing Mercedes and DB5’s of the music world.

I was intrigued by @walshypost. One thing I have learned is when people do something for a living they tend to know what they are talking about so I started to do some research and stumbled on this: http://www.fao.org/3/XII/0674-B1.htm

An extract:

Over the past decades the world’s managed fast-growing forests have been increasing steadily. The managed resource is expected to dominate the world wood supply in the first half of this century. Worldwide, the transition from total dependence on depleting inherited stocks to reliance on a managed resource has been associated with a significant decline in wood quality (Zobel 1984; Kellogg 1989). For example, a wood quality index reported by Constantino and Haley (1988) for the British Columbia Coast showed that log quality had declined by almost 25% between r taper, larger knots, higher juvenile wood content and different wood characteristics and processing properties.

Gorgeous. I have have it’s matching older brother at home. I was looking for a black one but loved the translucent teal.

42 minutes ago, bassbiscuits said:

Mine wasn't bought as a vintage collectible - it's a nice instrument, which just happens to be old now.

Hence my comment that i wouldn't go out of my way to get another vintage instrument for its own sake. I've played some lovely modern basses which I'd have happily bought if I'd missed out on my old one.

I was addressing the numerous “what logical reason” type questions really as I don’t think there is a logical reason other than maybe capital appreciation. Vintage items whether they are cars, guitars or watches may have mojo but they tend to be a little more quirky and high maintenance than the modern counterparts.. you have got to really love them to bother with the extra expense and possible maintenance.

Edit: as an example I don’t have any really old basses but I do have a 30 year old Stingray. I don’t play it often and always used to use a Sterling Ray34 ( before selling it) if it was down to logic I would have sold the 30 year old Ray and kept the Indonesian one as it was a fabulous instrument but I would struggle to part with the Ray. Purely emotional rather than logical.

I would argue that there is no logic to vintage collectibles unless it’s as an investment. Largely it will be an emotional  rather than a head decision.

I’m not knocking anyone’s choice. Personally I love vintage instruments and am not too bothered about original components, purists that pay top dollar for these instruments are though. I would rather they were used as intended and suffer a little wear but if someone else wants to hang them on a wall in all their original glory that’s their choice.

5 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Would a rare old Mercedes, totally original, which had new (top quality) tyre's devalue it? Absolutely not, same thing applies to frets on a stringed instrument. The only time a refret may devalue it is if it was absolutely mint, and a collectors piece, but then, the frets on that bass would unlikely be used, therefore wouldn't need replacing!

I would say the same with wiring.. I would want that replaced on a 50’s car. I’m with you I think it’s ludicrous but It’s what I have heard.. frets may be exempt I don’t know, but pots, jack, wiring are definitely expected to be original.

6 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:Worn down frets etc won't devalue, in fact a professional refret will only add value.

I have heard that Japan is a big market for Vintage instruments but are sticklers for authenticity- everything is expected to be original.. pots, wiring, scratch plate ... not sure if fretts are exempt or not though.

44 minutes ago, Gray said:

I ended up buying this bass, in my ongoing efforts to find a (very cheap) Stingray-esque thing that I actually enjoy playing. 

 

 

 

 

For that money you can’t really go wrong- the Stinger certainly does a passable imitation of the original and would think the SUB pickup would be reasonable.. 

22 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Guitars are speculative investments with little intrinsic value and easily replicability. There’s no reason why the should continue to increase in value, and like many of these things, once the core demographic shuffles off (men of a certain age who grew up in the 50s, 60s and 70s) the demand is likely to fall. 

By all means spend your cash on what you like, but the vintage guitar market is as fragile as any other market out there. 

It’s certainly a speculative market with no logic, but I don’t see why the next generation of guys/girls/non-binary whatever particularly in countries such as China with a rapidly growing new wealth will be any less likely to be seduced by the allure of music history than their middle aged counterparts.

Scarce and beautiful objects tend to go up in value ..”things with mojo”even more so. Check the price of a Morris Minor in the UK against the price of one in the US for example.

Warmoth body purchased. Great photos and comms. Packaged  like a Pro!

USA J loom purchased. These are quality looms. Very neat work and quick postage.

Even accepted a return as when ordering I failed to mention It was for a 3 hole US plate rather than the 4 hole.

22 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

I understand that. To me, a bass is a bass, age isn't a factor and I don't place a value on the age of an instrument. I'm attracted by the spec of something but I don't lust after something just because it's old. Many do, I get that, but referring to the OP's question I'm very much in the Emperor's New Clothes camp, controversial as it is.

Fair enough.. I like the aesthetics, the design aspect, the history and development and the skill that goes into making them. I can definitely see the appeal in the vintage market I guess am just an anorak 

PS I do agree about the price of JV Squires though. I don’t get it either but I also don’t get Apple Watches either.

Vintage collectibles fall into an entirely different category where logic doesn’t apply. I owned a Type 2 VW camper that I bought for under a grand in the 90’s what it would cost now is many times that... is it better than a modern vehicle? Is it worth it?

It still brings me joy to see them around and I am very happy that people cherish and restore them. Same with old instruments for me. They have an appeal beyond whether they are better or worse than a modern equivalent and I don’t think they can really be compared in the same way. I am just happy they are still used, restored and cherished.

So if I had the budget and had a hankering for a vintage US Fender I would buy one and possibly a vintage mustang to transport it in.

On 21/03/2021 at 14:54, Doctor J said:

If you want something old, buy a good Japanese bass from the late 70's or 80's, something along the lines of a high-end Yamaha BB or the likes. They're now just as old as the oldest Fenders were when they were made and people started losing all rationale over the value of 30 years or older instruments in the 80's.....Seeing JV Squiers sell for over a grand these days... what have they done to my beautiful planet?

I don’t see the problem with this personally. If someone has the cash and wants to spend it on a JV Squire why not? Some people pay to go on cruises, others have expensive gym membership or join a golf club, others spend thousands on cars that depreciate as soon as they are driven off the forecourt.. whatever floats your boat.

Are you buying a bass just to play or an investment? There is not necessarily a logical or quality reason for buying a vintage Fender. Scarce collectible items tend to appreciate in value.. If you have the funds and want to try one your more likely to sell at a profit than a loss in a few years time.

I have a thing for older MIJ Fenders and also like classic cars. I don’t have the budget for the cars or MIA vintage Fenders if I did I wouldn’t mind a few of either.

1 minute ago, Geek99 said:

I do - have to with our disaster zone of a house. First owner did not maintenance for the first 20 years after it was built 

Necessity is the mother of invention and all that. Basic point is cheap basses often save costs by having cheap pickups and electrics among other things as this eBay listing shows unless you are willing and able to learn some skills they can end up costing in the long run unless they are kept stock. Personally although I think Harley Bentons are fairly decent particularly for the cost I would always opt for used Squire CV. 

7 minutes ago, prowla said:

It's a question of how long it takes you to do something and how good the result is, compared to a professional.

Indeed. I can solder. It’s functional but not pretty.

You would expect there to be some provenance or at least an attempt at a back story with this .. otherwise like you say it’s just a shite guitar with marker pen scribble on it.

28 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Most people can learn to solder guitar stuff in 15 minutes with a cheap USB iron I reckon, swapping the original wiring back in would be a very small job. I put a fair bit of money into my main bass but kept hold of the original parts in case I ever need to sell it, would take a massive hit otherwise. 

All true. Most people could also do basic plumbing, electrics, PC support, painting and decorating, car service etc etc but they don’t!

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

 

That's why you put the original bits back when you sell it! Price is understandable on this one as the seller has devalued the bass with that battery cavity. Also when did those Stinger preamps get so expensive, they were cheap a few years ago weren't they?

You need some soldering skills and a modicum of understanding though.. not everyone has the time or confidence. I paid £70 odd for a Stinger 18 months ago. Reasonable price IMO for what it does and happy to support UK based companies/individuals and pay them a reasonable price for the work they do.

So tempted but I really can’t buy another bass! This is great... some one will be very lucky.

Now £125. This is my only problem with cheap basses... the law of diminishing returns means the pickups/electrics etc can never be swapped out without losing cash. A Stinger is around £80 delivered and a SUB pickup must have been at least £20

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114728058996
 

I know there are a few fans on here. Not the neatest job fitting the battery compartment but the Retrovibe stinger and Sub pickup would cost nearly the price of the bass and should sound pretty good for £135 delivered.

It’s an auction and there is still 2 days to go but still less than £700 with only 1 bid .... someone may get lucky:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224381148934