Twincam

Use lead solder. It's just easier, plus it's more durable to movement and heat. 

Soldering irons with a temp gauge on are good. I find I use 350 degrees c. For lead free you may need to go higher. But honestly get some lead solder. 

Also something to hold wires down with. For starters a good pair of thin long nose pliers will do. 

Watch out when soldering say a wire to a pot that it stays there, and not flick up and splat molten solder all over your face!

Also move little bits of solder well away from working area. I once had a tiny, left over bit of soldering wire that was slightly wrapped around the soldering iron drop off, right onto an amp circuit bored. Right onto the charged caps! There was a flash and molten solder vaporised outwards! There's also a lesson in capacitor discharging in that story to. 

10 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The early bass cabs that were open backed might not have benefited from being sealed, as they used generic musical instrument drivers which were guitar oriented anyway. Besides, they could give a good tone, they just couldn't go loud. Play just about any Beach Boys recording and you're probably hearing Carol Kaye playing through an open back Fender Super Reverb.

Interesting. 

I had a open backed valve Wem dominator combo a few years back. 15w 1x15. It sounded fine for bass practice at home. And micd recording.

Wasn't very loud until paired with a guitar then was seriously loud! I believe the amp was the same as the guitar version, just the 1x15 was bass specific celestion g15m 50w 

No 2 basses will be the same in neck stability that's the nature of wood. Even if they were made one after each other. 

From my experience stingrays are pretty stable. I believe I've worked on ones dating from 78/79 to modern ones. That's not to say that some won't need more regular adjustment. 

Did you check the relief with a feeler blade? What you might of done is loosened it off a bit too much for example going from .004 to .014 which might only be half a turn in some basses. Which would cure the fretting out and still feel playable but then the strings pulled the neck just a touch, as it didn't really have enough tension in the rod. And then the neck is say .019 measured at the 7th which is a noticeable bow! These tiny measurements actually make big changes. 

As a experiment I converted a little sealed practice combo, an Ibanez soundwave. To ported with the help of winisd and a new speaker. That was a few years ago.

Beforehand I felt the combo had a great neutral sound, which in my opinion, was the best I had heard in an inexpensive combo. Great for jazz. It just lacked any real authority. I also liked the fact it didn't rattle or have any funny resonance. 

I can't remember all the details but after porting, and the new speaker. It sounded not that different in its basic sound signature. Apart from it had better low end and the volume was maybe very slightly increased. There was limitations to the small box as to what I could actually achieve. 

Many bass and guitar players have plugged into the little combo and said how good it sounds. It's far better than my previous practice amp a fender rumble v3 1x12 100, not that was just boomy and also rattled badly. 

On another note. It's funny how in the early days some bass cabs were open backed. Just sealing them surely would of made a big difference.

Excellent story!

Out of curiosity. Was there any bowing of the neck, with it being stored all that time? Or did it still relatively have the right relief?

On 07/12/2021 at 16:13, Bridgehouse said:

And, this gets used at home more than anything else…

 

 

Had one purely as a practice amp.

The fan, which may of been broken or something was annoyingly loud though. 

I've worked on a good few yamaha trbs. And one thing that's struck me is they have always set up very well. In fact all yamaha basses I've worked have been very good in this way. 

I like the trb sound too. Yeah the treble had hiss but don't think it was/is that bad. 

Quality instrument! 

Disappointing!

I really hope it gets sorted now.

Should do.

Looks like was taken to exactly where I would expect it to go then unsuspecting shop sold it. 

Well the best way would be to drill and fill the dots and redo them at the lines. Being careful to match the wood in the old dot holes to the colour of the neck. 

Maybe as a temporary option, some larger bright coloured stickers that you can stand. Placed upon the lines. You will soon get used to looking at those instead of the others. 

I'm in the ne area and often in various shops with used instruments. I shall keep an eye out. 

Very sorry to hear of the theft. 

To add its maybe a good idea to email a pic to any shops that buy instruments in the ne area. In case there offered it. 

Excellent thread! 

4 hours ago, Clarky said:

I don't think so, a new bass should be good to go in my view (especially a >£2k bass like a Rick), not the starting point for extra spends and modding. In any case the slab edges and heavily varnished rear of the neck are not to my taste either. I just made a mistake

Did you try a Rick previously?

I've only ever tried one once, even though it was brand new off the shelf. It had a terrible action, so high my fingers kept slipping when fretting. 

Still fancy one though, even though it would no doubt be a mistake. I suppose you convince yourself it will all be fine. 

1 minute ago, lemmywinks said:

It's just an 8ohm driver wired straight to a speakon at the moment, would just like the option of adding another cab at some point.

Then yeah wire it as you said. 

First thought is It would depend on the ohms you require to how you would wire it. 

If your cab is 8 ohm that's easier.

If your current cab is 4 ohms then wiring in parallel will make it 2 ohms when connecting another 4ohm cab, which likely you may not want! Or 6 ohm if you connect up a 8 ohm cab to your 4ohm. 

So you might want to wire a 4ohm cab out in series instead.

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

he specifically said on a vibrating table, ie, an acoustic instrument. It would make absolutely no difference on an electric only instrument

Again I'm tired so I could be wrong here.

But I'm sure he did say earlier in the thread angle effects the dynamics of a shimmed electric instrument. On page 1.

And that's what I was replying too. 

And this whole thread is really about bolt on neck electric instruments. 

On 04/12/2021 at 16:58, Hellzero said:

 

 

The more tilting the neck has, the more pressure on the saddles the strings will have, increasing the dynamic and the response of the instrument and also its power.

The opposite tends to destroy the dynamic and making the strings really flappy and dull sounding, or sometimes even so dampened they seem dead.

A neck totally parallel or level to the body will mean less to no pressure on the saddles whatever break angle you might give them inducing a great loss in dynamic.

This principle is applied to instruments with a "vibrating" table like a jazz guitar, any acoustic guitar, a double bass or any instruments of the classic quintet, but there's a maximum point after which the pressure will void the string vibration.

Check the tilting of a double bass and the break angle of the strings on the bridge and you'll understand the process.

I'm writing this while tired so please forgive me.

I understand for the most part but I don't think that totally works out in my initial thoughts. To me if I draw a line on paper representating a string from one point the nut, and to another point the saddle. And there is another line under it for the fretboard and I tilt the paper the angle is different but the string tension is the same. If not it would be out of tune. 

And surely if break angle alters playing dynamics string through bodies would be vastly different to through the bridge. 

Also there are plenty of very good instruments with parallel necks or only tiny tiny amounts of angle. 

A through body string through design is going to have the same downward pressure no matter how high the bridge once tuned. Angle a neck you raise the bridge but you then have to detuned the string. 

Why are we not playing instruments with loads of neck angle and high bridges? 

I'm not saying your wrong by the way, I'm just trying to understand the principle more so I can form a better opinion on this one. 

8 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

What exactly does a shim look like. Its not something i've ever done. Will check Youtube clips. 

Think it just surprised me that a Sandberg bass should need a meck shim. This wasn't a cheap bass when it was new so you'd expect a lower action without any great issue.

What string height do you get on yours @Cuzzie

Dave

Do not, just pop a shim!

Likely the neck relief is wrong. And the truss rod needs some adjustment.

Very unlikely a sandberg would need a shim.

Absolutely no way should the bridge be maxed out at 2mm on any string.

You would be surprised how to much relief or little. Even in tiny amounts makes a big difference, for saddle height. The neck may of developed a tiny amount of bow which could be the difference between 2.0mm and 1.2mm. Assuming neck relief started around .007 and might of drifted to double that over time. Does happen with string changes or atmospheric conditions. 

Only if the nut adjustment is correct, frets are level and the relief is correct then and only then, a shim considered. 

And even then I would suggest saddle shaving before a shim. For multiple reasons. Others may differ in opinion. See the thread, Shims just say no in general discussion. 

Just now, Hellzero said:

I understood that, no worries, I've done the same a lot.

2 shims removed from a bass the other day. Little plastic one and on top a bands card! Don't know why they were there, neck has perfect angle I would say. Strings contact the bridge well and sit in the saddle perfectly. The saddles have plenty of adjustment there, setup was better by 0.1 mil haha. But it made me feel better. 

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

I've been setting up instruments for more than 35 years including a decade as a professional, so it means thousands of instruments, and sometimes a shim is needed for two main reasons :

- The neck tilting, as there must be one to allow some dynamic.

- The break angle at the saddle, as there must be one otherwise there won't be enough pressure meaning the string will get out of the slot very easily and the string will sound almost dead or really dampened.

 

If these two points are met, no need for a shim, just remove it and set up the instrument perfectly.

I'm not sure I follow on the tilt for dynamics? There's through neck basses that have level fretboards with the body. I'm keen to hear your thoughts. As this kind of thing interests me.

The break angle annoys me as there should be sufficient angle in the design in the first place and the neck pocket wasn't correct in first place or has a poor bridge placement/design. Of course if putting a bass together from parts or bits from other makes then shims are going to help there. 

It's just that most of the time people put them in for no good reason. And that's my issue. 

49 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I always thought shims were to fine tune neck angle compared to body - not to lower action...   there is though differing level of craftsmanship in basses - and something cheap and mass produced might need a shim, cos it's relatively cheap and mass produced... whereas I doubt the  one bolt neck on a Freedom custom guitar research Rhino bass would ever need one! 

@Twincam - how do you feel neck micro tilt features like you find on 70's Fender and Musicman and G&L ? 

I think they were there because vintage instruments of certain periods just didn't have good neck pockets.

Which would be a valid reason for having a shim or micro tilt feature. 

1 minute ago, Deedee said:

That’s my point. Shims are simply another tool in the vast armoury of methods to overcome setup/manufacturing issues,

Indeed. But we should not have too! I cry.

Of course shims are useful but the majority I find are not.

3 minutes ago, Deedee said:

I had a Wal mkI custom a few years back that required a neck shim in order to increase the string break angle, as strings used to regularly/easily jump out of the saddle grooves. So there 😂

Surely the saddle groves should of been slightly deepened and polished. Seems like a bad design.

But yeah fair enough haha 😄 

5 minutes ago, neepheid said:

Seeing as we're offering opinions here, In my opinion I think you're daft to "shave" the saddles instead of using a shim - non-destructive always trumps destructive as far as I'm concerned.

 

Well yes and no. It depends on the saddle type. Because often your just taking material off the underside. Of course certain bridges you can't do that, it would be a no no on a classic fender type. 

Shims alter the neck angle and despite raising the saddle heights, something changes, in relation to the string to neck angle. Even though simple science suggests it doesn't. It must do something. In 10 years of setting up guitars and 6 of those people paying me I've seen this time and time again. I can't explain it though. 

Another thing is the increased distance from strings to body could effect someone's playing ergonomics. That's an extreme case I suppose. 

Thought i would just say this.

As a bit sick of seeing shims of various materials in neck pockets that really don't need them. And taking them out and finding the bass or guitar sets up better for it. Most of the time shims are thrown in without good reason. 

A neck shim is only needed for 2 reasons. To correct a neck pocket that has been cut wrong. To shallow or wrong angle. Which is rare these days.

Or if the bridge saddles are on the bridge deck and can't be lowered anymore. And even then in my opinion it's better to shave the saddles. If the neck is at the correct angle. 

Shims will not help with the following. A ski jump at the end of the neck. Un level frets. String height, unless as stated above the bridge saddles can not be lowered further. Or any sort of buzzing from the strings.