Twincam

If you have a standard paper business card. Like one you would get for a taxi company. These are normally between 0.10 to 0.15 of an inch and that would be an OK relief at the 7th fret. When fretted at first and last fret.

I say this because too much relief and you make the bass harder to play.

A plastic bank card is 0.33 of an inch and way way way to much relief. 

Also when playing un amped, you can hardly hear things, so to amplify this you pluck harder and therefore get fret buzz.

Normally when amped you gently pluck unless you really are purposely digging in. 

This dynamics of plucking is hard to master and I think practising amped is probably better for someone just starting out. 

Better dynamically plucking, controlling the strings also allows a lower string height which can but not always, make you play better. 

Adding most of the better players I have heard and seen play, use a bit of string noise to get a better tone. So don't be afraid of some slight buzzing. 

And it's important just to practice, rather than worry about little things. That can come later. I know as for years, I was overly distracted by noises, fret buzz, setup, tone. When I should of been focusing on playing the thing. Haha. 

I have a hard time believing in how the fretboard wood can change a tone.

But having read things, others experiences, listened to examples and my own experiences I do believe it does, because I can hear it.

I have very sensitive hearing. Even though we are talking small or tiny changes. 

I can hear differences in instrument cables of the same length. 

And not to start anything, but I've heard many times how taking a neck on and off, can sometimes make a tonal change, although normally some kind of shim is involved. And screw torque will of changed. So there a few mechanical changes going on. 

Biggest changes of tone to me is.

Person playing.

Strings.

Pickup location. 

Pickup type.

Pickup height. 

Bridge, if previous one was very poor.

Neck construction. 

Body construction.

Bridge, if previous one had no issues. 

Too add I've not heard a difference in nut type. But a zero fret does make a difference. 

Psychology we know certain things like textures, colour, shades can affect us in various ways. It's maybe possible that even a difference in a guitars colour could effect our playing and therefore tone. 

I prefer maple necks as I can see my hand position and markers quicker. And even when not looking at the board I just seem to play better. Which admittedly with my level of playing isn't difficult. 

12 hours ago, 0175westwood29 said:

 

Good video. 

Where are you from originally? Sounds like a mixture of South West and North East lol. 

Clean sound. Heavy doom kicks in. Nice! 

So how does the neck affect the tone?

What's the difference in neck weight, balance? 

Would of been cool to get some before and after comparisons. 

Aesthetically I like it. 👍 

On 02/05/2023 at 15:19, ebenezer said:

Cheers folks! food for thought.

Fyi there's one for sale not far from you on gumtree.

Maybe it's what you are thinking of buying.

Nothing wrong with going having a test play. You've had good luck with yamahas if I recall right. 

Fantastic.

Great work by Andy there. 

Nice playing and it's sounds great! 

Only thing is, i would of liked to of heard the bass in isolation, maybe before and after the work too. 

3 minutes ago, Ritsugamesh said:

 

You've done a really good job there, very clean indeed! Agree that the unfinished neck looks miles better than 20 year old black paint that's seen too much action (at least is the case on mine!). 

 

I'd be tempted to do a slightly more reliced approach to the headstock transition personally, but mad respect for getting such a clean job done. I think I need to get researching on the best approach to sanding it down now, always get conflicting reports on grits, etc.! 

 

Cheers for the pics too, very enlightening and that looks like a lovely bass indeed. 

320, 500, 800 for the neck. By hand. Use a block on side of headstock you can tape both headstock sides and trim with a razor for added protection. I wanted to keep the originality of it being a USA subbass. But you could remove all the paint and apply a waterslide stingray decal. 

I also as mentioned sanded right to fingerboard/frets to take a tiny amount of width off. And roll the edges. I reprofiled, polished the fret ends. 

Easiest oil to use is boiled linseed. Takes a long time, days to apply even a finer finish. Just wipe it on and let it dry, first a few thin coats to let it soak in, then thicker coats can be applied. Not dripping off amounts!

Tru oil is good, much more durable, but can be messy and can go wrong but not in a bad way, but you would need to start again. Or of course lacquer it. 

9 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Interesting, I couldn't leave the front of the headstock painted as my enthusiastic stripping with acetone sloshed on the corners so all had to go.... if leaving the paint on the HS obv. best to sand the edges ( with hindsight!) 

You clearly just sanded the paint off the body too by the looks, not that I'm particularly thinking of stripping the body or anything at the mo. 

What oil finish did you use on the neck btw? I might consider doing oil rather than laq. Ideally though it would darken or "vintage" yellow the whole thing a bit as it's very white as is. 

Nothing else but 80 grit will make the finish come off. Especially the earlier version which I believe had a thicker application. 

Used a combination of boiled linseed and tru oil if remember rightly. Satin finish. Both oils tint then darken over a few days in sun. Not baking heat!

Note the nice Amber neck colour.

Was only a fairly thin finish as was the body paint. Wonder how the neck finish has held up. 

That looks more like sinkage if you sanded, applied filler then primer and sanded flat. Although the depth of it suggests it needed more work and primer, paint perhaps. Theres a bit of a dent in the upper horn. Something going on at the bottom.

I would of sanded 320, filled anything 320 then 500 or 600. 

Applied primer and waited 2 or 3 days then knocked it back. Maybe you did that. But as said there some serious depth to the grain and imperfections showing. Should of been very noticeable at primer stage.

No the depth of paint and clear coat is not enough to get rid of all the grain showing. Might improve it though. 

Instead of stripping it all as someone suggested just apply more layers till thick enough to knock out any imperfections. Though you will end up with a thicker coat which has pros and cons. Needs more colour not just clear. 

57 minutes ago, Ritsugamesh said:

 

Do you have a picture of yours with the stripped neck? I've got a USA SUB in white and have often found the painted neck to get a bit questionable after a long gig. It's definitely not leaving the collection so not afraid to mod it but would be interesting to hear/see the process/result! 

I also stripped the neck on mine but left the front of the headstock alone. It's very common for people to strip the back of the neck.

I then oiled the neck, during the stripping process I also tried to take a very very small amount of neck width off and a tiny amount of depth. Made it easier to play. But was still a bit to large for me. 

Mine didn't have any ugly looking wood either. And I don't think I've seen any with bad wood, actually maybe 1 on a us forum. Theres loads of info on these and people modding them over the years to trawl through.

You won't get any with flamed maple. Just very plain wood, which is OK to me. Even so it's better than the paint. 

Mine. Wish I kept it now! 

At work. Where I stripped it.

How they can look at the factory

I had the 4 string. 

As most know it's practically a fully fledged Ray.

Made on the same line.

Same pick up and electrics.

The bridge is actually the same but not stamped. 

Different tuners but still quality. 

Poplar wood body. No contour. 

The maple they used for the necks was of lower quality, but only from a cosmetic view. If you see these striped. 

And of course the famous, super durable, easy spray on, no finishing required finish. 

And stamped scratch plate being a USA sub only part. 

I believe they actually lost money on everyone they sold, hence then going to the far East made line. 

Pretty interesting mm history and there is lots of info about these. 

The only thing I wasn't keen on was the slab body. And I like a jazz neck. 

On a side note I stripped mine and had it refinished. It changed the tone, and I personally thought it sounded better with the original finish on. 

These will become more collectable so maybe worth keeping original???

Wow! I'm impressed.

Looks well made looking at the pics up close. Yeah maybe some cost cutting here and there, but it's a big spec, budget bass, which seems a funny sentence. 

What a looker! Being an anniversary might even be the first hb to actually gain in value, given some time. 

Personally I would rather have a Bravewood than a Limelight. I've worked on several of both. Actually no ive worked on 1 bravewood and only played another bravewood. But have worked on a couple of limelights.

And I just feel like the bravewoods feel better and have the better relic/patina. 

Not that I'm saying limelights are bad. 

But Bravewoods are a step up. But so is the price. 

Lovely bass! Well made and great looking. 

1.75mm E if measured at the 17th would be too low for me, by all of 0.5mm lol. You must have good playing dynamics. But also means the bass has no setup issues, as you would expect from a well cared for quality, early to mid 80s Tokai. 

I recently bought the ubiquitous art v3 tube mic pre, used. 

Came with a tad 7025 high grade 12ax7. 

Surprisingly decent. Can do clean to warmer tones nicely. And pushing the gain brings out more hair to out and out distortion. Which I actually found surprisingly useable, not brittle. Does add sustain and dynamics nicely, even at lower gain. With gain and output cranked the noise level was very low. Might be the 7025hg helps, which it's supposed to. 

Various voice settings do work and each has a slightly different if sometimes subtle effect.

My favourite is the warm valve setting. Seems to be higher output and warmer and more valve like, go figure haha. 

Maybe a little uneven in string reaction, I had to mess about with pickup height to get it more even. Not helped by the old strings I'm using. 

Gain control is not as linear as i would of liked. Very tiny adjustments needed at times, which i found a faff on. I suppose its just what you get when using cheaper equipment and the starved plate circuit design. 

Think I might try a 12au7, supposedly more linear with lower power circuits. 

Yeah it's not going to be as good as an ebs valve drive. But i think i actually like it more than a dha vt1 eq I had, which maybe had to much going on for me, so maybe my fault for not getting the most out of the vt1. 

For 40 quid used I think I got a bargain. 

3 hours ago, Pow_22 said:

Fender 7150 pure nickels are my go to rounds when i need rounds. As a flats player these are the only rounds i can tolerate

These are better for finger noise, however I find they go dead quicker than any other string I tried. Which could be a good thing but the tone wasn't for me. But certainly they have reduced string noise. 

2 hours ago, dub_junkie said:

Arrived this morning. Had an hour spent with it so here goes

 

The good: 

Love the colour, looks brilliant with the tort plate and matching headstock.

After a set up the bass plays great with no noisy electronics and I have zero complaints with the tones on offer.

No issues with the tuners either which appear solid enough. 

Lastly the weight is only

9lbs 2oz/4.14 kg. 

 

The not so good:

Fret ends were a bit rough (sorted now)

 

The bad:

Bass has been dropped in transit by the looks of it. Small chip on the end of the headstock which has taken a small piece of the paint off. At the other end the strap button has been pushed in past the paint and is bent slightly. Bass doesn't appear to have suffered any other damage. Not quite sure what to do now as the small cosmetic issues at both end of the bass don't bother me that much but they shouldn't be there. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Least now you can enjoy it not worrying about it getting marked. 

As others have said ask. For a discount. 

Nice looking bass 

An atk 300 is for sale in the sales section, if anyone interested. 

These are good quality made basses. Also they look cool without the pg. 

These later ones are not as heavy as some of the earlier ones. As mentioned in the recent atk thread.

At £240 for what looks a new bass, that must be a bargain! In fact I know it is. 

I had a lovely aria can't remember the model number was a higher end of the range, was large and surprisingly loud acoustically. Nice when plugged in too. But it was a bit cumbersome. 

Also had a fender hot rod t bucket. Much smaller than the aria. Perfectly audibly when played acoustically for home practice. And obviously when amped was as loud as you like. 

With flats the output will be lower.

I believe there's an acoustic for sale on here might be worth a look. 

Possibly in the past some seriously heavy duty flatwounds started lifting the bridge? Heat, moisture contributed?

Maybe bridge removed to fix an earth to bridge issue and the screws didn't feel right going back in. And they did there best with what they had?

Maybe some weird 70s experiment in tone and sustain haha. 

Wouldn't worry about the extra holes adds to the mojo right? 

Had an atk400 korean made, difference being the extra pu, a gift from a bc member actually. 

It was a seriously well built instrument. And as mentioned in the video, it was heavy! although that didn't bother me. The neck was pretty hefty though! 

In a multi instrumental recording it would be hard to tell the difference. 

Solo however would be a different story. It just had a different sound to it. 

But due to the pu location then it certainly gets in the ball park. Bit like a dimension bass or maybe a Warwick fna. 

I enjoyed the fun video. Nice playing too. Although it's always good to hear a bass in isolation too. 

Fantastic.

And it's great that you got the back story. 

I'm always thinking about what the back history is when I see an instrument. And more often than not its lost in time. Kinda romantic really. 

If you remove the sticker then maybe do it in a way it can be kept with the bass. Maybe mounted on card. So someone else in another 50 years knows the story. 

Very cool. 

Decently packaged too. 

Never played or even held a kramer, but having a go of one is on the must try basses list.

My favourite bass player.

Great bass lines, great tone for the time and the genre. 

To add in

Unusual playing style. The hook

Played with for most people a badly setup, unplayable bass, although I've heard some dispute the severity of the setup. 

Liked a drink, and had issues which really adds to the mythical musician stuff. If you like that kinda thinking.

Comes from a cool time music wise. 

Comes from a difficult time politically and ethically, that can't of been easy.