Twincam

I've played and worked on a few rays. 

Sterling SUB'S various 

USA Sub

USA STINGRAY various

PRE Ernie Ball stingray.

I think there all pretty good. Only gripe I had with the cheapest subs was the hardware was cheap, but it's a budget instrument and they had issues with having overly hot output. Now fixed with the newer Sterling headstock models. 

I prefer the 2 band models.

Not long ago, i upgraded the electrics on a bc members USA Ray. Pickup to an aguilar and a John East 3 band pre amp. Sounded really good! Perhaps some might think, it had lost some looseness and character. 

Very generally if frets are in good level condition, nut correct height and the neck pocket angle is correct, then string buzz in the first 5 to 7 frets is too little neck relief and ones buzzing after that  is string height at the bridge. 

Sometimes if only one string is buzzing then possibly there's a partially high fret somewhere. Can also be a warped neck. That's worst case scenario. Or a unlevel neck pocket. 

Check neck relief first. 

Unfortunately no way of knowing till its properly looked at. Certainly these do have an bias issue, it could certainly be a bad valve from shipping. Or it could be the seller knew it was funny. Could have cracked a board in transit or any number of other solder joints.

I would be inclined to want a full refund. If you got it at a really good price then maybe yeah take it to a tech or if and only if your competent have a look yourself. Bare in mind that you can get seriously electrocuted when an amp has been off for a long time nevermind biasing it while on! The biasing I doubt will of changed during transit so more likely a valve(s) issue. Thats if the seller is honest and it was ok prior to sending. However if it's not the valve(s) then the seller can say you've messed with it and refuse to refund you. And your left out of pocket.

It could be a valve came unseated slightly. I suppose that can be checked easy enough. Once again I can't stress enough that you can be electrocuted badly!!! Even while the amp is off. I know because I've been zapped by capacitor discharge and was lucky not to of been seriously hurt, and it also totally broke the amp. And I would say that I've got a fair bit of experience, rebuilt a valve amp and so on. 

Re Ashdown

Was at a multi band thing last year, just spectating I may add. They were having issues with the provided pa and no bass was being put through. Different bands had different equipment, up steps one bass player with a rik and old mag 250 1x15 combo. I thought no way, no way. I even sent a joke about the impending situation to a fellow bc member. 

Had to eat my words. Sounded fine and clearly heard. Band were not the loudest, certainly not quite though and it wasn't a large venue, semi open marque. I was impressed. I collard the bassist after and he said "he had never had to turn it up that loud before in 15 odd years" or something like that. In isolation it may not of been the best but it worked in a band. 

Atk didn't really do the stingray thing imo of previous owning one think it was a 400, plus working on a couple more. Lower and Higher end versions. Certainly doesn't feel like a ray either.

Sub ray 4 electrics in old versions are not great imo, due to clipping issue. You have to lower the pickup extremely low or mod electrics for eq to be fully useable. I've played an older one and a newer one. Other than that there alright, lovely slim neck, tone isn't bad, looks and feels like a ray. Seek out later China ones or newer versions with sterling on headstock and not large sub lettering if possible. These are ones with the better electrics. Might be best option if on budget.

The original Ebmm USA sub stingrays are pretty much the real thing, made in same factory, made with many of the same parts sounds like any other modern 2 band eq ray. Prices range from 300 to 500. Although people are trying to get as much as possible for them these days, might be a bargain still to be found. 

Used sterling 24 or 34 models of course too.

You could mod any number of ray copies with the exact same pickup position,style electronically to get that sound. 

49 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

More output and aggressive sounding.

Instead of mud? Lol

Think most of the basses posted already come in the most interesting looking basses group 😁.

I also think that sometimes you have to see and if possible hold something in person to really enjoy its form. As these instruments posted are often like or are a form of art. 

I think pro and cons if any would be player dependent.

Though from a setup string height point of view flatter boards tend to be able to get a tiny bit lower than the more normal radius boards and especially compared to vintage radius 7.25

3 hours ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Yes, the neo's are like pumping steroids into a pickup. 👍

I did it to an epi eb0, stock pickup is crazy low output, swopped the magnets with neo ones and it made a massive difference. 😀

 

I had an eb0 that other than the tone, and maybe the bridge I really liked. What was the difference? 

Was thinking of doing some experimenting with a rear twin jazz pickup. Bar magnets mounted to the bottom of pole pieces. E string magnets are just smaller snapped bits of magnet. 

Would it be worth removing the weak bar magnets and attaching little neodymium ones? 

46 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

I think this is probably mid 80s. As far as I know the Arbors were a budget line alongside the very decent Hohner Professional range. There wasn't a connection to 80s Marlins (the ones with the 12th fret fish inlay) at that point, as Marlin was owned by British Music Strings in Wales. Hohner later bought the Marlin brand but I think Arbors were long gone by then.

Not very interesting - but you did ask!  

Yeah something like that, I seen a arbor like mine in the 1987 catalogue so maybe that was there last year, Hohner Marlins started 88 I think. There is there is a marlin slammer model very similar to this arbor sb420. So I suppose marlins taken over the arbor budget range and maybe some more penny pinching taken place. 

By the way I do find this sort of info interesting. Soon enough we may long for the halcyon days of talking about this kinda thing ha. 

Wouldn't mind an old Horner professional. 

Tempted to suggest

Elvis Costello. Waiting for the end of the world. 

Rem. It's the end of the world as we know it. 

The Smiths. Panic

Lol

On 25/02/2020 at 08:55, uk_lefty said:

Some of the frets are rough as hell and quite worn... This may be going Fretless at some point in time. 

On inspecting the headstock lacquer cracking what do you guys think of this? I've given it a firm woggle and there's some play in there, but not sure if that indicates a structural crack that needs repair (something I can't do) or if it's just normal because it's a thin neck? 

The bridge is tarnished but the springs are still springy, I reckon it's still working. 

Serious fret board to neck issue. Adjusting the truss rod with strings on may actually damage it further! 

The truss rod needs to be set so the neck is straight then the repair to the fret board glued, clamped and left, Before strings are attached imo. Don't put to much glue in the truss rod cavity. Then worry about cosmetics. 

If the bass had a removable neck I would of offered to fix for free. As I'm nice like that. 

I believe that lacquer is just cracked. 

Franklin's original wood glue is excellent for neck repairs. And makes a stronger than wood bond it also sands and polishes nicely and doesn't mind being bent in the degrees a neck goes through. 

19 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

It's been a while folks but the virus and other things, mainly me getting my finger out, has lead to me procuring a part that isn't expensive but I think I can't progress the neck repair and check of the electrics without it. 

So now I'm looking for someone who's been hands on with nuts... 

This was the only one I could get in the right size. Do I need to fit anything under the screws? All the slots appear to be the same width too... Any advice gratefully received! 

From angle of picture that not is way to short. It should clear the fret board more. With the screw adjusted correctly the strings look as if they will be on the fret board. Never mind clear the frets. Obviously I'm just going on the pic angle. 

Just now, Woodwind said:

 I'm curious on your thoughts as to why this would be the case.

I've heard/read this before and on the face of it it doesn't make sense. The radius effects string to string height relative to each other, but string to fingerboard/fretboard height is unique.

I can see how plucking on the G and D string pulls the string into the radius, so with a tighter curve it could choke more, but then A and E etc are being pulled away from the radius (obviously this is reversed for plectrum downstrokes )

 

Is this what you mean by struggling to get a low action? that the tone becomes too inconsistent?

I've never played a tight radius board so  I'm from a position of ignorance.

I've thought about this and I honestly can't give a trully satisfactory answer. If you look at fender setup specs a 7.2 radius relief and string heights is much higher than for flatter boards. So they obviously also think this. And in practice I've had a few fender 7.25 radius basses came my way, and indeed they never setup as well as I would normally get a 9.5 radius. I can get them better than fenders specs but never better than the 9.5 basses. They seem to choke up easier and intonation seems harder to get right despite nothing being wrong with the instruments and being able to be adjusted in the same way as any other bass. 

I do have the theory that when you pluck the string side ways that there a slight interaction with the more extreme radius and the vibrational arc. That just isn't there with a flat board. 

I often get to work on much nicer instruments, but for some reason I've always been drawn to old, not overly commonplace these days, budget or tat equipment.

I also like rescuing unloved instruments in general. Often putting in a good number of hours. So I thought I would write about some of those that pass through my hands as they come along. And I'm bored! 

So introducing this Hohner arbor mx1, I believe 1987. Also known as the sb420. Korean cort factory made.

I enjoy it so much that I recently pulled the sale of this, in case some might of seen it on a certain auction site. 

I believe these were a precursor to the marlin series or ran alongside or one above the marlin range. Maybe someone knows better? As in the very late 80s I was 6.  No idea about the original price. On average these can be picked up for about £60 now it seems. I suppose it's the sort of instrument you would have as your first bass and so I'm guessing there were some bad ones about as well as the better built ones. These are not sort after at all, I think the marlin range gets a bad rep, however the arbor range get a tiny bit more respect, well 6 strings do at least. I think it has a bit of retro cool about it. If I seen one gigged though, I would wonder why would you do that lol. 

Specs. Birch ply body, very heavy. Candy apple red. Maple neck, 21 frets, rose wood board and 42 mm nut. Precision style front pu, double jazz, mm style rear pu. Vol, vol, tone.

Bought a bit unloved, and it was a bit dusty, some kinda filth smeared about, possibly mud and some other brown smearing! Haha. Clearly been well played in its past has some nice patina, a lot of nice front pu cover wear. Came with random rusty strings. Good neck with zero issues, working truss rod. There was a good bass waiting to emerge. 

Initial Work done. Cleaned!, fret leveling and recrown, polish, although the frets were not too bad. Board oiled with boiled linseed oil, the board was thankfully not absolutely dry and knackered. Setup. Good strings, kindly donated by a fellow basschat member. Some little dints and scraps drop filled. Bridge saddle screws needed cutting down as they stuck up despite the neck pocket having a shim, possibly from the factory. It setup very well and I find easy to play. Although I do find the g slightly close to the fret board edge, although It isn't, just my bad technique means I prefer the g to be a touch further from the edge. 

Plugged in, disappointing, thin and a bit weak sounding. Opened up the cavity. 500k vol, vol, tone mini pots. Interestingly found an old active buffer which wasn't actually attached. Looks like there may of been other mods done, treble bleeds, could of been from the factory. Non factory I believe tone cap fitted. 

So I clipped out all the rubbish and used the existing pots and wires, to make a simple standard jazz style circuit with 047 cap. Big difference! Much more output and not weak. Plenty of tones in there, some not so useable and some really good, gets a lovely growl. 500k pots so it can get very bright. Front pu is the better and seems ok constructed, typical p tone. Rear pu is x2 single coil jazz style side by side. Bit too scooped sounding for me on it's own, can get a lovely growling tone. Was found to be slightly microphonic. So I opened it up. Brass shielding plate revealed probably one of the cheapest pu construction I've see. Solid magnet across pole pieces on a,d and g. Snapped bits of magnets on the pole pies on the e string. Very cheap bobbin construction. All glued in place. I wax potted as best I could the whole assembly. Which improved things. However I couldn't get the string volume balance i like on the rear pu. I will add washers to the pole pieces. Front pu no issues. 

So tone sorted. What I like is the ergonomics it's a very easy bass to play, despite the weight of the ply body. Neck is lovely despite my preference for jazz necks. Hardware is a slight step up from budget, it's still holding up very well after 30+ years. I love the body colour and matching headstock, I also like the retro hohner headstock branding. Neck backplate is good quality and a nice touch.

Thinking about upgrading the rear pickups and fitting 250k cts pots. 

Next adventure in cheapo basses I hope to have some proper jap crap maybe lawsuit or something really pants from the catalogue. Some prices are on the rise so need suggestions for something cheap and interesting. Also wouldn't mind something eastern bloc.  

Switching pots to from 250k assumed fitted to 500k ones makes a good difference. Especially if replacing all of them. The effect can be from very bright to overly brittle, depending on pickup(s). If so just turn the controls down. 

No load pots I've not experienced. However they sound like it would be way too brittle sounding with the bridge pickup. At least fitting one of those though is better than bypassing the tone control as least if ever you do want to alter the tone you can do. 

After doing a lot more fret work and setups.  

.009 neck relief measured at 7th in the normal way and 2.2mm to 1.8mm string height measured at the 15th fret is approx what most players like. And pretty much any bass can be setup like that after the required fret or fret board work and even relatively inexpensive instruments can go lower, it's all in the fingers if you can make it work or not. Pickup heights can be very different. 

In terms of tone if you have very low action remember you can adjust the pickup down, If you prefer. Larger pickup to string distance I think gives a more rounded tone, to the expensive of volume, gain and some harder to explain tone nuances. Although basses setup with either higher or lower action also get a slightly different tone due to the way the strings interact with the fret board. Neither way is better than the other. Just different. 

The flatter the fret board radius generally the easier it is to get low action. 7.25 vintage radius I've struggled to get low actions with no matter what I've done. 

Guitars .009 relief, 2mm to 1.5mm action. Less variation between players. However my sample size is much lower than bass setups. Could be a pick thing.  

I want to start learning to do some routing. Just pickup and simple electrical cavities. Nothing fancy.

A few years back I did have a brief go, before selling the tools. And I just can't remember what I bought or details. 

Recommended me a suitable router, bits and templates. What size bits are best. I think these will be occasionally use rather than every day work. Where is the best place to buy?

I had a USA sub. Came in a neglected condition to say the least. I Leveled the frets and interestingly had to go over the g side once more. And I think if I remember it did take a good week long of fettling to get it right. 

Possibly the answer was the rosewood board was very dry and after oiling it had moved somewhat. It's a common occurrence on dry boards that are oiled around the time of a fret level. Interesting that both our USA subs had g side issues.

Another thing I've seen is buzzing caused by musicman saddles. The strings pull the saddles to one side more on some models the usa sub being one. That rattle can almost be mistake for buzzing. So playing about with the saddle might be worth a look. 

Also on my sub indeed a tuning head also rattled, finally tracked down as it was the actual knob part very slightly loose from the stem. Some gentle plier work and quality glue fixed it. 

If I remember right my usa sub achieved a approx action of 2.2 - 2mm e to g measured at the 15th fret, with a neck relief of approx .010 measured at 7th fret in normal relief manner. That's the very best I felt it could achieve without overly delicate playing. So pretty much a good standard setup. In comparison a vintage pre ernie ball ray and a new(ish) standard ray i did achieved only slightly better setup results after fret/setup work, approx 2.2 - 1.8 e to g and .009 neck relief. Not sure why the other models were marginally better as the USA sub is quality.

Having had some experience of the 2 and 3 band. I say go for it, its not hard to change back. I like the 2 band eq but in certain situations i imagine the extra control can help you find a good tone faster.

And I think both 2 and 3 eq sound great!  

Is the cavity shielded in any form? If so this also needs to be grounded. Else you can act like an antenna.

So ground wire from cavity to where the bridge wire connects. 

As demonstrated recently after I fitted a pre amp to a basschat members bass. Loud buzz even when bridge was grounded. So extra ground from cavity fitted. 

Slight update.

As well as setups, fret work and refrets, some electrical work, cosmetic damage.

I now can do solid colour refinishing, some metallic and candy colours. Neck refinishing.

Also snapped neck repairs.

Mobile setups and minor fret work NE England. 

Will be hoping soon to learn routing work, modifications. 

Correct setup sequence is nut height, neck relief. Then string height via the saddle, if the saddle is at its minimum and still the string height is too high only then should the neck tilt adjust be used (or a shim added on non tilt adjust instruments). After all this then intonation adjusted. 

Adding neck tilt should be kept at the minimum required for correct saddle adjustment. Too much tilt and the string to fretboard angle changes to much in relation to each other and it becomes harder to get a low action. 

Push down on the string behind the nut, while doing so play the open string in question, if the noise stops it's the nut slot cut too wide for the gauge. Or the break angle from nut to tuning peg isn't enough, this sounds possible since you have changed the bridge. Fix is to have more string raps around the tuning peg.