Oscar South

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1437302011' post='2824909'] I recently rehearsed with a modern blues and Americana project. Think Crusaders/Keb Mo/Delbert/Robben Ford/Bonnie Raitt. It never ceases to amaze me how good players can make basic grooves sound so good. [/quote] Couldn't agree more and it makes everything so effortless too. The guitar/bass/percussion for both of the records I mentioned was recorded live to a click with the separate instruments isolated, and the quality of the musicians involved made the experience effortless and a pleasure.

I understand that this area isn't for everyone, but I like to explore theoretical and speculative areas of music. Even if it ends up being impractical or outright pointless I like 'flexing the muscles' of my musical brain to keep things fresh, and it can be the source of new ideas or even genuinely new insight. Anyway, this post is discussing the possible existence of an 'Undertone series'. This is in it's essence a speculative mathematical inversion of the overtone series. Here are the first 5 notes of the undertone series including the fundamental: Freq | Ratio | Series 440 | 1/1 | fundamental 220 | 1/2 | 1st 146.6r | 1/3 | 2nd 110 | 1/4 | 3rd 88 | 1/5 | 4th This has generally been considered a speculative concept, with many researchers proposing that it's only possible to demonstrate through a process of arbitrary mathematical tone generation based off the overtone series. It has been discovered as a physical phenomenon however and is demonstrated in the following video, where the author holds a ringing tuning fork to a piece of paper. Sometimes the fork touches the paper every oscillation, sometimes every second, sometimes every third (etc.). [url="https://youtu.be/Gh8k_dcG708?t=58s"]https://youtu.be/Gh8k_dcG708?t=58s[/url] This creates the psychological effect of perceiving a series of descending frequencies which exactly inverts the ascending intervals of the overtone series. The overtone series is the perfect mathematical division of a fundamental frequency in ascending intervals. The undertone series is the formation of multiplying the fundamental frequency by values of 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. (can anyone tell me what the mathematical term for this is?). The resulting effect is an exact mirror image of the overtone series. An interesting speculation is that the while the overtone series is used to explain the existence of the major chord as a centre point of harmony through it's presence inside the first few notes of the overtone series, the minor chord is equally explained by the undertone series as a minor triad built on the subdominant exists in it's first few degrees. This also gives the emotive properties of major and minor chords a logical explanation, because the 'extraversion' of major harmony literally comes from physical existence of the overtone series in the outside world entering our sensory systems. By contrast if minor harmony is theoretically derived from the undertone series, then it's 'introversion' can be attributed to the fact that the most tangible case for the practical existence of an undertone series is in the internal psychoacoustic perception of pitch. I spotted this recently, which is a very nice composition based on the mathematically derived Undertone Series: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tysYkxX-jY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=3tysYkxX-jY[/url] Anyone have any thought, opinions or questions about this?

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I performed recently as a session player on Fretless and Upright bass for this record. It's very country infused in the rhythm section and especially guitar work, with a bit of a Celtic vibe to the vocals that contrasts really nicely:[/font][/color] [url="https://www.musicglue.com/ashleyfayth/shop/"]https://www.musicglu...hleyfayth/shop/[/url] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I heard the masters last week and it's a brilliant album. Unfortunately there is no sample online yet.. but if someone was to ask very nicely over direct message I'm sure I could send over a snippet! [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also performed [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]last year[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] more primarily on Upright bass on this wonderful record. It's more Singer Songwriter/Acoustic and has also a distinctly country appeal while mixing in other influences throughout. Fantastic fingerstyle guitar playing!!:[/font][/color] [url="http://www.garyedwardjones.com/#!music/c21ym"]http://www.garyedwar...m/#!music/c21ym[/url][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color] Any other particular favourites recently from anyone else? I'm based in the Northwest myself (first album listed was Parr St. S1, second was Orchard Studios which is a great place near Alsager). Include the geographic region and studio as it's nice to get an idea of what's going on and where!

Perhaps I made another by mistake when I panicked and went to edit the first one.. and just escalated things even further instead.. disregard.. (or delete)

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hit enter by mistake long before the content was finished.. disregard.. (or delete) [/font][/color]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1436721694' post='2820210'] I saw your post the other day regarding overtones. Very interesting. So how do you tune your bass ? [/quote] I couldn't tell you off the top of my head; the actual values have gone from my mind as rather than re-calibrate my tuner I've figured out which 'out of tune' position to aim each string for. I will run the maths and post about it at a later time if you're interested. I think the theory and mathematics behind the idea are very interesting and tuning each string this way to a different calibration does create a distinctly different feeling tonality.

Fair enough. I do think that it's a cool idea and I also tune my 'solo performance' instrument to the exact values for each pitch to achieve what '432' proposes to, because I like the appeal of this area of speculation in overtone based music.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1436719118' post='2820174'] I like to tune to A at 432 Hz. [/quote] If there even is anything to that theory, tuning to 432 in equal temperament would be pointless anyway. Overtones of the arbitrary pitch values used in modern temperament wouldn't hit the naturally occurring mathematical values which tuning to that number is supposed to achieve. You'd have to tune each string to a different pitch (for example F# at 428.6) to have the desired effect, which would then put your equally tempered frets 'out of tune'

http://www.aphex.com/products/project-channel/ http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec13/articles/aphex-projectchannel.htm This bit of rack kit strikes me as a potential gem for serious players. Incorporates a rack Hi-Z Preamp, Exciter and Compressor with excellent metering for a pretty reasonable price. I personally use an Aphex compressor and Exciter on the floor, both of which are on the way out, so it's a natural step for myself as I can also mount a rack tuner and my markbass head in the same unit!. Anyone else tried it out for bass?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1436540514' post='2819023'] What happens to all those spent batteries, then..? You use 'em like Lego bricks to build an out-house..? [/quote] I feed them to baby animals in areas of outstanding natural beauty

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1435444416' post='2808923'] I'm interested to know why you prefer batteries? Potential to run out at gigs, expensive, bad for the environment?! Lol Si [/quote] Never had any issue with them and totally sidesteps even the possibility of hum trouble. For years I've used a tuner, compressor, octaver and often a preamp/DI (plus active bass) on batteries. I buy a £10 pack of procells every 2-3 months and I've never had a pedal go mid gig (you can tell with a few hours spare anyway and I could easily drop out any pedal if I needed to). I can see why others would prefer a power supply, but for myself.. if it ain't broke don't fix it!

Cheers for the input guys!! There's so much interesting info here to digest and think about and it's great to see that people are interested. As far as actually figuring out all the possibilities to analyse, I just approached it logically and methodically. Right now I'm working through defining what harmonic implication all the possible structures imply (see the preview of the start if the spreadsheet above!). Any anyone who mentioned it is absolutely correct.. There is no 'mathematical' solution to a problem like this, it's more of a process. Here is the opening statements from the work attached (it's a little tongue in cheek ):

I'm looking at the combination of 3 open overtones and one stopped tone acting as a root. I'm not considering what stopped notes/overtones are reachable because the harmonics occur in multiple points on the string and don't need to be stopped, so you can just leave them ringing and then hit the root (5+ string basses also have more stoppable notes available under a hand span). I'm considering the first 5 overtones above the fundamental in this study (so up to the b7 of the fundamental). I do plan to expand to 6 string guitar and 6 string bass later, but for the purposes of this first exploration I'm looking at EADG and EAEGB (the solo tuning I perform in) [attachment=195888:20150708_114512.jpg] [attachment=195889:20150708_114655.jpg] [attachment=195890:20150708_114726.jpg] Eventually I'll collate all this info into a coherent format that documents the process and results!

Thanks for the couple of links guys, very interesting stuff to read and take on board. Correct that I'm essentially figuring out every possible variation of three natural overtones in combination with a stopped tone (on any of the four strings) and defining what harmonic structure it forms. I'll also organising them into keys and plan to touch on expanding the practicalities of the shapes.. all you have to do to blow the roof off harmonically is introduce the possibility of moving one of the natural tones using an artificial harmonic, so I'll see how much depth I can get into with that. I don't expect it to be as exhaustive as the other areas! I've found various 'chord dictionary' type things for natural harmonics and plenty of online lessons and things like that which touch on it. Lots of players that have pieces written using some of the structures. I've never found anything exhaustive however. Either way, the real purpose of this for myself is the process.. the level of detail I'm going into means that I've got a whole lot of overtone shapes and their harmonic implication imprinted into my brain and under my fingers!! (and everything else on paper should I need it) I'll share some of the work as I get into it, I've done most of the deriving and am just filling in (many) blanks on spreadsheets currently.

I'm working on a ridiculous and overblown study at the moment: I'm attempting to exhaustively isolate, define and practically organise every possible harmonic combination of bass guitar overtones played over a fundamental root. I'll share the info in time, as it forms into something worthwhile (it's currently just a mass of scrawled out notes and half finished spreadsheets). Anyway this section of the study is easy enough, just methodical and time consuming. What I'm looking for assistance with is that I want to acknowledge and incorporate the research other players have done in this field, whether it be through teaching materials or through their practice as research. My request is: "Can anyone willing please share with me any players who explore this style, any materials teaching or expanding on it, any insights or considerations that you think are relevant, and so forth.." Thanks very much, and I'll post updates on the progress as I go! Oscar

Thanks again for your insight. In the end (actually a lot sooner than I expected the process to take expected) I took a bit of a gamble and bought this: [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Yamaha_TRB_5P.html"]http://www.bassdirec...aha_TRB_5P.html[/url] It has 24 frets and it's neck-through.. (and having played a bolt on TRB for a number of years now I can relate to all the traits you describe of bolt ons) There were a couple of factors which convinced me to take the risk: 1. P/J pick config.. I've never played any pickup config that comes even close to the effectiveness of the Jazz bridge position for amplifying harmonics. 2. Piezo pickup, which are generally considered from what I've read to boost the responsiveness of an instrument and amplify harmonics extremely well. 3. Two switchable user tweakable mid boosts, which I can customise to accentuate the key frequencies involved for harmonics and tapping. 4. I've additionally ordered Status Hex Wound strings as I imagine the slightly stiffer strings will be further favourable for the response and harmonic content of the string. Everything other than the through neck (which the presence of a Piezo may nullify) seems to favour it for my uses. This was enough to convince me to try and give such a beautiful instrument a go, and I've had nothing but exceptional experience with the TRB line. The 1990 MIJ models are perhaps some of the best they're produced, so lets see how it works out! I'll post an update here after I do a bit of playing. If it doesn't work out.. I'll just have to sell it and try a Warwick Thumb!!

Hello! I prefer to run off batteries and all of my floor equipment is very battery friendly, but I'm yet to find a reverb that fits the bill. Is anyone aware of a basic/passable stomp reverb that doesn't eviscerate 9v batteries? Cheers! Oscar

In fact, if you have any commennts on scale lenth then that would also be welcome. The decision I'm facing is that for solo performance, I believe that piezo pickups would be great to fill out the natural frequency range, but most piezo equipped instruments have a neck thru build in order to enhance the bodies resonance.

Got ya, yeah that makes sense. Out of interest, do you have any experience with Piezo pickups in these playing styles?

Thanks for the input guys, very useful. The info about bolt on vs thru neck is interesting. I've heard a counterpoint that the reason for this is that the top and bottom (especially the fundamental) are more defined on a thru-neck, which proportionately reduces the mid heavy harmonic body. The obvious thought that this gives me is that with the appropriate EQ treatment the thru-neck's apparent shortcoming can be nullified. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

I'm in the process of acquiring a bass for the fancy trick solo playing I like to do on the side. Got a couple of quick questions in case anyone here can give me some insight into this. My requirement has been specifically 5 strings, 24 frets (it's very tapped harmonic heavy, so the full range is necessary) and pickups that can carry harmonics strongly. I am interested in the idea of an additional piezo pickup under the saddles. Professionally I play a Jazz 4 and the bridge pickup harmonics on this are brilliant but I don't like the 5 string fender models particularly much unfortunately. My current 'trick' bass is a Yamaha TRB1005 which is an absolutely wonderful instrument, and so I was thinking of tracking down a Yamaha TRB5Pii (although this is proving easier said than done). My questions are this: 1. In your experience, what pickup formats/positioning are the most favourable for amplifying harmonics. What models have you run into that have these layouts? 2. What models have bass featuring 26 frets have you run into? The extra 2 frets would be very handy for tapping those extra couple of artificial harmonics! Thanks very much! Oscar ps. if you're interested to see any of the trick stuff I've done, check this live session out! It's actually not using any harmonics at all, but is the best thing out there that I can link to at this time! [url="https://www.facebook.com/thenarrowboatsessions/videos/784785474940137/"]https://www.facebook...84785474940137/[/url]