DGBass

11 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

a loose mounting bolt on one of the speakers. It had worked its way so far loose that the captive nut had come free from the back of the baffle board

I had the same with a pair of BF 1x10s ( early 100s serial numbers) where t-nuts worked loose from the rear of the baffle causing an audible vibration in the low to low-mid sound range. Luckily the t-nuts stuck to the magnet assembly when they fell off and were easily retrievable. I was able to fix this myself but had to rotate a driver slightly to get fresh baffle as I could see the wood in the original position was splintered away at the rear and there wasn't much for the t-nuts to grab onto. The baffle board wasn't very thick. I did mail BF about it first time it happened but was happy to keep the cab rather than send it back. I was using an ABM 500 with my two 1x10s at the time and they always sounded fairly farty because I was driving them too hard in the low frequency dept and they didn't like that at all. 

I've decided to fully refurbish the 'porthole' bass cab I recently mentioned on another thread after finding out from its previous only owner it has had some interesting history. I'm happy about the porthole and port tubing aspect of what I hope to achieve however something thats always made me wonder is why some cab manufacturers use 'wadding' in their cab offerings and some don't. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency whether its in ported or sealed cab designs. Is there a specific scenario where 'wadding' is mandatory and is lack of 'wadding' in a cab just a cost cutting exercise? And does lack of wadding really make much difference, especially in ported cab designs? 

As examples, I once bought a Peavey MKIII bass combo which sounded very damped tone wise. It had a king size duvet shoved in the back and removing it totally changed the amp back to what I'd expect from a vintage Peavey combo. I also bought a TE 1110 ported combo which had about 20kg of four inch thick loft insulation in it. Again it was quite 'damped' sounding and removing the insulation changed the sound back to what I would expect a TE 4x10 to sound like. I've used Dacron  in some cab restorations in the past but never more than one inch thick wadding and I have noticed that it sometimes smooths out the bottom end quite nicely but it doesn't always have the same effect with different cab designs eg 2x10s or 2x12's. It seems to affect 1x15s most noticeably or that may just be my hearing. So, is it worth 'wadding' a 3 cu ft 'porthole' 1x15 cab with 1 inch thick wadding and what should that do to the tone if anything?     

Thanks @stevie, @Phil Starr and @Bill Fitzmaurice. It's sounds like a Kappalite in a box ( with a port hole) is the real world version of the dream. I have the feeling it wouldn't be a particularly small compact box either to get the best from a Kappalite. As an example, the box 'on the bench' at present that I calculated the tuning for is not much over 3cu ft internal volume and its not exactly small. When I have the time, i'd like to look further into a self build 1x15. For now, i'm going to experiment with some cabinet tuning basics using this project box.🙂

16 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

you can measure the specs of a driver if you have a a small amount of test gear and patience.

Thanks BFM. The Dayton kit looks very interesting. I've messaged their UK distributor. It's often occured to me that i'd like to get more into speaker box design if only to build the ultimate small compact and lightweight 1x15 cab. Its taken years of playing many different brands of bass cab to realise mostly everything is a compromise of some sort, whether its design, weight, or cost or usually all three. I can understand why the small lightweight cab market has really taken off and why most manufacturers centre their design efforts around 10 inch and 12 inch speakers. A 12 inch driver in particular is the perfect compromise of size and performance while still being able to fit into a relatively small compact box. But I see a trend where two are really needed in real life to feel the bass. So its a great sales opportunity for these manufacturers. Being an avid user of 15 inch cabs, the notion of a lighweight compact high performance 15 inch cab is more difficult. Perhaps thats why certain lightweight cab purveyors have no such 15 cab in their offerings and perhaps its time for a BC MK IV cab, the ultimate 1x15? Or has that been done? Some specs I have in mind - 600 watt, 4 ohm, ported and able to deliver a 35Hz to 5khz range, at least 100db 1w @ 1m sensitivity. No horn or tweeter and weighing 15Kg tops. And it has to fit into a small hatchback/town car. 5 kg for a high performance neo driver, 2kg for hardware and coverings, and 8kg for an enclosure thats strong enough and small enough to to cope with the rated power without vibrating, shaking apart or compromising the drivers performance and design parameters. It also has to retail at no more than £499 😉Some folks might scoff and say 'dream on' and they might be right. It's a nice thought and if something like that could be built, I'm sure the single cab fans who just like to feel the bass and dont really care about portholes would be interested. 🙂   

5 hours ago, stevie said:

You don't actually need the specs of the driver to calculate the tuning frequency of the cab. Just the internal volume and port size.

via the wonders of the internet and out of curiosity I did find something that gave an approxiamate calculation for the tuning of this box I have with the 18mm porthole.  It worked out at a cabinet tuning of approx 52-53 Hz. Sounds about right for a 15? Interestingly fitting a 3 inch depth port tube same diameter as the hole will re tune the cab to 41hz. I may experiment to see what different this makes real world.

Thanks that does answer the question. Its a 38 year old driver so i'm never going to find specs for it nowadays. I have searched far and wide but wasn't able to find a match. The cab is reasonably large and made from 18mm mdf from what I can see so port depth is 18mm. It's sounds fine although I haven't put any serious power through it yet. I'll assume Trace Elliot knew what they were doing at the time as the cab and speaker came as a package🙂 

I've come across cabs over the years which appear vented but have little more than a hole cut in the baffle and no port tube or mechanism behind the hole. Sometimes its rectangular, sometimes tri-angular, but mostly a circle. I have a 1x15 cab 'on the bench' at the moment which has a basic circular hole cut in the corner of the baffle, diameter 4 inches. It's always been that way as the previous owner owned it from new and assumed it was a proper porting/venting design( from 1985 ). My question to the learned speaker cab guru's is does a simple hole in the baffle with no port tube or anything behind it other that air have any real sonic benefit where increasing speaker performance eg low end is concerned? The orignal driver is a vintage version of the modern Fane Sovereign Pro cast frame type with an enormous magnet assembly and what looks like a 3 inch voice coil. Rated 250 watts rms 8 ohms. It appears to be quite efficient but i have no specs for it. 

I owned  DSL401 combo and it was a guilty pleasure playing bass through it. Lovely bright tone and being all tube had that sparkle thats difficult to really emulate on a sold state amp. EQ was fairly basic but a little graphic boost worked well. The crunch channel was very sweet sounding  and the stock speaker was a Marshall Celestion G12-100 so it could take a reasonable amount of bass. Curiously I enjoyed noodling with the reverb on. The verb isn't a common effect used these days on bass. Or is it?

1 hour ago, Reggaebass said:

Do all the SVT’s have a fan 

The CL's and Heritage 300w versions do and older 300w tube SVT's do. Its usually tucked in behind the front grille and is pretty noisy if the ones I've used before are anything to go by. Of course you dont hear it once the amp is doing its thing. I'm not sure what the rack SVT's have for cooling, might be a different arrangement.

Person D(G)😉 - I've grown to appreciate each 'decent' amp I have on the amp shelf and to use their on board EQ sections to suit my purpose. Whether thats an AH250 GP11, an ABM, or a GK 700RB. I have a few other 'decent' amps as well and all have strengths EQ wise. Thats my thing though, having a few different amps and to enjoy what they can each do while working out how to get the best from them.  My pedal board is now almost empty of bass effects/EQ pedals and I find that very liberating not relying on external boxes to shape a sound. But then I'm always supplying the backline and I can appreciate the need for a pre-amp/DI pedal option for shared bill gigs where I'd have to use what is on stage. In that case a good pre-amp box will carry your unique sound straight to the desk or into the line in/return jack of a donor setup. I don't need a seperate pre-amp box though, just more 'decent' amps!

7 hours ago, waaldijkh said:

HI, I'M LOOKING FOR amps without fans. or amps with fans that can be switched off

would that be brand new amps or potentially used/second hand amps and is there a particular use case eg home recording/practice or studio session? New amps without any cooling fan at all will probably be small output amps where cooling can be done with a big enough heatsink or by using the casing itself. Larger amplifiers these days do tend to rely on fans as its more efficient and much cheaper than having large blocks of cooling fin made from expensive alloy. Some manufacturers have always understood the need for a measured mix of quietness and cooling. Thermostatically controlled fans that only kick in when the amp is working hard are a great feature. Thats not as common as you would think but gaining more popularity. For example, Ashdown now thermostatically control the fans on their ABM range (they always have actually ) but only recently with an automatic switch on feature when it reaches a certain temperature. Warwick have been doing it for many years eg Profet bass amps which have massive block heatsinks and you really need to be using them hard to get the fan to switch on. Gallien Krueger are well known for thermostatically controlled fans that only engage under high power situations on their Backline and RB amps. They also have this feature on their brand new Legacy and Fusion heads. I still use an old GK Backline 125w head for home use and recording (great pre-amps). It has no fan at all and is whisper quiet. Just a huge heatsink that can cope with 125W. I'm sure there are many more amps that have thermal switch on fans but I can't think of any modern class D stuff generating a reasonable amount of power than don't rely on cooling fans. That's another class D conundrum, you can shrink the amp size into a small case but it still needs cooled. So you end up having to use small diameter fans that run all the time and at high revolutions. Some tube amps dont have fans but large ones often do as an aid to normal convection cooling( eg SVT).

Worst cooling fan noise I ever heard was on  Peavey T-Max I owned years ago. Great amp and super powerful but the fan sounded like a rusty old bag of spanners while running and it was on permanently. Could still hear it at gig volumes.

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

Also, i'm the only person that decides my out front sound

Yes same here and onstage sound is also to an extent irrelevant for me as I (choose to) wear strong ear protectors because of the high spl in my corner. The bass onstage is more feel than what any mids might be doing or can be heard doing. I guess i'm lucky to have been using the same basses and cab for nearly nine years and that's allowed me to fine tune 'a sound' i'm happy is doing the job out front for me and doesn't distract the rest of the band or have the audience gritting their teeth. I've recently ordered a wireless transmitter so I can go out front and check what the bass sound like at a distance. That was mainly because I changed just one item in my signal chain recently and despite me thinking it was EQ'd the same as before, it didnt sound the same. Different kit, different tone. It was an unintentional over abundance of mids that caused the problem. I might be pleasantly surprised or deeply shocked at what I hear out front when I get to use my wireless setup although I hope its the former. And here's hoping the wireless doesn't change anything either. If it does sound naff out front, then I'm sure someone in the band will be happy to twiddle a few settings for me. They're all a helpful bunch in that respect🙂

36 minutes ago, fleabag said:

 

Answer 1 :  You're having a laugh , i know. 

 

Answer 2 : I'm not using on stage cabs

 

Yes of course I am to an extent 🙂 and its only my experience of gigging. I can't recall ever doing any gig without a backline of some sort, maybe only ever in a recording situation where I was DI'd and that was all down to EQ set by the recording engineer. In those cases a good tone through the monitoring cans was never a consideration. A third person to the band ( the engineer ) had the final say on what sounded good and a monitor tone was all that was needed through the headphones to do the gig. In those cases I put my faith in someone else to decide where the bass and mids were in the mix.   

 

 

On 11/02/2023 at 10:32, fleabag said:

I can never get a clean sound by increasing the mids. So whats the answer ? 

I've never been a fan of the low mids are where its at thinking and have theories about where that saying originated. That being said and not wanting to court extreme controversy, its a fact in my experience boosting them gets you heard out front. But not always appreciated. And it might sound naff on stage. I've tried similar experiments at rehearshals and usually the band comment on the growly and sometimes farty sounding low mid honk that results. For the most part I boost low frequencies and scoop the lowish mids for an old school clean thump as it suits the classic rock covers we do. I've often had folk come up to me and say after a gig that the bass was just barely audible but more than anything they could feel it coming up through their bar stools and see it rattling the glasses on the table. That apparently i'm told is not so common these days amongst pub and club bands. Tales of growly and prominent bass tone that carries little weight seem to be common nowadays. Perhaps thats a symptom of modern times where we've all never had so much choice with lightweight gear and tone shaping devices to tweak the most from our setups. Everyone obsessing over the 'T'  word and how they sound when how the bass feels in a live situation to an audience and sits in the overall mix might matter more? Most people in an audience don't care about how the bass sounds and care even less about bass rigs. They do notice more if they can feel the bass and/or dance to it - imho.

I use a single large folder horn cab with a big reasonably decent excursion driver and a reasonably powerful amp. The band have a 2k largely vocal pa with some acoustic and kick drum through it so our amps are doing all the backline. The bass works the low end of the spectrum and I boost between 60-180hz, flat by about 340hz and then cut anything above that except for a little boost around 2khz to add a nice click to my flatwounds. Granted, i'm using a lot of power just to keep that sort of sound clean but it works well with a P-bass which has just enough natural mid content to still be heard. Also and importantly it leaves a clear sonic slice of the spectrum for the guitarists who dont boost any bass frequencies on their setups at all. It works well. With a proper PA support, I have to back off my usual low end settings a lot because it upsets the sound engineers when so much low end is coming off the stage.

So whats the answer? Well there probably is no easy answer and its all a sonic compromise. Maybe its time to dust off the old Trace elliot 1518 full range cabs, get back to feeling the bass and be able to boost lower frequencies knowing the cab won't complain because it can take whatever we throw at it. The natural mid tone of the bass can then surf on top of a silky smooth and clean low end wave without so much as a growl being heard. And if one (1518) cab isn't loud enough or struggling to cope then get two as is often advised on BC😉 You'll also need some accesories for that kind of solution eg a van and optionally a roadie! You will sound great though and growly low mids will be a thing of the past unless you choose to have them. 

First Westone Thunder I bought ( in 1981 ) was the Thunder 1 passive for all of £99 brand, new same finish as the pictures. I recall the sales guy in Thompson's Music in Glasgow saying it was criminally cheap to sell such a bass for that price. Thye caused quite a stir when they first appeared in shops. I bought a Thunder 1A the following year after trading the passive bass for it but never got the hang of the active eq and personally preffered the passive Thunder one. Both were fantastic basses back then and even now have a certain classy appeal to them. I wouldn't say no to owning one again if the right leftie came up for grabs. GLWTS!

The only time I played pick was with a stingray back in the day. That was an originals band doing rock/rap/metal type material. Been a fingers only player since doing classic rock covers and i've found finger style works just as well with a p-bass or jazz bass. It's all flats I string with these days and I find its easy enough to get plenty attack on the strings with fingertips and digging in when needed. Tweaking the EQ helps as well, particularly high mids.  

22 minutes ago, Woodwind said:

Where did you buy this DGBass?

Looks really neat

sent a pm with details. Hope that helps.

3 hours ago, The Simon Of OZ said:

a Evo I MAG 210H has come up second hand. It looks like it is sealed

Must admit I've not come across a sealed MAG 210 cab before, not to say there isnt such a thing. Early ones usually have the port along the front( to the left in the first pic), later ones its two tubes at the rear. The last cloth front ones were also rear ported. The positives with regards to MAG cabs is they do almost the same as the similar ABM's and are relatively cheap as chips which helps budget wise. A tasty good condition one is probably not going to set you back more than 60-70 quid. A tatty one about £40. ABM cabs are better build quality. Meant to add, might be worth contacting Ashdown again and hear it from the horses mouth so to speak as regards cab recommendations. They did have an issue recently where their web customer contact form was broken and hundreds of enquiries went missing. Thye are aware of the problem and are working through back enquiries. A phone call would probably be worth a try to get in touch again.

Very nice pair of basses. I've noticed a few lefty player plus models showing up for sale now and in several different finishes. The light finish looks more cream ( i think it call Pearl) than the polar white of the standard bass. Suits the torte pickguard better imho.The Player maple necks are really nicely finished on these basses and the satin back is smooth and fast. The slim profile is also easy on the hand.

If its the front ported ABM 1x15 wide combo then its probably an older version, maybe an abm 300/300 evo or evo 300. ABM combos were rear ported from evoII on. Ideally as has been said, a matching ashdowm cab of the same vintage would be ideal as it would hopefully contain the same ( blue line sica ?) driver in it. Some of the early combos had Celestions or Eminence as well with the black cone. MAG deep cabs like the 2x10 and 115 are also a good match as they usually had the same drivers in them if its blue lines. The Mag cabs are the same width as well so stacking one under your combo wouldn't look out of place. Stacking on top of wide ABM combos is probably not a good long term propostion as that thin plank on the top is strong enough to hold a long chassis ABM but not much more. I always say if you can't stand on top of a cab/combo without any cracking or splintering sounds, you shouldn't stack on top of it 😆 Assuming a regular sized dude is doing the standing on top. A lightweight 2x10 or similar might not be so bad but if its not Ashdown then you might fall foul of different speaker efficiences where one or the other will be lost or dominate in the mix. And it will look odd. 

One situation where a mix and match might not be so crucial is if you just want an extension monitor cab at the side of the stage or in front of you. Any old tilt back cab might then be a useable proposition.

The best ABM cab I owned and used was an older rear ported EVOII ABM 210H cab. Very solid build and could go as deep and low as any 1x15 ashdown cab I've tried. Good mid performance as well. The very large old school 1x15 ABM ported cabs are good if you like plenty boom and there are a lot about s/h for not too much money. The only downside is they are BIG and not easy to transport. I haven't tried the current pro neo compact sealed cabs or have any interest in doing so and that was mainly because of being fairly dissapointed with the cheaper rootmaster sealed versions. Small sealed cabs are not really my thing tbh and 4x10's are far too much hassle to cart around. If I was buying new and it had to be Ashdown, i'd probably go for the current ABM 210H or the 115H. If budget was limited something like a used evoII MAG 210H would be a useable option as they do almost the same as the ABM version.  

Regarding the wattage of your 4x10 combo, i'm aware of two versions of these early units. It looks like a Mk2 you have and i've seen ones with a PM2S output board( 2 x Hitachi Mosfets ) and a PM4S output board( 4 x Hitachi mosfets). The PM2S has a high voltage supply and gets about 150 watts at 4 ohms from the two mosfets however these were sold as 8 ohm combos so you'll be looking at approx 90-100 watts for the PM2S. Its a loud 100 watts though as the speakers seem very efficient. The extension speaker output jacks on the rear are also blanked off on this model as it was only intended to run at 8 ohms. I have one of the PM2S versions. The speakers in the PM2S version are Celestion TE C10-50L (50 watt) heavy magnet units. 

The PM4S version is around 150 watt as well and usually has at least one available extension speaker jack on the rear panel and can run at 4 ohms. The speakers are different on the PM4S version, I think slightly higher powered Celestions. The back panel is usually a giveawy as to what version you have.

As pointy as I dared go in the 1980s. All points rounded tastefully to avoid having someones eye out.  Still pointy enough though not to be able to stand up straight when leaning against a stack, or a wall etc.

I always use one of these. First rulle of plugging in anything at a gig. There was a time when I gigged big valve amps that I carried a calibrated earth loop impedance tester with me just to be super safe that I had a decent ground. It was a bit overkill but gave peace of mind. Most venues I play these days are pubs and clubs where they usually have to have electrical certificates of compliance for insurance purposes and wiring generally is very good. The little orange plug though is still peace of mind and if the supply is good and the ground checks out, I'm happy and haven't yet had any ground hum or interference issues coming out my speaker. My rack unit also has a slightly more sophisticated anti surge facility as well as a ground and supply check. I suppose next time you are at that same hall, ask to go back to your previous position and outlet to see if the hum is gone. If so its almost certain the other wiring where you got the hum is suspect.

I've been reading this thread with interest and it reminded me of a similar sounding setup used on an old Warwick ProFet 3.2 amplifier that I used for a time which had linear volume pots by design. I initially thought there was something wrong with it as the pre-amp and master knobs didn't behave the same as just about every other amp I had ever used. The ProFet had a clip led on the input and as long as I kept input position just so the clip led would flash intermittently or not at all everything was fine. That was usually around 2 or three oclock. The master was unusual as well and I'm pretty sure it was booming out all its power around one or two oclock but very quiet around nine or ten oclock when most other amps are getting noisy. These were notched pots as well so it was difficult to use the amp at low volume, one notch up was literally the difference between medium loud and full power. 

Changing the pots to smooth ones did help but I read that Warwick themselves sorted the issue in the Profet 3.3 with log pots. The older 3.2's never got much love but they were great amps once you understood them imho. If you've ever been servicing an amplifier and fitted a linear pot where a log pot once was or vice versa, you will realise how quickly a change like that can make an amplifier almost unuseable. For the OP I guess if you have a clip led, dont make it flash no matter what o'clock that is and I'm wondering if there is a manual for your amp with guidance on how to set the input and output knobs for best results? Fingers crossed the builder hadn't got linear pots mixed in with his log pots parts tray when the amp was built. 🤔