Chienmortbb

I used to have a BLX130 what a little beast that was. Always wanted the extension cab but never found one.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1409213476' post='2537452'] I've got a gig on sat with a TE210 500w combo... that is all the detail I have on it and we will have decent stage monmitoring so I am not stressing too much. The load-in will be a sod which is the only reason I am contemplating it, tbh, but I might through in another 210 to go underneath, if need be. Why does a proper stage think a 210 will be enough? It will surely get a caning unless the monitoring is really sorted and in the quick change-rounds that may be the problem. Far easier for the bass player to be able to look after himself and the band and that is one less issue for the engr to sort out in the limited time available. [/quote]Take the low sliders down rather than up and take the 2x10 with you and you will be fine.

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1401494048' post='2464318'] I suspect wooly thing comes from excessive bottom end boosting on the graphic allied to using the pre-shape. The pre-shape gives boost at 50Hz and 2k6 but also cuts around 400Hz (All low Q seemingly) so any boost on the graphic is adding to the already boosted low . The effect is further enhanced by that reduction in the low-mids adding to the amount of apparent bottom end. The classic deep 'smiley face' generally yeilds a poor result with a Trace as it's all boom and clank with nothing left in the middle. It might work for a certain effect but doesn't tend to work in a group mix. On 12 band models the first two / three bands are generally better as a cut - do we really need 30 and 40Hz as frequency components in our sound? On 7 band models it's a 50Hz slider with a lower Q which covers a similar range. For me it's a no so I save the speakers and headroom by reducing them in my sound. I treat them in the same way I approach PA, (afterall it's where they were developed from anyways) I'd never boost the lowest frequencies as it would murder my drivers and sap amplifier power without achieving much in terms of sound. 20, 25, and 31Hz are moot on my FOH graphic anyway as my HPF is in at just below 40Hz but a trace doesn't have an HPF. I believe this is where things go wrong as folk assume the left side of the graphic 'must mean bass' rather than looking at the numbers, understanding where and how those frequency components fit into their sound. I'm not trying to defend Trace here, put simply their products don't work for everyone in every situation but I do believe a little investgaton and an open mind goes a long way.. [/quote] Finally some sense!

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1401484963' post='2464218'] They went through a period of bad reliability, had a few and they never could keep working, shame sounded good, just did not lpike the built in smoke machine. [/quote]All manufacurers have a period of unreliability. Look at the Ampex PF500!

Lightweight is subjective. Government recommnedations are for a maximum of 25Kg for a single person lift ans 30Kgs is a lot heavier (what are these lbs things?). The first thing most go for is Neodymium drivers but they are expensive and not always ideal for bass. The 1 x 12 cab build diary on ( [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/227904-1x12-cab-design-diary/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/227904-1x12-cab-design-diary/[/url]) here is alomst complete and the current estimate for that is approx 14Kg and under £150. I strongly suspect that this will outperform all the cabs mentioned in this thread already except perhaps some of the Barefaced cabs and/or Bill Fitzmauricedesigns and Greenboy Designs. If you are really confident in your woodworking skills look at Bill's Jack Lite range. Plans will cost you approx. £10.

OK I have now checked and the MiniDSP amp can be used at 4 ohms but it is not recommended to run them at over 200W continuously at 4 ohms.

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1409078467' post='2536138'] I had a cab that was wired up at 16ohm. I then rewired it to 4ohm. The difference in volume was massive, when everything else was the same. I would suspect that if every other variable was the same then you would still get a noticeable volume increase going from 8 to 4ohm, but thats going to be a much more difficult experiment. Most peoples experience of running a cab 8ohm then 4 ohm would be just simply adding another 8ohm speaker which in turn will completely change all the other variables thusmaking it impossible to compare. [/quote] Assuming a good solid state amp, changing from 16 to 4 ohms is the equivalent of changing from a 100watt amp to a 400watt.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1408647578' post='2532253'] In the US it's SOP that the band provides the PA. The worse the job pays the more likely that you have to provide the sound. Since most bands don't want to pay for or carry any more gear than they have to the average PA is a powered mixer and a couple of cheap boxes on sticks, hardly something you'd run your bass through. The same applies to sound engineers, if you want one you'd better bring one with you. Consequently most bands mix from the stage. Maybe one in ten venues has PA, and those are mainly larger clubs in major metropolitan areas. Outside of cities you'll be lucky to find one in a hundred clubs that has PA. [/quote]In my experience it is the same in the UK Bill.

Just wondering about the benefits of a cast aluminium basket. Fane make a good looking 10" Sovereign 10-300 and a virtually identical Sovereign Pro 10-300 and virtually the only difference is that the slightly more expensive Pro has an aluminium basket rather than pressed steel.

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1408141170' post='2527645'] Anyone know of any decent plate power amps to bolt onto something like this? [/quote]there are very few full range plate amps available commercially. Most are subwoofer amps. Matrix do the GM50 ( http://uk.matrixamplification.com/amplifier-modules.html). Minidsp donthe PWR-ICE125 and 250. The matrix one is a Class AB amp and will get warm. The minidsp one is based on am Icepower Class D amp and will run cooler and also has DSP processing included. That may or may not be useful. I have heard that the Minidsp amps are limited to 6 ohm min when operating in bridge mode. I am trying to verify that at the moment. Evotec (www.amplifier.co.uk) have Class D ones listed but you will have to contact them about purchasing. However, owing to the hest issue, the extra weight and the difficulty in obtaining a good seal, I would not use a plate amp in a Bass Cab.

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1408461220' post='2530414'] I've heard mixed reviews of the 208 Combo, reliability has been and issue with them, but if you look hard enough you can find negative opinions on pretty much everything out there. The early batches of the MiBass 2.0 gear had a bit of a fault, which was easily fixed, but I've been very happy with mine. I think the MiBass would give you the option to expand your rig, if you go for the combo, or the head and cab, you could add another matching cab and get the full output from the head which would give you more than enough power for most occasions. IMHO, a MiBass setup will give you a lot more for your money than a standalone combo like the TC 208. Ultimately though, if you've got a chance to try the gear out, then go do that before you pull the trigger. Hope that helps dude, Eude [/quote]I have played the TC combos and while the 15 sounds OK the 208 has no real sound except a lack of mid bass punch. The 15 is really light but not small.

Any news on the next Bash?

I agree Lawrence. I think this is what Bill was saying. We have to think of the port as a spring, and varying either the lenght or area will alter resistance to the movement of the cone and hence the efficiency of the cabinet. Using ports that are too small will offer more resitance to cone movement and increased chuffing. Flaring the port will reduce the chuffing but will not alter the "spring" of the port. What might make sense is to use the correct port (17-20 m/s) but also add a flares. This will assure that even at full power there will be no turbulence. Unfortunately adding flares will lengthen the port as a whole and I suspect that the current design is tight on space for ports. The other issue is that the response lower down is affected by the overal size of the baffle. This would suggest that the depth be as short as is practical. This reduces the space for a port mounted either on the front or the back. I am learning all the time but is a side mounted port a possibility?

I don't think sound levels are a problem Phil but I wanted to be sure I specify my amp at a level that will do the cabs justice. So judging by your Hartke amp spec 350W into 4R is a good starting point. Incidentally I have the Sound Check 2 disc and meter that you can borrow if it is worthwhile. Details here http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/25-244_SOUNDCHECK-2-TEST-AND-DEMONSTRATION-CD-Alan-Parsons This shows the one without the response analyser but mine has the response analyser included. PM me if interested.

I was thinking that, only launched a Namm this year.

I did say maybe...... I am just wondering about the power requirements and sensitivity. Phil, what is the amp or amps you have been using in testing? My calcs suggest about 250 watts to achieve 120 dB SPL. So would you recommend 250W into 8R for one cab and 500W into 8R? I am going to build my own amp soon and may do a similar build diary.

I think this proves what many of us knew the Ames will go way way down but the very low stuff is not realy good for real world gigging. Alex designs for real world playing good work although it may have been beter if you had made it a blind test.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1407275826' post='2519172'] Im no expert but as I see it in laymans terms the problem with your calculation is that you are working on the 100 watt amp running flat out, constantly, I suppose if you did that your theory might work until the amp or speakers died but in real world terms how much wattage is an amp putting out during a gig? [/quote] The amp power is not important except, as Bill says, that it can cope with half the impedance (yes I am talking of two identical cabs). The more I think of this, the more I think of other parameters that may affect matters. It there a different effect if the cabs are stacked vertically or side by side. I think I may have to get some cabs out and measure. Don't hold your breath though as the cabs are at the back of a very stacked garage.

It is often said on here that if you have two cabs rather than one it is louder. Is that really the case and if so is it always the case? I am not trying put over a point here it is just that in some ways that statement makes no sense and in some ways it does. Take for instance a Valve/Tube amp running into one cabinet at 8 ohms it is a 100 watt amp running at 100watts. Add second cabinet and switch the impedance switch to 4 ohms and at each cabinet will recieve 50 watts is all else is equal. Added to gether we have twice the speaker size in both driver ans cabinet but the same power, so no extra acoustic output, the SPL is the same. The only difference is that the new cabinet is closer to the player's ear so it will sound louder and have more mids and highs. So that would suggest that only the player will hear a difference. If we do the same trick with a well specified solid state amp it is different. If the SS amp has a meaty power supply, the two speakers would each get 100 watts and there would be a 3dB lift in power and presumably SPL. However in this case we have upped the power as well as adding a speaker cabinet. Be aware that many amps skimp on the power supply and the giveaway is if the 4 ohm output in only a few tens of watts higher than the 8 ohm output rather than double. It may be that speakers get less efficient as you drive them harder ( a stretched surround is harder to pus that a relaxed one) or it could be a reduction in power/thermal compression, some form of maybe the combined size of the two baffles helps with bass response. So my question is are people talking about the second case where there is a corresponding increase in power or is there some acoustical magic that happens when two identical cabinets are used instead of one, even if the power feeding then is the same?

I know Alex at Barefaced used the 3012HO in some of his earlier designs so it is a good speaker, but whether it is worth the extra £100 over the Beyma, I am not sure. I think the Beyma will have the edge The weight is about 1.3kg lower than the Beyma but at under 15Kg, the Beyma loaded cab is no heavyweight and looks favourite to me. Now I will shut up...maybe!

Thanks for that Phil.One more question then I'll leave you three to finish the design. Have you tried any other driver in the cabinet? The reason I ask is that modelling them in WinISD Pro Alpha, the Beyma seems to win on almost every criteria. Will that be the defintive driver? BTW what software is Stevie using for modelling?

There is no reason why a 2x10 should sound better or worse than a 1x15. All drivers and cabinets are different and if your 15 has a similar rsponse on and off axis to the rumble's 2x10 and the same sensitivity, you will be fine. The problem is that no one publishes the figures. Bill Fitsmaurice will probably say I am wrong and if he does he is more than likely right but two wrong 2x10s will sound bad and so will a mixture of cabinets with unmatched drivers. If the two enclosures are identical and had more than a 100 hours or so use, they should work well together.

Again depends on when and where as Exeter is a real trek from Poole,

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1406985707' post='2516449'] They don't. An undersized port can cost you 3dB. By using a flare you can recoup some, if not all, of that loss, but it won't give you 3dB more than a port that's correctly sized to begin with. [/quote]I was paraphrasing the blurb on the Precision Ports site Bill and my worry always was that, as in plumbing, the flow is dictated by the smallest bore in the system. Whilst turbulance may be reduced, the air velocity and c the pressure is still high. So is this treating the sympton rather than the disease?

Ports. Flared ports supposedly give you an extra 3dB so this should mean you could work with an air velocity of 30+ and not suffer the turbulence we hear as chuffing. However there is only so far you can take this as you cannot fight physics. Precision ports would put about £30 on the project price and that seems to to defeat the low cost of the driver. Duke Le Jeune recommends a diagonal 45 degree cut on the inner end of a straight port to give a larger area at the port entrance. This adds one port radius (ie 37.5 mm for a 75mm diameter port) to the length of the por but as the air move both ways, this may not be as effective as the correct sized port. At least with a slot port you only have one large round hole to cut.