MiltyG565

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361197457' post='1982558'] Brilliant, and oh so relevant. [/quote] Not really. For one, there is no price tag on a cold.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361197842' post='1982568'] Too late! [/quote] Hah, very much so! [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361197701' post='1982565'] I can't really explain why that is so wrong on almost every level without coming across as a really smug git, so I'll just suggest that there are far worse ways to earn a rather decent living. [/quote] So my opinion on what i think of IT as a career is also wrong?

[quote name='Tricycle' timestamp='1361197341' post='1982555'] Had a little google- there are quite a few really, i had no idea- mostly CF moulded over wood. Now i'm tempted to buy a knackered cheapo bass and have a go at a bit of carbon laminating! sounds like a recipe for disaster! [/quote] It almost certainly would be Don't feel bad though, carbon is cool, and mistakes are human, so who could blame you really?

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1361195824' post='1982519'] The company I work for is a creative agency and we often use that diagram (jokingly) to describe our dealings with clients over design decisions... often a merry-go-round but without the 'merry' part! PS: I've started to get towards a decision on the pickups/electronics (cue drum roll...), so I'll be updating y'all on that in due course. Stay tuned for the next exciting installment! Etc. [/quote] The drum is rolling, trust me

[quote name='Russ' timestamp='1361193601' post='1982456'] The whole notion of "making it" is nonsense. Someone who plays in a pit band for a West End show has made it. Someone who plays in an orchestra has made it. Someone who gigs covers for a living has made it. It's not all about groupies, drugs and throwing TVs out of hotel room windows (not that that side of it isn't fun ), it's about making a living. Never got to that point with it myself - even when I was in a signed band I still had to work a day job. It's almost like I don't want to though - to me, once playing music feels like work, that's when it stops being fun. [/quote] Exactly my point. These guys had no idea what being a musician was opening you up to. All they saw was high profile rock stars, and how difficult it is to get to that level, especially if you aren't very good and are just playing something that sounds like somebody else. It's a very common fallacy, but one that shouldn't exist. I was told to "Stick with IT", but i bloody hate IT with a passion. If i had to work with computers all day, i would stab my eyes out with rusty old needles.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1361192325' post='1982432'] That's great, and I'm glad some are able to do it. When I mean 'make it', from my point of view, I wouldn't want to be a session musician or teacher if I was in music as a career. I'd want to be in a large sucessful band, that I'd written music for to some extent. Childhood dream, probably shared by millions! [/quote] Oh, who wouldn't? Although i think being a really massive rock star isn't as glamorous as it might seem. But this term "Make it" gets thrown around a lot. Make what? what, as a musician, is the goal that we are all supposed to be aiming for, this "It" that everyone refers to. Sorry, but if i can live comfortably off my music, frankly, i have made it, and everything after that is a bonus. A year or 2 ago, my friends tried to say that i shouldn't focus on music as a career because very few people "Make it". I had to point out that they clearly know f*** all about music, even at a local level and that they should stop trying to dictate how i should live my life. I'm not saying that they were wrong, but they obviously don't understand the very many ways that we as musicians can make money from our skills.

[quote name='Tricycle' timestamp='1361190773' post='1982399'] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/25488-miltyg565/"][color=#282828]MiltyG565[/color][/url]- you just might just be my new best friend. you lucky so and so. I may as well have just signed over half my paycheck to CRC every month for the last couple of years. I love you guys! Now you've got me wondering if anyone has ever made a carbon fibre bass. Probably not, to be fair, there aren't many benfits and chances are it'd sound like sh*t! [/quote] There are plenty of carbon fibre necks! I think status might have made a carbon body, although it could just have been carbon fibre look. Ah, you keep us in a job If you ever get a box delivered that's a bit smashed looking, i swear it wasn't me! I'm on sick leave I normally deal with deliveries to the warehouse, so if the packaging isn't in good condition when i get it, god knows when it happened. You should come over to Northern Ireland and go visit the CRC shops. They have all manner of bikes hanging on the walls. I think they even have a custom shop behind the shop.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1361190263' post='1982389'] I wouldn't dream about trying to make a career of being a musician. Far too unstable, and barely anyone truely makes it. [/quote] If it makes me enough money to live on, i don't mind not "truly making it".

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1361189827' post='1982379'] Sorry, I was just reacting to your previous comments about how musicians can make money from the digital economy. I didn't mean to derail your thread. I'll shut up now, because I'm obviously getting on your nerves by disagreeing with you. [/quote] Ok, so just focus on the part where i said it wasn't the point? You weren't annoying me at all by disagreeing. I wouldn't have posted this thread and expected everyone to just share my view, i'm not naive. You can blether away, and i'll blether back if i see a need to.

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1361185775' post='1982284'] I have been writing and recording music for many years including 10 years signed to EMI. Now I produce music with a band on basic gear in my front room. We make our own CDs to sell at gigs and via other outlets. We don't sell as many as I used to, but we make more money than we would if a record label was taking the lion's share and all our profits go straight to us. We give away our music freely for anyone wanting to download it and this has led to airplay and gigs in various new territories. Airplay has always been the most lucrative form of income for most musicians like me, currently the BBC pay approx. £15 per minute for radio One and around £1.00 per minute for local stations. There are many thousands of radio stations all over the world and I receive revenue from Japan, USA, Europe and the far east, mostly due to people hearing our music from free downloads. Only last night, I had an email from a national radio station offering to play our music - I will inform PRS and they will collect our royalties. We also play gigs and festivals, for which we receive fees and PRS royalties, which increase with the size of gig. There are other ways of making money in the music business, but this model suits us and we are in total control of it. There are many other musicians like us, using the new models to produce and distribute their music, instead of moaning about the good old days. I believe this is the best time ever to be a musician, with so many ways to take control and get your music heard. We would have been amazed back in the 70s to think this would be possible and I am happy to be part of the revolution. We don't do it to make money and we are not rich, but we are happy [/quote] That's great, and i'm happy that it's working for you. But this thread was more born out of getting music that hasn't been paid for when it should be. It has gone off in a bit of a tangent, i admit, but i never said that you couldn't be successful in the music industry without a label. That would just be a load of balls, and you are right, there are plenty of ways today to make music, and to make money from that music, and yeah, i wouldn't know about the past really, but it probably is the best time for music. With regards to the loan shark marketing labels- it's a bit of an over-simplification. They provide a service which is quite effective. No, they aren't the be all and end all in how to be successful in the music industry, of course being signed means you need to work incredibly hard to make it work, but they will provide the collateral and marketing that you need to make a great album and to get it out there and heard, so that they and you can make money from it. Yup, you definitely can do it all without a label, but they are still relevant in the music industry today. But this still isn't the purpose of this thread.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1361183298' post='1982232'] if i was a plumber, my paid performance would be fixing a sink, but i have to invest time and effort into buying my tools, which i will get no direct income from ever again. after i've fixed the sink i wouldn't expect to earn money every time people drank from it. [/quote] See my original post. [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1361183298' post='1982232'] but now you are making out that recording is the only element a band uses to make money, which just isn't the case. the real money makers for bands are touring and performances and then the merch to go with it, which has been the case for a long long time you have to have the songs to offer something to perform, otherwise 4 blokes standing around for a while isn't much fun. [/quote] No i'm not. Some musicians just record and don't gig, so yes, CD's or digital downloads and maybe a bit of merch is most of their income, and others gig heavily, but regardless of that, sales of the recordings make them money too. Dude. we really aren't disagreeing here, you're kind of just taking things that i have said out of context.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1361181249' post='1982177'] sorry mate but that comment is bollocks. musicians write and record for themselves, cos they wan't to. money isn't the driver behind it. how many of us here spend time and money in the studio with the intention of making money from it? i spend hours writing and recording, and have spent a lot of money in studio's and tours with no expectation of making money, if people have thought my music good enough to pay me for then fair play. but i as many muso's do it cos i love music and not money. if you are going into a studio to make music for the soul intention of making money... then you are in the wrong game [/quote] Of course you are completely right, but you have to look at that in context of everything else here. I agree with what you are saying. I have made my own recordings, and spent a lot of money on buying equipment to record, and spent many many hours researching how to record etc. and i have never made any money from it. But if i wanted to make writing and recording my life, it would be a waste of my time recording it if i was going to give it away for nothing. Writing, sure, write away, you can play those songs live, that would be cool, wouldn't it? yup, it would. But how could you continue to record music, given the time and amount of money it costs to to record, if you won't be able to recoup some of that expense? It's unfeasible and unsustainable as a job or source of income. Of course, it's not just about that, but like i said, how can you do it if you don't have money to live off so you can spend time writing and recording?

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1361175835' post='1982109'] There's a lot on here about musicians and the record industry being somehow separate. It appears to have slipped some peoples' minds that a lot of artists own their own labels. Musicians ARE the industry in many cases. Here's what Michael Gira of the Swans has to say about his label now: "It’s unsustainable. And in fact, I’m very proud of what I’ve done with Young God Records, helping people like Devandra Banhart and Akron/Family and James Blackshaw. Helping all these people either gain or expand upon an audience and really investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours working with them. Helping produce their records in many cases. Five years ago I could sustain it. I was getting paid for it so I could live and do the work that God meant me to do. But now, at this point, I’m not continuing the label because there’s no money. I can’t do it. So the people who are on the label right now I’m continuing to work with, but I won’t help anybody else. I won’t bring anybody else into the label because it doesn’t pay anymore." [/quote] I completely agree. There are obviously some very intelligent people on this site, but i think sometimes their intelligence overtakes themselves. Of course the music industry and musicians are ying and yang. The part about asking somebody to invest in something you wouldn't is bull- the amount of money it takes to produce a high quality album, and then marketing that album costs an absolute fortune. Unless you already have a fortune, or assets which you can secure a loan against (which puts a lot of risk in your hands, and you are never the best judge of your own work. You could have something you think is brilliant, but nearly everyone else thinks it's horrible, you will likely loose whatever assets you have you loan against.). Record labels are needed. To say that they aren't involved in making music is just silly.

[quote name='Tricycle' timestamp='1361116112' post='1981235'] Been lurking for some time so i thought it about time to pop my head above the parapet and say hello, as you seem like a friendly bunch. So Howdie! I'm recently back into Bass after having to do a total sell up 3 years ago due to indescribable poverty- however i'm back with a vengeance and it certainly is nice to play again. I can already see how GAS is going to pop me right back into the red pretty sharpish, although my grown-up job should get me a bit further now. In fact. sod it. the girlfriend can pay the rent- i'm off to the classifieds! [/quote] Welcome! Bass and bicycles, eh? Well, i play bass, and i work at Chain Reaction Cycles You should change your name to Bassycle. Anyway, enjoy

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361108155' post='1981102'] Went for £130. That's a bargain, and shows you why Collect Only isn't always a great idea. [/quote] Absolute bargain. Would have absolutely loved to add it to my collection. It should probably have gone for around £200, but as you say, this is why collection only isn't a good idea. I hope whoever bought it realises the bargain they got.

Any aspirations i have as a musician are based firmly around recording. I'm not saying that i wouldn't tour, but i would like to write and record more than gig. I certainly wouldn't go on a 3 year every-city-in-the-world tour.

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1361167229' post='1982047'] Hey maybe musicains should make money the old fashioned way. ie: playing live for a flat fee, a percentage, or selling tickets. Back when Rock n Roll was just a twinkle in his [s]japs[/s] dads eye, the only way for bands to make dosh was to tour. which they did constantly. All you needed was a manager (with a trusty cricket bat.[i] Just in case[/i]) to make sure the band were paid in full. surely not such a bad life ? [/quote] Not a bad life, but you wouldn't waste time in the recording studio to make a recording to not make money from it. It would literally get rid of a lot of business. Let's be honest, how many bands do you have on your iPod, or whatever you use to listen to music? So if they were giving out the recordings for free just on the idea that everybody who accepts one will attend a gig at some point in the bands tour, the venues would need to be massive, the tours would be endless, and everybody would be spending an absolute fortune on going to gigs. Obviously everybody would love to go to every gig of their favourite bands, but it's just not reasonable to expect that. [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1361147346' post='1981990'] I started off basically in favour of protection of copyright work, but in these discussions, the arguments for were incredibly weak, entirely reliant on false analogies, pretty much brought me round. The persistent use of 'file sharing' to avoid the false term 'illegal downloading' in the UK when taking an anti positionshows up the nastyness, since sharing is a good thing. [/quote] I think you will see from the first post that there are equally as false analogies on the other side. I would say those arguments were particularly weak. Lucky for you, you make a well reasoned argument. I have agreed that most of the analogies are fairly dubious, but that doesn't always mean that the views behind it are necessarily right or wrong.

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1360976550' post='1979480'] Hey Milty. The wood is on order... Paul (13 Guitar Co) has a couple of other builds about to start in addition to this one, so he's just waiting for those to be decided before picking up the materials for each in a single trip. Once that's done it'll be underway. In the meantime I'm still chewing over different types and brands of pickups & electronics. I'm coming round to something like an ACG EQ01 (as discussed above), but there more I investigate the more options crop up! Still got some homework to do there but I'm narrowing it down. I've also got make a decision on the string spacing - which should be fairly straighforward - and after that I [i]think[/i] we have everything covered. At least the important stuff. I'll keep you posted mate [/quote] Good, good! [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1361150664' post='1982016'] [/quote] Story. Of. My. Life.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1361138328' post='1981812'] Ha, so not anyone who actually makes music then. [/quote] Of course it affects people who make music. [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1361138622' post='1981821'] So why does this upset you so much? Do you think the music industry appreciates your concern? [/quote] I expect people to do the right thing, and not actually argue that they should be allowed to continue to not pay for something which they enjoy which should be paid for. Just because somebody can make a perfectly good argument as the why they should do it still does not mean that they should.

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1361137720' post='1981789'] Why are some people here so upset about file sharing and what harm is it doing to them personally? Plenty of people benefit from it, but who is actually losing all this money that you are all so worried about? [/quote] Oh, nobody really, just record companies, the people who work with record labels and the music industry in general.

[quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1361136711' post='1981769'] But that isn't the same, in your example the shop is losing a physical item that they've bought on credit, and are hence losing money. With downloading an album, nobody is losing anything, the band aren't losing the ability to sell records because the potential for digital copies is infinite. [/quote] I know, but what they have is people with copies of their work that was supposed to be paid for, but wasn't. So in principle, it's the same, if not in reality.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1361133365' post='1981678'] You think its OK to try and not buy because the shop still has the guitar after you tried it? [/quote] Oh, stop being so pedantic, would you? Of course it's alright, especially when the shop has a sign saying "These guitars were made to be played, so give them a try". Trying them is what leads to a sale, as i agreed with Bob, there's nothing to be gained or lost from trying something out, but the way that it is done for some people, i don't agree with. What if i went in to the shop and said "Hey, i might like that guitar over there, how about it take that home, and play it, and if i decide i like it, i'll come back and buy another guitar."

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1361129394' post='1981560'] Home cooking is killing ready meals? [/quote] No, you're being pedantic.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361130427' post='1981588'] Actually, I didn't read that as Mr Foxen's personal take on things (though it could be). I read it as applying to everyone. Unless someone happens to like absolutely all music , then the statement is essentially true for anyone. I know it is for me. [/quote] Yes, but what somebody considers rubbish, another person will consider brilliance. This isn't about what you think about music, it's about why some people think it's OK to pay nothing for music from their favourite artists. I don't agree with it.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1361131078' post='1981609'] Do you buy every guitar you try, or do you actually decide most of them aren't worth the money? [/quote] Some guitars, i like enough to buy, some i think are OK, but i would be happy enough to not own it. Some i wouldn't ever buy.