Mateybass

I'll have to watch the extended version to see what you all mean. I did think Sting was disappointing, his diction for singing in a folk stylee (where telling the story is so important) was poor and couldn't catch all the words. Regarding only having spent £100 on instruments... I used to have a couple of Wals, lovely build quality but never liked the processed sound that came with the Custom models... I think the early and cheaper ProIIe sounded much better. These days, I search out the cheap end of the market. Build quality may not match the Wals of this world but when I find a decent sounding one and visit a luthier, they play great too. One cymbal stand knocked over on stage and a chipped headstock/body on a £150 instrument is easier to live with than one costing £2500. It's not a competition about how much it costs, it's what you do with it.

[quote name='OldGit' post='636707' date='Oct 26 2009, 09:01 AM']I'm a Stagg user. Not modified so I'll be interested to see what you do Mateybass. Iw as wondering if that was a 5 string Stagg in yoru avatar... I'd like to know about sorting the nut ... Meanwhile, it's a perfectly good first upright for people not sure. For about £250, used, you can work out if you are going to like playing that way.[/quote] Yes it is a 5 string Stagg, probably the only one in existence More photos [url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/52673786@N00/sets/72157622373166073/detail/"]here[/url] Sorting the nut is fairly straight forward as it's plastic, like a guitar. A set of suitable files or a friendly luthier will sort it.

[quote name='tonybassplayer' post='636472' date='Oct 25 2009, 08:45 PM']By co-incidence I have also just got the urge to purchase an electric upright as I can see the potential for adding low volume daytime sessions in to our wedding repertoire. Think I will just dip my toes in to the budget end at first and the name Stagg seems to keep cropping up Any thoughts ??[/quote] Yeah, I've got two Staggs now. I converted my first one (bought new from iMusician for £285 earlier this year) to a low-B 5 string and whenever I play it, I receive very favourable comments from other musos about the sound. The second one I bought for £50 with a broken body but it glued back together just fine with just a small piece of wood routed into the break to strengthen it. I'm toying with the idea of converting it to a high-C 5 string.... but then I might just leave it as a 4-string. For the money they're pretty good if you can get them set up properly. The nut is usually cut so high you could drive a double decker under the strings at the nut. It's made from plastic so is easy to do and once done, the dot markers are much more accurate. The bridge is height adjustable so a fairly low action can be achieved if you're coming from a bass guitar like I did. I'm slowly raising the action as I get used to it so I can "dig in" a bit more. The other thing you'll need to do is to line the electronics cavity with sticky-back foil to eliminate the hum. Some have cheap jack sockets which don't make a great connection but it's easily replaced. The strings that come with it are perfectly good (similar feel to my Thomastik Superflexibles) though some report broken g-strings which is probably caused by badly cut nuts. If you replace the strings, you'll probably need 4/4 size because of the extra length between the bridge and string anchor block (my Thomastik low-b string was a 3/4 and the silk winding had to be modified to clear the nut) .... oh, and you'll need to wedge some foam under the strings between the bridge and anchor to stop them resonating whilst you play. I'm currently compiling a pictorial modification procedure [url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/52673786@N00/sets/72157622373540977/detail/"]here[/url] It'll probably never sound like a traditional acoustic upright but with a bit of experimentation on the EQ, can sound like an electrified AUB, if you get my drift. If I need a trad sound for recording, I just mic my AUB instead.

Yeah, sorry, it has gone quiet... tends to happen when I'm gigging. Look, I really don't care if you want to beat me up with technical stuff but I live in the real world and I have been there done that with clipping. The rattling sound I refer to is the sound of the windings catching inside the armature of the speaker. Two separate occasions, different rigs, into a JBL 12" (4x12) and a Volt 8" (2x8 midrange). I was only trying to pass on my experience to others but if you think I'm wrong, I can live with that. At the end of the day I will do what I do and protect my sound, which is very important to me.

[quote name='owen' post='627742' date='Oct 16 2009, 12:14 PM']If you join the Musicians Union they have free cover up to £2000.[/quote] ... and don't forget the with the MU you also get free public liability cover in case anyone sues you for damaging their hearing or dropping a bass cab on their foot

[quote name='alexclaber' post='626286' date='Oct 14 2009, 06:57 PM']Your sums aren't quite right, which means you're exaggerating the issue. You've also failed to take account the lowpass filtering caused by the voice coil inductance, which makes the problem less severe.[/quote] I did say it was a simplified example but regarding lowpass filtering, I would suggest that it would make it more severe when we are talking about the open A string of a bass guitar at 55Hz with severe clipping. As that is the fundamental frequency being reproduced, lowpass filtering won't have any attenuative effect on it. [quote name='alexclaber' post='626286' date='Oct 14 2009, 06:57 PM']Anyway, the fundamental issue is not one of whether the waveform is clipped or not, it's how much power is being continuously delivered to the voice coils. If you prefer to run dirtier and more compressed sounds then it makes sense to have more thermal power handling than if you like a clean uncompressed sound.[/quote] I didn't mention compression and as you know, compression provides a different audio function than clipping/distortion. You're absolutely right about it being a question of power delivery to the speakers, as I previously mentioned, and possibly the reason why most bass amp manuals tell you not to exceed input gain to the point of excessive clipping. [quote name='alexclaber' post='626286' date='Oct 14 2009, 06:57 PM']The main issue with any harsh fuzzy distortion, especially power amp clipping, is the increasing energy in the high frequencies. Woofers will filter this out but if you have tweeters they will get much more power and thus will be more likely to blow, hence the advice given on that site regarding amp:cab power ratios. Not so relevant with bass guitar cabs. Alex[/quote] Thanks, I'll disconnect the tweeters from my bass cabs immediately Ok, if you're still not convinced you could try a little experiment though I will add the disclaimer that if you follow these instructions, I take no responsibility for any damage whatsoever caused to your equipment or hearing.... try turning all your gain/EQ controls to max so you get a nice clipped sound... then whilst striking the open A string, gradually turn up your master volume control until you've reached full volume and see how far you get before your speakers/tweeters start rattling.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='626185' date='Oct 14 2009, 04:55 PM']Distortion pedals are exactly the same as an overdriven preamp, surely.[/quote] Yes, pretty much so. The problem comes when you turn the master volume up whilst feeding it with a bass guitar being clipped. Speakers have an RMS rating for wattage. This presumes a sinewave. Let's look at a simplified example: Amplifier with 50 volt dual rail DC supply (not uncommon) into 4 ohm speaker. With the amp at full power, a sine wave with a peak voltage of + or - 50 volts (100 volts peak to peak) is presented to the speaker coil but the useable voltage from this sine wave is calculated as RMS which is roughly 70% less than peak, or +-35 volts. (35 x 35) / 4 = 306.25 watts. A 300w RMS 4 ohm cab could handle that. The amp manufacturer probably sold this as a 300w amp. Now let's fully clip the signal and your peak voltage is still + or - 50 volts but because the signal is now square wave, the useable voltage is the same as the peak voltage. So thats (50 x 50) / 4 = 625 watts = melted voice coils in your 300w RMS cab. So you can see, as presented to the speakers, a clipped signal at half master vol would be similar to an unclipped signal at full master vol. Whilst the speakers could probably handle that as being within their tolerances, turning the master vol up from there and you are risking it. OK, the upshot here is that I'm only trying to save someone the expense of making the mistakes that I've made in the past. Hey, if you want to find out the hard way, go ahead.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='625708' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:05 AM']Unfortunately this is entirely incorrect. Sorry. Or should we all get rid of every overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedal we own that doesn't have a valve in it? Alex[/quote] OK, it was late and my brain wasn't fully in gear so my explanation was a little misleading. However, if you have a clipping preamp and high master vol levels (which I did mention but maybe should have emphasised), you will damage or kill your speakers... and that goes for a valve amp too (although that then opens a discussion on THD and odd or even harmonic distortion, output tranformer compression etc... let's not go there, it hurts my brain). At power levels close to the speaker design, there is an awful lot of heat generated in the voice coil and too much current at cone excursion will produce enough heat to melt the varnish on the coil or the coil wiring itself, and bass energy is the most disrespecting of amplification costs. Introducing clipping to the signal just makes things worse. Distortion pedals were made to get that overdriven sound at lower power levels, thereby saving ears and speakers. Anyway, [url="http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/power_rating_speakers.html"]read this[/url], it explains it much better than I did.

Never clip a solid state preamp... it won't hurt the amp, but apart from it sounding horrible it's likely to shorten speaker life if not instantly kill it. Instead of a nice clean sine wave from an unclipped source, what you get is akin to a square wave which at high levels of amplification provide enough "alternating" dc current to melt the windings of your speakers. BTDT and I won't do it again. On the other hand, clipping a valve is fine because you don't get a square wave type of clipping, the sine wave just goes sort of wobbly.... which is nice Incidentally, guitarists get away with it because their notes are higher frequencies, which means the duration of that dc current at the clipped peak of the wave is much shorter.

BTDT, mine came with a detached neck, the joint had just come adrift rather than being broken. Fixed by my local luthier for nothing in exchange for some of my computer skills. Still has battle scars but I like it like that.... patina I think they euphemistically call it If it's the standard education establishment instrument of the period, it's likely to be a Boosey and Hawkes Excelsior, Czech built I believe. Mine came without the sticker inside but matched it to a couple I've seen since which were identical.

Playing in big bands can be problematic when trying to fit lots of frequencies into a finite bandwidth. It's not always a good idea to ask the other members to change their parts to suit you... you're only a bass player after all Lots of things you can try... A: Try decoupling the cab from the stage floor... if it has castors that'll do the trick, if not, try a couple of beer crates or something. Don't place your cab too close to a wall to avoid the bass frequencies hugging the walls. B: If you have more than one pick-up on your bass, try using the bridge pup only and dialing in your sound with that. Otherwise try using both together a la Jazz bass stylee. C: Don't use too much bottom end on your eq... Gene Simmons once said that to cut through you need more mid... like a chainsaw E: Where's D gone? D: Oh there you were all the time. F: Wear ear plugs... Elacin ear plugs really make the bass easier to hear through the mix (meaning you can hear your sound much more clearly and cleanly without having to turn up) and save your ears from old age deafness. Only about £15 and wouldn't play without them now. Hope that helps.

Good topic Playing bass and singing together is more difficult than guitarists give credit for!! I reckon this is because the bass is a rhythmical and melodic instrument, as is a vocal line. In effect we are trying to play two melodic and rhythmic lines which compete across beats and notes. Oddly, I find it very easy to sing whilst strumming a guitar or drumming but have to really think about both parts when singing and... er... bassing. On the whole, having done it for a few years it's not too difficult for most of the time but there is usually at least one bit in every song which takes a bit of brain splitting. One technique I've found to be useful is when I find a tricky bit, to play the bass line and sing the vocal very slowly until I can work out how they go together, practice that section repeatedly slowly and then gradually speed up again till I can do it at normal speed. It's a similar method to learning that tricky bass lick until you've programmed your motive memory. Someone did tell me once that one way of training the brain is to play a bass line whilst reading aloud from a book or magazine and make the spoken words make sense.

A few years back I played synth on a tour but only on a few selected songs. I had a Roland something-or-other (D10 I think) MIDI'd up to a Behringer FCB1010 pedalboard so I could play the atmos parts or synth bass parts with my feet whilst playing bass and singing... talk about multitasking!! I only had one part where I could actually use my hands to play the keyboard. I ran it with my basses through a sub-mixer to the desk. There wasn't any touch sensitivity with the FCB1010, they are just on-off switches but they are a lot cheaper than proper midi bass pedals. I used it mainly for pads and some percussive effects as well as bass drones. It's certainly worth it, if you can use your feet while playing bass, and opens up a lot more possibilities.

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='562545' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:04 AM']How did he get the endpin out? Mine has just started to rattle a bit so could do with fixing it but can't get the bolldy thing out! Also someone off here was selling a black Stagg for £240 if you're interested? Pm me if so and i'll have a look through my pms Ta Steve[/quote] Remove the strings, unscrew the tailpiece which is secured by 4 long screws, then you will gain access to the screws which secure the endpin into the body. Removing these will allow you to withdraw the endpin assembly. It seems the hole that the endpin travels up isn't particularly wide. You may be able to drill a bigger hole up the body to allow more clearance for the flexing pin. This wasn't really an option for mine because the hole wasn't drilled square with the body so the pin is at a slight angle as it travels up. Hence the rather clever solution that John came up with.

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='562176' date='Aug 6 2009, 07:21 PM']Awesome. Are the Hipshots bass guitar tuners or are they "proper" DB tuners? Very cool none the less.[/quote] They're standard bass guitar tuners, Hipshot Ultralite HB6Y 1/2". [quote name='wotnwhy' post='562186' date='Aug 6 2009, 07:41 PM']fantastic. some sound clips of it would be super fun swell :brow:[/quote] I'll get around to it very soon.

Ok, parts were: Original cost of new Stagg £285 Hipshot HB6Y 1/2" tuners, set of 5, for £85 incl. VAT and shipping. Spirocore Low B £46 The luthier was John LeVoi, he's a friend and so I am in the extremely fortunate position of acquiring his services in return for looking after his computers. The work he did was to remove the old tuners, plug the holes and glue mahogany sides to the headstock to increase the thickness to accept the Hipshot tuners, drilled for five tuners, sanded and sprayed with matt black paint to match the original finish. New nut fitted. He actually did more to the bridge than was required to make it look like it was meant to be a 5 string (filling the old string grooves), but basically the old bridge is just re-grooved for 5 strings. The tailpiece had the two middle string holes plugged and re-drilled for three between the existing outer two. As it is only a lump of wood, a new tailpiece could easily be made, but mine retains the original. The bulk of the work is at the headstock end. It's a little tight for room to fit three tuners on one side, but they fit without any problem. I chose the Hipshots because they had a small footprint and a 1/2" string post so pretty close to the original post size. They were also reversible which was important because I didn't know beforehand which side would be best for three tuners. If anyone else attempts this in the same tuner configuration, because of the orientation of the tuners you'll need to order a set of 5 for a 3-bass side and 2-treble side layout... or just buy Hipshots so you can make your mind up later. The Spirocore string was bought in advance and is a 3/4 size so I'm not sure why the silk winding is sat on the nut but as the string stretches it's moving further north. It doesn't cause any problems even as it is, the string has a lovely sustain. One bonus I wasn't expecting is that it's still bowable. As I'm a complete novice at bowing and haven't any need to bow, it wasn't a priority for it to be bowable. However, having tried it, there is no problem bowing, even I can do it without catching adjacent strings so the radius seems fine. Sounds good too John had the bass for two weeks, but he was only working on it while the glue dried on his new builds. I gather it took him about a day all told, but he also spent time replacing the OEM jack-socket which didn't always make proper contact with the jack-plug, and curing the rattling endpin too, with a tent-pole spring! He said the conversion could be done by anyone competent in woodworking skills and wouldn't necessarily require a luthier. I'm as chuffed as a very chuffed thing and can't wait to gig it. I'm going to keep a look out for a used Stagg and have it converted to high-C too

Finally got my Stagg 3/4EDB back from my friendly luthier, sporting its fancy new low B string addition Excuse the workshop dust

It's only a problem if you haven't confidence in your relationship or value within the band. I dep quite a lot and though it's hard work to learn a completely new set for maybe one gig, I take the opportunity as a chance to network with new musicians. I never see it as an opportunity to join a new band. If my own band takes a gig that I can't do, I will generally try to find a dep for them myself from a small pool of bass players that I know and can rely on to do the job well. I feel it's more important to ensure that my band doesn't lose any hard-earned reputation from having a bad dep and a bad gig. Depping is part of the business and deps don't want a rep for trying to muscle in or they tend not to get asked again.

[quote name='Voodoosnake' post='533074' date='Jul 5 2009, 03:14 PM']Hi folks, Looking for some guidance again... Ive got the SWB and really getting into it but she will not be my full time bass as my gig requires electic bass also. Im thinking of a tripod stand which will allow me to walk away from the bass without the palava of unplugging and finding a set down place. Do any of you have ideas as to what tripods to use? NS make one for their WAV bass but Aria it seems do not. Any help would be great. Cheers Col[/quote] I had this problem too. I can only relate what I do with my Stagg EUB (which has an awful lot in common with your bass). I asked a few drummers if they had any old snare drum stands which were no longer useable. What I ended up with was a snare tripod stand lower section (legs and lower tube section). The tube has a sealed bottom so I just stand the bass on its endpin inside the tube. When I want to play the bass, I just lift it out the tube and play as normal. Secure, simple, small and effective... and completely free

[quote name='kembo_dee' post='458844' date='Apr 9 2009, 09:34 PM']Hello, I was just wondering about changing the bridge to something more like a real wooden bridgeso it would be easier to bow.[/quote] The Stagg bridge is a wooden bridge already but I assume you mean to change it to something like a traditional double bass bridge. I'm not sure what you would gain here since the bridge profile is essentially determined by the neck profile so you'd still have the same bowing angle at the strings. That aside, I'd imagine it would be difficult to find a traditional bridge short enough to fit. [quote name='kembo_dee' post='458844' date='Apr 9 2009, 09:34 PM']Another question because the Stagg sound is Piezo based rather than a vibrating wooden body would changing the strings make any difference when playing Pizz. or not. I mean when you see reviews for strings that say "Gut sound without the Gut price!", Can you get that thud, thud old bass sound on a EUB with new strings. i.e Innovation Ultra Blacks [url="http://tinyurl.com/dk3wvm"]Gollihur Ultra Black Strings[/url] Thanks Kembo[/quote] I'm not in a position to help you here since I don't have enough disposable income to try different strings to acheive this. I do have some old thuddy strings from my double bass which I might try just to see what the results are. The easiest option to obtain a thud sound might be to try a string mute to cut down the sustain of the string, at least you'd have the option of going back to long sustain quickly. I don't regard myself as an expert though, so I hope someone with more experience of upright bass than me might come along soon to help. Ian

[quote name='kembo_dee' post='457596' date='Apr 8 2009, 04:53 PM']Hello, Has anyone found a different bridge for the Stagg EUB? cheers Kembo[/quote] Do you have a specific problem with the stock bridge? The Stagg bridge is perfectly modifiable as it's made of wood so it's not outside the possibility of having a luthier or even a friendly carpenter make a new one for you if you wanted one. It comes in two parts, the lower part sits into two circular sockets in the body with what looks like Belcat Omega-II cable piezos in the bottom of each socket. The upper part sits on the height adjustment bolts which are also removable. The first job I had done when I bought my Stagg was to have a luthier shave a bit off the base of the top section (that's how I found out all this info) so there was more height adjustment and also recut the nut so the strings lay closer to the fretboard. I now have a low enough action to play quickly and easily. HTH Ian

[quote name='slobluesine' post='411169' date='Feb 16 2009, 02:59 PM']anyone managed to stop the hum/buzz on their Stagg? mine seems to be getting worse [/quote] I recently came across a Stagg with the hum problems, on closer inspection with a multi-meter, I discovered that the metal plate the electronics are fastened to has no connection with the earth-side of the signal. Coupled with the lack of screening in the cavity beneath the control plate means the electronics are not screened at all. Fortunately, it's a very easy fix, only requiring some self-adhesive aluminium foil which can be bought on a roll like gaffa tape from a hardware store, a cross-head screwdriver, a scraping implement, pencil and a 10mm spanner. It took me about 20 mins to fix the hum problem. The self-adhesive backing of the foil tape I used seems to be conductive so taping foil on top of other foil doesn't seem to be a problem. [b]Disclaimer: the following instructions will no doubt invalidate your warranty, if in any doubt of your own competence, seek professional help.[/b] First, remove the battery to prevent the electrics from letting the smoke out. Remove the electronics control plate and the long plastic back cover from the rear of the instrument. You will probably find a feable factory attempt at foil sheilding inside the cavity underneath the long cover. I removed it all to do the job properly. There are two channels in the cavity for the wires to run down. Clear the wires away from the cavity the best you can to gain access to the channels. The two peizo leads can be unplugged (they are terminated in mini jack plugs) from the control plate to make this easier, just remember which way round they go back. Take the foil tape and line the whole cavity to include the rebate where the plastic and electronic plates sit. Ensure you follow the profile of the wire channels to make sure the wires will be recessed enough to clear the end pin when retracted into the body. If you don't want to leave anything to chance, line the cavity underneath the jack plate, being careful to allow clearance for the jack socket terminals. Now that the cavity is fully foiled, lay the peizo wires and the grey signal wire leading to the jack socket into the channels and tape them down with foil tape. The battery wire (red-black lead) can then be taped down afterwards. I did it like this so the audio wires were fully sheilded from the battery wire. Check that the wires are clear from snagging on the endpin by sliding it in and out a few times. It might be an idea to rotate the endpin whilst doing so as mine is ever so slightly bent. Once you have the whole of the caviity foiled you can then proceed to the electronics plate itself. This is covered by the same black plastic coating that everything else seems to be but unfortunately, it also insulates the electronics earth-side from the metal plate. Carefully pull off the sub-bass control knob from the control shaft to expose the nut and washer holding it in place. Take the pencil and draw a line around the washer. With a 10mm spanner, remove the nut and washer. You should be able to see the circular pencil line. With an implement to scrape away the plastic coating, scrape inside the circle till you get back to bare metal. When satisfied that you have removed enough of the black plastic coating, replace the washer and tighten the nut. Don't over tighten or you might strip the threads. On the underside of the metal plate, there are three screw holes along one edge for fastening this plate to the body. The middle screw hole is the one I used for the next step. With the scraping implement, remove the black plastic covering around this hole on the underside (inside surface) to expose the bare metal and extend for about a centimetre or half inch either side of it. The idea here is that when you mount the plate on your body again, the bare metal will make contact with the foil you stuck onto the plate recess. You should now have a bond between the earth of the electronics and the metal plate. This can be checked with a multimeter set as a continuity checker or on the lowest ohm range. Check for continuity or zero ohms between one of the minijack socket securing nuts and the bare metal near the screw hole you just made. If it checks ok, plug the peizos back in, refasten the control plate and the plastic cavity covers and refit the battery. Incidentally, the black plastic cavity cover should already have a foil backing on the underside. If it doesn't, foil the underside yourself. Now plug your noiseless Stagg into an amp and enjoy. Oh BTW, there is a level trim control for each peizo on the electronics, if you lack level on your G-string side (I did), turn the pot nearest the corresponding peizo plug on the board to balance it up. Hope some of this is useful to other Stagg players.

[quote name='slobluesine' post='417514' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:23 PM']contact details of the Luthier if you dont mind? how much did he charge? whereabouts is he?[/quote] He's John Le Voi in Lincolnshire. He hasn't done mine yet so wait till it's done and I expect he'll be able to quote once he knows what's involved. He's a mate of mine so for me it'll actually be a lot less than £500. To date the conversion costs are £47 for a low B spirocore, £65 for a set of 5 Hipshot HB6Y 1/2" in black... er... and the bass itself which I got in a sale from iMusician for £284 all in. That's all I need so it's down to John when the machine heads arrive.