Linus27

2 hours ago, Doctor J said:

I knew a classical flautist, years ago, who couldn't get their head around the idea of composing their own music and, in particular, improvisation. She was quite excellent at her instrument whereas, in the band I was in at the time, writing our own stuff and improvising were completely natural to us, it seemed like the kind of thing every musician would just instinctively know and do, but not so.

 

When I'm writing music, I usually hear everything, all the instruments and melodies. The process of making a real song out of it frequently becomes a tedious chore, as taking it out of my head and into the real world often involves lots of compromise because my ability to play the required instrumentation and manipulate my voice, in particular, frequently doesn't match what I think the music requires. I have to work hard to get rid of the pre-conceived idea and work at something I can actually do and record in real life.

 

 

I played with a few classically trained musicians in the past and they were exactly the same. Everything for them was in a box so improvisation or writing something unusual just caused absolute meltdown. What made it even more frustrating is whatever they were taught is the right way and there was an inability to compromise or even accept there are other ways, for example saying One-E-And, 2-E-And, Three-E-And etc. which I'd been taught and seen others musicians taught when reading music was absolute jibberish to one classically trained musician and their way was the only right way to count notes. 

15 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

if you search 50g vs 50g+ there's a series of YouTube videos where someone in Japan (I guess) has compared the sounds on each... 
He ended up selling the 50g+ and keeping the 50g! 

Mmmm, that's interesting. Does go into much details why, does he compare like for like and there's a noticeable difference?

I have a MS-60B which I love but I only use it for reverb. I'll be going for the MS-70CDR+ when it comes out as reverb, chorus, flanger etc. are my main effects for fretless along with my Boss OC5.  I use a Sansamp as well which us ace so no need for the cab sim stuff either.

My rig from last night. 

MarkBass Little Mark IV

Barefaced Two10

Fender Japan 62 RI Fretless Jazz

Fender Japan 62 RI Fretless Precision

Ibanez UB804 EUB

@Webby308 Hello from another Camberley resident here 🙂

As already said, Julian is very good and he's done all my basses in the past. If ever London way then The Gallery is also very good.

I've also just read this on Facebook and was super shocked as I knew Nick had a battle was cancer some time ago but thought he was in the all clear these days.

I met Nick through Basschat and we did meet up a good many times at his house in Woking and he also came to mine as we were both local. I even helped him write his CV for when he was applying for jobs and moving away. I can't remember which one but I did buy a bass and some other odds and sods from Nick and not only did we chat basses and music but also cars and rugby. This has knocked me for six for sure and I am so super sad. I remember once when he came to my house and I was playing his fretless Tony Franklin Precision and he was playing my fretless Warwick Streamer. We started to swap amps and cabs and at one point everything stopped working. I'd only gone and plugged both end of the speakon cable into the cab which made me look a complete idiot but we both found very funny.

Nick was an absolutely lovely guy, so friendly and will be so sadly missed. R.I.P buddy, will be thinking about you a lot.

39 minutes ago, tinyd said:

On double bass you usually measure string height at the end of the fingerboard so I'd guess it's the same here. For comparison, on DB "typical" string heights are around 5mm for the G up to 8 or 10 on the E, but these are hugely variable between players.

Amazing thank you. I had to raise the height of my G string as it was buzzing a little and sounding too much like a fretless. When I raised it a little it sounded so much better but as the string sustained, it then vibrated into an annoying buzz. So I raised it some more and the buzz went and its now sounding good. However the D started to do the same so I just raised that a little and its ok again. Now I have the measurements and know where to measure from, I can check what the actual heights are. 

17 hours ago, tinyd said:

Not sure if this has been shared before but his results sound pretty good at the end:
 

 

Thank you for sharing. Super interesting. When he talks about the height of the strings, where is he actually measuring from?

10 hours ago, JimmyN2 said:

Hi Linus 

Had our weekly rehearsal this morning and all the band members,  and in particular the keys player, agreed with my comment above.  In fact he said the fuller, more rounded and ‘big’ sound made it sound even more like a DB. Incidentally I didn’t alter the controls on the MarkBass amp.  
cheers

Jim

That sounds really promising, thank you for the update and letting me know.

24 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

It's also worth considering a reverb pedal to try and mimic the acoustic resonance of a DB. It's not foolproof, but used judiciously can add some lovely character to an EUB.

I will try that. I love reverb and use it a lot on my fretless to great effect. I did try it quickly on the EUB and it got a bit mushy so I think it needs to be subtle so I'll give that a go tonight.

1 hour ago, jrixn1 said:

Thanks for the additional info - makes sense.  To add to the suggestions, the MXR M81 is a small, well-built, transparent preamp pedal with DI.

You are welcome and hope it makes sense. Interesting that you suggest the MXR M81 as it has crossed my mind as well. I bought one of them in the past and I was really disappointed in it as I found it super subtle, very clean and didn't really add anything to my fretless tone so I returned it. I was thinking over the weekend how it would work with the EUB what with it being very clean and uncoloured. They are quite expensive for what they are though but it could be a good option.

19 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

Just going back to the original post - what's the reason for not wanting to use your amp's DI?

I have a MarkBass LM IV and a Warwick Gnome and I play fretless. Recently I have found that my MB DI has caused some buzzing. By pure chance I'd just bought a Sansamp to use on my pedalboard in case one day, my amp goes down. A few gigs back I was playing an amazing venue but in soundcheck, I was getting some buzzing which I'd had before at other venues so the soundman saw I had a Sansamp and said lets run the DI from that, we should get a beautiful clear sound as they are amazing pedals. So we did and the buzzing went and I had an amazing sound. I then did about 3 more gig running the DI from the Sansamp and again, the best sound I have ever had and so this is what I now do, DI to the desk from the Sansamp for my fretless gigs.

So I want to build a very small pedalboard for my EUB of basically a DI, Preamp and Octave pedal. I don't want to keep taking the Sansamp on and off my fretless pedalboard and to be fair, when I have tried my Sansamp with the EUB, its not really complimented it and thus my request for a fairly uncoloured preamp. My Warwick Gnome is the head I use for my EUB but I'm keen to follow suit with my fretless pedalboard and run a DI to the desk from a preamp or DI rather than rely on my Warwick Gnome DI.

On 11/03/2024 at 12:14, JPJ said:

I’m using the EBS Stanley Clarke pre as I double between NS EUB and fretless bass but it’s probably a bit overkill for what you want. Failing this, keep an eye out for a Radial Tone Bone. They come up on here quite regularly and are an excellent preamp with DI for EUB. 

Thanks JPJ, I'd also read that the Radial Tonebone is another good product.

29 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Why not just use your existing MS-60B, and then only change if after a number of gigs it transpires you are not happy with it.  I used a MS-60B with a Behringer DI400P DI box for ages.  In the end I was pulled to EBS preamps for their feature set (as I am doubling nearly all the time), but I was never unhappy with the way the Zoom sounded.

This is my other option, to use the MS-60B but it has no DI out which is something I would like so I can run direct to the desk. So I'm happy to do this and I know the MS-60B is great so it would be recommendations on a good DI if I went this route. I'll into the Behringer DI400P DI box if you think its a good option. It might be a good short term option until I can afford a Fishman Platinum Pro or EBS Preamp which I've heard is excellent.

I've just bought an Ibanez UB804 Upswing EUB which I absolutely love. I'd like to get a fairly uncoloured preamp with DI that I can then run straight to the desk rather than going through the DI in my amp. I don't really want to spend a huge amount but I do want to get something that's going to be half decent with a little bit of tone shaping. I was looking at the Fishman Platinum Pro which has great reviews but is a little pricey for my budget. They do also have the Platinum Stage which also looks good but no idea if it is any good. I could go super cheap and get the Behringer DBI21 but not sure if this would be suitable for a EUB. The other option is use my Zoom MS-60B for tone shaping and buy a decent DI to run to the desk.

Anyone got any recommendations for a half decent preamp with DI that's good with a EUB or even a half decent DI if I use my MS-60B. Open to other suggestions or recommendations

I was asked to appear in a charity video for ELO in the late 80's miming bass. Went to a studio and just played along to the track whilst we were all being filmed. I can't remember much about it and only being 18, I didn't really know much about ELO but they were all very nice.

Recorded an album at Paul Weller's studio in Ripley which Paul played on a few track. I had to teach him a few of the piano parts and at the end of the week we all went for a curry in Ripley. We then supported him on his Sonic Kicks tour.

Recorded an album with Mark Wallis who produced the It Bites album, Travis albums, engineered on U2's Joshua Tree to name a few. The studio was owned by Geoff Downs of Buggles fame and John Payne from Asia. Geoff played Hammond on a few tracks and John sung backing on a few tracks. They were both super nice people.

Hung out backstage with Cactus World News and Deacon Blue at a festival we were all playing at in the 90's.

A few mates of mine went to see Mike Peter's play in Bath Moles. Mike asked if anyone could play guitar and my guitarist friend stepped forward and was his roadie for the night. Got to hang out and chat music with him and talk about our band with him. A few months later, I interviewed Derek Forbes and then saw him when he was playing in Portsmouth. Mike Peter's was also singing in the band and he remembered us and we ended up having a good chat again about music.

I played bass with a band for a few months as a dep that had Jodie Hawkes (Chesney's brother) on drums and a few other siblings of famous musicians.

Supported 80's pop band Breathe at Guildford Civic Hall (G Live) in the 90's.

One of our roadies, Patch, was the drummer in The Audience with Sophie Ellis-Bexter and The Sunday's. After a tour in London, we headed back to his studio for a party which happened to be some old mill and he played us the early demo's of track's from Natalie Imbruglia's first album and Robbie Williams - Millennium which started out as a reggae track. Paul Nicholls who was in Eastenders was there as well as other people who I can't remember.

To now go full circle, I recorded an EP in a studio in Soho in the late 80's. There was a guy working there who was super kind and let me use his amazing Vintage Fender basses. It turns out to be our very own @Steve Browning 😁

I can definitely see me getting one of these but I'll probably settle for the MS-70CDR+.

1 hour ago, JimmyN2 said:

Took delivery of a MarkBass New York 121 yesterday to add to my CMD121. Quick delivery and good price from Bass Direct.  Anyway the difference in sound without changing any settings is quite surprising.  Let’s see what the other band members make of it on Tuesday.  I won’t bother at church as I put a mic in front of the cmd121. 

When you say different, in what way? 

4 minutes ago, JimmyN2 said:

That’s really good Linus, so glad it worked for you and you had fun, excellent!  
 
Trying everything out is the only way.  
 

But if you really want to sound like a DB then the Ray Brown method is your best route.  Plucking at 90o will never sound like a DB.

 

Really pleased for you. 
 

Cheers,

 

Jim

Thanks Jim, really appreciate your help and kind words. It's only been 2 weeks so very very early day and certainly a long but fun road ahead.

Thanks @JimmyN2 and @JPJ, your help is really appreciated and invaluable, thank you. So last night I did my first gig after only getting the UB804 2 weeks ago and it was a huge success. I've been putting in hours of practice each night to try and get comfortable, work on my technique and to tweak my bass lines as I'm normally a melodic fretless player. I needed to simplify them and play some parts in a lower octave. I knew the sound guy already and he's very good and knew exactly what I usually sound like with my fretless and what sort of sound I was after with the double bass and he got it absolutely spot on. I even got compliments afterwards and despite this being our first unplugged setup and mine with the double bass, we even got a standing ovation at the end so I'll take that as a hit 😁

As for compressor, for fretless, its vital for my sound but for the double bass I also found this had more of a negative effect than doing good so I kept this off. Reverb also is an essential part of my fretless tone but I found for the double bass, things got a bit mushy so I kept this off. I run it through my Warwick Gnome and TC Electronic BC208 and the settings were bass dialled back a little to 11 o clock, mids dialled back to 9 o clock and treble left at 12 o clock. The UB804 had the tone rolled all the way back and I got a nice warm rounded thumpy tone. Not necessarily pure double bass but nothing like a fretless bass. I did still run through my Sansamp but just as a DI rather than any tone shaping but I did dial all the blend off which helped.

As for how I play, one thing I learnt very quickly is a softer touch really really helps and the softer I played, the fuller the notes swelled but also stayed cleaner. I was finding some of the lower octave notes like F and G on the E string could get a bit mushy and boomy but with a lighter plucking hand, the notes would sing more and this seemed consistent across all the notes. I've also been trying plucking 90 degrees to the string and also side on like Ray Brown. The latter is much harder but something I'm going to keep working on for sure. 

As for something to use instead of the Sansamp, I'd read the Fishman Platinum Pro had great reviews. I will of course look into the Artec Parametric EQ but I have also managed to get a great tone from just going direct into my amp so it's more the DI option that's important to me.

I've got 4 basses and an electric upright bass and I wouldn't mind a couple of other basses to add to the collection.

Fender Japan 61 Reissue Fretless Jazz: This is the best bass I have owned. I bought it new around 87 and its seen thousands of gigs. Its fretless with an ebony board, Bartolini pickups, incredibly beaten up and sounds amazing. Strung with Rotosound 66 Swing Nickel rounds and really sings.

Fender Japan 62 Fretless Precision: When I don't play the Jazz then I play this bass as its lovely and is a nice player when I fancy something different. It has a rosewood fretless neck, 62 vintage pickups, is strung with Rotosound 66 Swing Nickel rounds and has a really nice expressive, punchy tone.

Fender Mexico FSR 70's Reissue Fretless Precision: It has a maple fretless neck, is natural with an Ash body, 62 Vintage pickups and sounds fab. Strung with flats and is brilliant for recording and is different to the other Precision and Jazz basses.

Music Man Fretless Stingray SR4: It has a Pau Ferro fretless neck which is lovely but very different sounding to the three other basses I own. I'm still experimenting with strings and would like to try and use some Nickel strings on it at some point. I do occasionally gig with it as well but nothing really beats the tone from my Jazz bass.

Ibanez UB804 Upswing EUB: Very different to anything I own but a wonderful fun instrument.

After that, then I am always on the look out for interesting fretless basses so who knows what might pop up in the future.

Just out of interest, does anyone use a Sansamp pedal or similar with the Ibanez Upswing? If so, any recommendations on settings that you use. I'm trying to get as close to a nice organic, thumpy double bass tone as possible.

We played to a mildly iffy crowd last night. No trouble as such but a very odd crowd who all seemed to know each other from all ages with guys strutting  around like peacocks and girls, done up to the nine's with tits hanging out, swearing their heads off. Pissed as anything treading on cables, standing right in front of us with their backs to us and showing no respect to anyone. Just a very odd crowd.

Some of my favourite Jazz numbers.

Miles Davis - On Green Dolphin Street

Bill Evan's - Minority

Soil and Pimp Sessions - Summer Goddess 

19 hours ago, JimmyN2 said:

Hi Linus

I’ve been playing on of these beauties since 2020 and I can’t recommend it highly enough, and very easy to play for an ex Fender player.  The strings from new are Daddario ECB81 and I wouldn’t use anything else. I play a lot and have replaced them once. 
At jazz gigs people often come and tell me how like a double bass it sounds. 
 

Jim

Thanks Jim, that's really good to know. I think mine came fitted with Rotosound rounds which really were doing the bass no favours. I had a set of Rotosound Flats spare which are strings I'm very fond of anyway, so I fitted them and they've transformed it. I'm still going to try a set of the D'addario ECB81's as I've read others have rated them as well. Thank you for your help.