51m0n
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Posts posted by 51m0n
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17 hours ago, Al Krow said:
Si - not sure how effective this is as a dual band comp in terms of targeting just the lows and the highs? Seems to me that the X-over delineates where the two comps kick in, but you can't centre the comps at particular frequencies?
I guess if you are mildly boosting the bass, cutting the mids and dialling up the treble for a "typical" slap EQ, then you'd be going for a mild compression for bass / mids and more of a limiter approach with the treble to even out the 'pops' and looking to set the X-over at the top end of the mid range around (say) 1.5 kHz.
Not so, the crossover ranges from 70Hz to 1KHz with noon being at 150Hz on the dial marked X-over. That's the big dial offset to the left in the middle of the pedal
Seriously that's all you need for dual compression...For slap I would probably look to set up the low end compressor to be a middling attack, about 4:1 ratio getting a consistent 5dB of gain reduction. As long a release as I can get whilst allowing the compressor to reset between notes. Trying to just get some solid leveling and punch.
The top end is the 'character' though so you can go a lot of ways with this, for very obvious compression then (knowing the Becos comps) I'd go for a soft knee, very very fast attack (just not distorting), ratio of 8:1, bring the threshold down until I can really hear it grab the note hard. I'd probably have the X-over set to around 500Hz, but maybe higher.
If I didnt want to 'intrude' on dynamics feel I'd back this right off though and use technique to keep the pops even
Remember you can eq after or before a compressor for different objectives, but the amp eq will be fine, if you want to remove some mids going into the compressor and have a two pick up bass, just select both pickups equally, that will lower the mids on its own...
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16 hours ago, acidbass said:
Does something like this exist? I have always wanted a visual meter to read my bass' output, it would help massively when trying to standardise my pickup height and consistent string output across the board. I know mixing desks have this feature a lot of the time but something like this in pedal format would be cool.
Errrm, yeah, built in to all the compressors that I would call full featured is a decent meter, you cant do compression 'properly' without it IMO.
So, the full Becos range, Empress, Cali76 even the MXR IIRC. The bigger the meter (ie the more LEDs) the better...
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On 17/02/2020 at 09:47, BassBunny said:
The fan is slightly noisy, but fine in a gig situation. I always use a Tascam and headphones at home, so it doesn't bother me. The output level is interesting. When I first got it I was disappointed and compared to the MarkBass SA450 it was replacing, it seemed very under powered. I spoke to Dave Green at Ashdown, (who designed the amp), and he pointed out that the amp's output stage is different to most amps on the market. It has a linear volume control, so to get maximum output, you turn it to max. Most amps, MarkBass included, have their maximum volume at 12 O'Clock and then have a limiter to prevent it going further.
His advice was set the Volume to maximum and control it with the input. That made an enormous difference. I found the same issue with an EA iAmp that has the same kind of design.
I went from an sa450 to an EA iAmp Classic, 1200w monster, and completely agree! Very odd having to dime the volume at gigs, but it's very strong down low, so it can be very easy to dismiss it as not loud enough, it is but I've had to really work on finding the best eq settings to get it to work right within the context of my band. It's a killer amp though...
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Why the Becos dual comp in particular?
One of my favourite bands with monstrous slapination is The Infectious Grooves. Trujillo used two compressors in the studio, one for highs, one for lows.
This is the only dual band compressor I've ever heard of with decent metering on both channels.
I reviewed Al's single channel Becos a while back, it's absolutely superb.
This is like that on steroids for slap. The absolute dogs bollox...
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Stop mucking about, this is the one mate:-
https://becosfx.com/product/compiq-twain-dual-band-stacked-pro-compressor-for-bass-and-guitar/
🤩
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12 hours ago, Al Krow said:
I see you've succumbed to the fatal outcome that is prevalent amongst those who start threads - it's a surprisingly expensive pastime and should come with a health warning from the mods!
Funny though your Becos now looks wonderfully simple compared to the Stella and shouldn't take you till the end of the week to master.
And when you've had a few stellas, you'll no doubt be "doing a Simon" and getting one of these knob fiddler's paradise:
Which dammit, I've just noticed has got Lo Cut and Hi Cut - if those are essentially a 'free' built in HPF and LPF thrown in and they're half decent..
It won't fit on my board at the moment 😭
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58 minutes ago, krispn said:
Still keen to know who the “many folk typically would have a comp at the start... limiter at the end” are you were talking about?
The reasoning is as follows:-
Compression at the start of the fx chain is likely to mean that all fx that follow will get a steadier signal, especially good for tracking fx like synths and octavers. Less obviously useful for overdrives and distortions (can depend because a compressor is a transient shaper).
The limiter at the end is basically there to stop peaks from certain fx damaging speakers/pa. In normal use nothing should be causing the limiter to start limiting, but a heavy filter sweep or whacked out synth or octaver patch is going to be protected against.
I know @pantherairsoft used to use a pretty mad board for his EDM stuff and I think he told me he was investigating this approach at a bassbash years ago.I wouldn't exactly call this a common approach for less ambitious setups though.
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1 hour ago, Al Krow said:
Cheers gents.
@51m0n so would you regard the Keeley Bassist as being a true limiter and not a compressor?
PS if a point is worth making, it's probably worth repeating 😁
From the Keeley page:-
With feed forward compressors that use this type of true-RMS detector you use a single time constant parameterSo we have no idea how long that detector is averaging over. In short I cant answer you with a simple yes/no,but its using a chip closely related to the on in the Becos. Probably not a 'true' limiter circuit then.
Can you set it up to behave like a limiter with a slower attack time though, well no, you dont have an attack control so not at all. -
Even the fastest attack setting on a compressor circuit is not truly a limiter.
Likewise a slow attack setting on a limiter does not behave quite like a compressor.
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Nah its more simple than all of that really.
The circuits must be different to truly be a limiter vs a compressor.
Its all about how the device measures the input level. A compressor will average the input level over a (sometimes very) short time so an RMS over a few milliseconds (although longer in some circuits ie opto just because it takes time to light up the element).
So if your compressor measures level as an average of the level over the last n milliseconds it can never truly limit the front edge of a transient, because that is not the point in time when the average level over time has actually changed to exceed your threshold.
A true limiter circuit is designed to measure level in a far more instantaneous way, obviously there is always some delay but an 1176 can have attack times in micro seconds only because it is measuring the input level super quickly. An La2a cant possibly be as fast, but then it isnt a limiter at all.
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Nah its more simple than all of that really.
The circuits must be different to truly be a limiter vs a compressor.
Its all about how the device measures the input level. A compressor will average the input level over a (sometimes very) short time so an RMS over a few milliseconds (although longer in some circuits ie opto just because it takes time to light up the element).
So if your compressor measures level as an average of the level over the last n milliseconds it can never truly limit the front edge of a transient, because that is not the point in time when the average level over time has actually changed to exceed your threshold.
A true limiter circuit is designed to measure level in a far more instantaneous way, obviously there is always some delay but an 1176 can have attack times in micro seconds only because it is measuring the input level super quickly. An La2a cant possibly be as fast, but then it isnt a limiter at all.
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Yeah, but a comp even set really fast isn't a true limiter.
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On 15/02/2020 at 19:05, Jonse said:
That many knobs makes me nervous.
Ooh matron!
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I would always advocate many stages of compression each doing less than you can notice for specific areas of the entire envelope of a sound.
Especially a complex sound (mixed types of envelope).
Super especially if you want the end result to be ultra transparent....
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It might take a couple of minutes fiddling to figure it out yes 🤪🤩
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Oh my!
https://becosfx.com/product/compiq-twain-dual-band-stacked-pro-compressor-for-bass-and-guitar/
That is just, awesome!!
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No reason not to try it.
In mixes/masters I find many layers of gentler compression on channels/groups or in parallel often produces the desired effect a lot better (ie with less unwanted artifacts) than one crashingly heavy dollop of compression in one go...-
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Unless you are willing to pay big bucks just don't bother, use a vst.
Seriously, never heard a tube pre that does noticeable 'magicks' that wasn't eye-wateringly expensive.
Tubetech pres are frickin awesome
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25 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:
According to the pedia of Wiki there's a style of compression known as 'motown style'.
Yep it's a form of filtered parallel compression that acts as a kind of exciter, used almost exclusively on vocals IIRC. Dead easy to do in a DAW.
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Anyone interested in the compression used in Motown recordings check out this link, especially the box about the kit in snakepit
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/four-tops-reach-out-ill-be-there-classic-tracks
A whole lot of compression as a result of a tube console, tape and even available mics...
Also the di that Jameson used, was a tube di...
They also said used Fairchild compressors for mastering.
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Jameson's bass tone definitely included being pushed hard to tape for saturation and tape compression....
And then there's the mastering compression after that....
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5 hours ago, Dood said:
and then you get a company whose compressor controls work in the opposite direction "to that of modern compressors". A certain, well known studio classic!
You know what they say, "Less is more"
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1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:
My compressor keeps it simple... too simple?
Not so much too simple as just obfuscated.
What does sustain do?
Is it a function of the threshold?
Is it instead an input level (very similar to a threshold but subtly different).
Or is it a function of the ratio?
Or is it somewhere in between, all clever and stuff? In which case, how does that work exactly?
And who decided on the release time/curve?
I find these kind of compressors very frustrating! At least Joe Meek compressors have a ratio and a threshold, albeit named wrong, so they then need a manual that tells you what they are actually doing by using the normal name for it (slope == ration) - FFS!
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On 09/01/2020 at 07:27, Cuzzie said:
how are the drummers snare/toms etc tuned and how do they play -Oh man I've dedicated so much time to getting really good at tuning drums, especially for recording. I can tune a kit from scratch in about 15 minutes with new heads top and bottom now, and it will sound absolutely massive.
There's an old adage, stinky poo in stinky poo out, which is more true for drum sounds than anything else!
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Best compressor for slap (I know......)
in Effects
Posted
A slapped/popped bass note has a huge amount of info above 300Hz, most bass rigs output more harmonic content rather than the fundamental frequency of the note played. Certainly on the lowest 5 frets of the B, E and A string.
The entire point of the dual compression is to control the 'meat' of the signal with the low compression separately from the info in the transient spikes and harmonic content. The top end can be set for a faster attack to catch the transient if desired, without stomping on the low end.