51m0n

I picked mine up for £150 on the bay, so they can be bought for sensible money!

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='451287' date='Apr 1 2009, 11:04 AM']You'll be hard pushed to beat the multicomp without spending twice the money. I always likes the Focusrite compounder. They are quite expensive new compared to the EBS - but I have just looked at some on ebay that are at a comparable price to the multicomp. (the BIN one looks good)

Works great in a live situation - and a great all round compressor for in the studio, even vocals. It's particularly good on bass drums also.[/quote]

+1 (check my sig) its the canine undercarriage on bass

Whilst its true that harmonically funk is pretty simple, a lot of funk feel is damned hard to master.

Even Sex Machine, which is not that tough of a riff, is really taxing on people coming from a rock/punk/blues or even jazz rhythmic background. Bootsy laid down some of the all time ultimate funk grooves with JB, and a lot of them use very natural sounding, but really hard to nail 16th note syncopation, and the real trick is he often played lines that syncopate off different 16th notes each beat in the bar.

TOP is devastatingly hard in comparison, just because its so fast. Sure you maybe can play the line, but if you dont play it as solid as Rocco and grooving as hard then you have a way to go, and very few people can really do it (I know I seriously struggle when I start tying to play things like On The Serious Side - it sounds simple but its a killer).

The notes used are almost irrelevant, you only need the root an octave, a fifth (maybe) and some mutes to be funky as hell. Notes don't make funk, groove does.

I'd say listen to Craig Charles' Funk show every week, record it and cop you 5 favourite grooves off the program each week. One a day through the week. You'll be naturally funky in no time!

Missed it

Oh plop - forgot you where getting these in this weekend!

Totally snowed all weekend it turns out, so I couldnt have brought the berg around for a comparison after all...

...next time then!

But it IS playable on a 4 string bass in G. As long as you play it in the correct (ie cello) octave and have 24 frets....

No need to change a single note.

It is pretty tricky though!

[quote name='High score' post='447370' date='Mar 27 2009, 04:19 PM']Hard to explain to some players that the easiest way to improve their sound is to cut on the EQ and not add to it. Anyway, where would the fun be if it ws easy [/quote]

I've been preaching this on this forum for so long I'm bored of it

Anyone who hasnt heard it wont be interested anyway!

[quote name='0175westwood29' post='449057' date='Mar 29 2009, 10:43 PM']1000w 410! jesus.[/quote]

Thats not so unusual these days, I think the Epifani UL410 is about that too, for instance....

The Berg ae410 is rated at 800w, but I've heard of people on talkbass chucking over 1000 at them too...

Me too - terribly bad back esp directly between and just above my shoulder blades (stretching this area is really tricky!)

Cant but give a huge +1 to the Roscoe Century Standards, my 5 is lighter then my old 4 (the Vester) which was always a light bass by anyone's standards, a Roscoe Century 4 would probably be lighter than air

[quote name='High score' post='447370' date='Mar 27 2009, 03:19 PM']Totally agree, unless the band is well known to you, trying out unknown gear in a live setting or having the time to do it is a no no. In addition, the ability to work to the best effect in an unknown venue is often the difference between a sharp gig and a mediocre one. At the end of the day you really must know intimately what your kit will peform like - musos are not very sympathetic if you get it wrong

Yep, hard surfaces, little to absorb sound creating both ''boom'' as well as a standing wave ie very low frequency feedback. Sounds an odd thing for some bass players to read but it is not the first time I will have used a compressor and the low frequency pad (80hz) on the bass channel to clean up their sound a little.

How do you find using two desk channels on an instrument? I tend to do it if there are extensive effects otherwise DI out just to limit the mics on the stage.

Lastly, always used to like dealing with a player who actually knew what the desk did and could explain what sound they wanted - made life a lot simpler. Hard to explain to some players that the easiest way to improve their sound is to cut on the EQ and not add to it. Anyway, where would the fun be if it ws easy [/quote]

2 channels -> 1 group if at all possible

Someone who knows what you're doing (I mean really) and understands the terminology is really nice to work with.

Having the time to ask a bassist about his rig/tone makes their day - every time - and makes mine better cos I have an idea of the direction they are going for....

[quote name='SimBass' post='444996' date='Mar 25 2009, 02:11 PM']except a LMII with mute[/quote]

Errr LMTube has mute - swing it over to just SS and you effectively have an LMII with a mute.....

[quote name='High score' post='447245' date='Mar 27 2009, 01:58 PM']Yep you are right - no EQ can add what has never been picked up. My experience has been mainly live sound where there is only one take !!

The difference between say a PG52 kick mic and an SM57 can be quite marked. The SM57 is incredibly neutral in it's response curve and doesn't colour the sound imo and only falls away below 150hz. The kick mic has a dramatically improved response curve at the low end. I have never used kick mics with notch type drops in response although they may drop 2-3 db in the mids picking up again to catch any transients. This is the reason I would normally try and use both mic and DI for a bass in a live setting - especially if the bass is using effects.

Lastly, thanks for your input, I'm always interested in the experiences of others who may have explored different gear....[/quote]


Funnily enough in a live situation I've sometimes found (in a particularly boomy room) that the drop off below 150Hz on an SM57 can really clear things up (better than using the DI). But its a rare thing to have the time to play about with different mics on bass amps lets face it!

If I have the power else where (decent desk eq, and a compressor) I'd rather use the most neutral mics/DI I can, on the other hand using what you've got well is where the real artistry lies IMO.

[quote name='High score' post='446570' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:09 PM']With my sales mans hat on, see my thread under Mackie PA for sale. I have three SM57 mics for sale at £50 each +pp (new price around £92). They are in as new condition and I think I still have the original packaging.

For what it is worth, I have done the sound for 100s of live gigs and used both SM57 and kick mics for bass. It is true the kick mics can be slightly scooped but any sound man worth his salt will effectively use the desk EQ to differentiate the respective instruments in the mix. In addition, and channels permitting, he will use both DI and live mic so that you will be able to maximise the sound of your effects. For a mic that will just about cover everything, SM57 is an industry standard and takes a lot of beating to be honest.[/quote]

Yeah I've done a tonne of sound and recording, and eq cannot really replace what something else has taken away. and thoise kick mics can have very steep notches taken out of them, really.

The sm57 is a really good solution on the cheap, and gives way better results than a D112 IMO, then again so does a Senn E835 and the cost about 50p (not really). I use an 835 as my 'I've run out of anything else' mic, it has literally never let me down....

[quote name='PapillonIrl' post='445735' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:04 AM']+1

Would add the SM7 to the list though. Good dynamic mics are your friend in less than stellar rooms. Would like to try the RE20, as I struggle with proximity effect sometimes when getting as close as I need to reduce kit bleed with the SM7. The RE20 has some sort of voodoo to counteract proximity effect I believe ?[/quote]

The RE20 has a long 'neck' with the diaphragm way down the end of it, so you physically cant get the diaphragm close enough to the source to get appreciable proximity effect.

The PR40 has more proximity effect as it doesn't have the internal distance between the end of the body and the diaphragm, however the off axis rejection from them seems unreal - almost too good to be true, so you should be able to put the mic in a couple of inches further back from your rig at gig volumes with no bleed issue at all.

I forgot the SM7 - thats a nice mic too!!

When I get the cash I will be getting a PR40 though, they are just ridiculous - partly due to having neo magnets in there I'm sure, but I dont really care why

IN the 90's I used to biamp a monster beast of a rig (2 HH PA 15s and 2 laney 410s running off a crown DC300 lab amp for the lows and a Laney G300 for the highs).

It looked 'kin ace, sounded pretty good too, was ridiculous to move about and totally unnecesary.

I loved it dearly.

Now I run a single very modern 410 and its louder, it sounds better and fills a room more evenly IMO.

With modern kit I dont think there is a real need to biamp, you can get a crossover to only send top end to effects then remix them before sending them to a single cab instead....

Again I'd point out that its a sound engineering no no to eq the bass and kick drum the same. They just compete with each other in the mix if you do. Therefore using a 'standard' kick drum mic (AKGD112 or whatever) is often a bad plan, they have serious amounts of built in eq, usually that doesn't favour bass in a mix (they suck out a tonne of mid around 300-400Hz and boost around 80Hz and as high as 2KHz).

You are in fact often better off in the mix if you use some thing as simple as an SM57 since it doesn't have that 80Hz boost and heavy low mid cut.

The reason the Senn MD421, EV RE20 and Heil PR40 are so good is that they have very good extension into the low frequencies without huge peaks and troughs. A lot of big brass mics work fine as well (Audix D4 is pretty good too I think).

Put it another way, the engineer will likely have to eq the heck out of a bass sound captured with a kick drum mic to make it really work [i]in a mix[/i] where as with the aforementioned mics (and even an sm57) they wont. Doesnt matter what you think the less eq you have to use to capture a sound the way you need it the better.

Use the hydrogen drum machine?

Its free.....

Yeah their prices rocketed up - I was told it was due to the exchange rate, but that was when we had the exchange rate on our side, and didn't take into account the unbelievable prices in the US compared to the UK. It doesn't really add up!

I hope the prices tumble now there is significant competition, but I do feel that the MB stuff is the best I've heard at a lightweight solution, and they have all the variations you can imagine covered....

[quote name='Marky L' post='443960' date='Mar 24 2009, 04:59 PM']In a recording situation, what does mic'ing your cab up actually give you?

I have it in mind to do this as well as DIing when we do some demos in the next few weeks. My head tells me it will give me a better 'live' sound.[/quote]

Well the sound of everything after your DI - so preamp & amp & cab at a minimum.

A lot of people like that, esp mixed back in to the DI'ed tone.

Personally I almost always end up using nearly all DI'ed tone anyway, but if you like driving the cahoonies of a tube poweramp into an 8x10 you have to mic up the thunder.....

One of the nicest bass sounds I ever got was using 2 mics on a cab (1 was 3 times further away than the other - all in a very nice room) and a DI, then mixing them all together down to tape (yup that long a go!). It wasnt particularly growly or whatever, but it really worked, I used a pair of sennheiser MD421 for that - lovely mics but quite dear.

Its very important to get the mic and DI in phase when trying this or you can do a lot more damage than good!

err get rid of him then.......

good drummers make my life really easy, bad drummers make it intolerable.

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='443402' date='Mar 24 2009, 08:35 AM']The Little Mark Tube has a push/pull mute switch, plusyou can crossfade between solid state and preamps. I want!

[/quote]

Yup, that one and its 800 watt brother are going to be a monster hit IMO

I see no reason whatsoever to upgrade my 450 though. Size is irrelevant (its in a rack case) and I absolutely love the sound of it as is.

[quote name='Stewart' post='443790' date='Mar 24 2009, 02:12 PM']I'm very fond of Audix D4 and D6...[/quote]

+1 heard many good things

Also though do yourself a favour and check out the Heil PR40 - its a cracking mic!!!!

Forget that its a 'broadcast' mic - so is an electrovoice RE20 and thats considered by many to be the 'king' of bass mics.

I would recommend avoiding a kick drum mic.

Simply because it will tend to eq your sound, and thats not always what you want, overlaying an overtly kick drum orientated fixed eq over the sound of a bass guitar doesn't work for me, esp if the kick was recorded with the same mic!

This started happening to me recently when the band I'm writing with were all writing together whilst I only ever heard the results (I'm based about 50 miles away from most of them)

Problem was they are all way into the rockier side, whilst I mean to be funky always.

A lot of what they'd come up with was really turning me off.

Musical differences eh!

Well I took ownership of a couple of sets of lyrics and have been writing and recording around them pretty much on my own, then feeding back my ideas to them - has really changed up my enjoyment, and means we now have more than one string to our bow as it were (they cant help but play funkier with what I'm giving them - I hope!)

Just wish I could write decent lyrics (and sing, and play guitar; I can program drums and keys fine), I'd never be involved with a band again

[quote name='Mr Fudge' post='439767' date='Mar 19 2009, 09:39 PM']My new rig has changed my perspective completely, MB SA450 and 2xAE 112 Bergs. I hardly use effects anymore, just a bit of wah and phlange when our 2 guitar players double up on keyboards and I am the only "guitar" on certain tracks. Im picking my lines more carefully and really enjoying my new found clarity in the mix. It has moved my playing on again which is always a good thing. By far the best sound I have got is through my bog standard 97 Jazz. I tried a super Nordy bass through it and although it was a lovely guitar wouldnt have swapped it for my old reliable jazz.[/quote]

I experienced the same thing when I got my rig, which is ever so similar to yours!

Also since getting the Roscoe I've finally got into having more depth as well as punch, largely because it seems not to sacrifice articulation in any way for depth, unlike every other deeper bass/rig combination I have ever played.

Up until the Roscoe I was really into that burpy bridge pickup tone of the Vester, but the Roscoe has amazing neck pickup grindy P tones going on too, which are at the same time really deep and really growly. Now I'm spoilt for choice with the one instrument - its brilliant!

I've never been a fan of toppy or scooped tones, but I do like the articulation around 800Hz a lot, and the harmonic richness of newer strings. Having said all that in a band situation I find I'm using less and less tweeter these days, preferring the top end of the 10s over the much higher up top end of the tweeter. Its set right for me if you only realise its there at all when I pop a note, the rest of the time I like it to seem like the tweeter isnt on at all....

Whats the scale length on this?