thebrig

I've been looking for ages for one of these, so I just had to have it!

PM'd
I will have it!

Price drop bump!

I have decided to put my lovely [i][b]Ibanez SR1200 Premium[/b][/i] up for sale.

It was just a few weeks old when I bought it, and has only been gigged once, that's not because I did not like it, it's just that the band I was in split up, and I have now joined an 'out and out' rock band, and my precision is more suitable.

It really is a fantastic bass, and I am genuinely reluctant to sell it, but I have recently purchased a GB Streamliner and Barefaced Super twelve, so I need to recoup some funds.

It has a super slim neck which is so easy to play, and a vast array of sounds due to the Nordstand 'Big Singles' pup[size=4]s, and [color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]EQB-IIISC 3-band eq.[/font][/color][/size]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]More info can be found at:[/font][/color]
[url="http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/eb_page12.php?area_id=3&data_id=85&color=CL01&year=2012&cat_id=2&series_id=17"]http://www.ibanez.co...=2&series_id=17[/url]

Was [i]£650[/i], but I am now asking for [b][i]£595[/i][/b] delivered or [b][i]£575[/i][/b] collected.

Genuine top quality [b][i]Ibanez hardcase[/i][/b] included.

This really is a lot of bass for the money!!!

This great little number is now in our set, I have no problems playing it, but any ideas on how to achieve the sound?

I play a Fender American Standard Precision bass through a Genz Benz Streamliner 9.0 and Barefaced Super Twelve.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1359057920' post='1949288']
Have to agree there, in The Daves we won`t play anywhere that charges people to get in, and we earn £200/£300 a gig, as the increase in bar takings more than covers that.

On this subject, a mate of mines band played Leisureworld in Hemel last year. The "promoter" didn`t do any advertising, not even a poster in the venue - which didn`t usually put bands on btw - and was overheard, by me, saying "I thought these guys brought a crowd". So they were charging a fiver on the door, not paying the band, and expecting to cream the rewards. So I know exactly where you`re coming from.

This is the same reason I won`t play The Horn is St Albans. My old band played there one night supporting Guns 2 Roses. We took 40 people with us, £8 on the door, and each of those 40 would make Oliver Reed & George Best look like amateurs. We must have generated nearly £1500 that night, and got paid £50. Each of the bar-staff were probably paid that.
[/quote]
The thing is, my band is a "new" band, we've only been together about five weeks, and we are looking to get out there around April time, so you could say that we might be desperate to try anything, and to be honest, we are more than happy to do any charity gigs, or jam nights for nothing, to get a bit of exposure, and some 'live' practise time into the bargain, but once a venue starts charging at the door, and it's not a charity, then that's a different matter, if we are the entertainment, then we should get a cut of the takings, without having to bring 20 people along.
Mind you, most of the gigs I've done in the past with other bands, we've usually had the wags plus a some friends with us, so in total (including the band), there could be between 15 and 20 people anyway, all spending money over the bar.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1359055472' post='1949217']
Having been there, and played - not for these guys, we were doing a favour to someone - I wouldn`t want to be in there with another 119 people. I think many communicable diseases would be spread with that many people in such a confined space. I`d put actual capacity at around 50 or 60 max.

The way to get good gigs is to play proper music venues, that have their own crowd. In my punk covers band, The Daves, hardly anyone travels to see us, aside from the regulars at the venues we play, but they are proper music pubs, with good crowds, who spread the word when decent bands are on. These pubs do put originals bands on as well. I go to these pubs a fair bit, and there is always a large crowd, and usually the same faces. Those are the gigs that are worth doing.

That said, if you don`t have to spend any more than the cost of a rehearsal to get there, gigs at the type of venue we`re discussing can be used as a rehearsal, to practice stage-craft, setting up/breaking down, getting used to going through FOH, working with a soundman, and playing under lighting (so getting blinded every now & then) so they aren`t that bad. By the time you get to real venues, you should be ready to do things professionally, and make an impression for the right reasons.
[/quote]
I wouldn't have a problem with it Lozz, if they weren't charging at the door.
They know full well, that without these bands (usually young), bringing their mates along, hardly anybody would turn up.

Like you, I go to many local pubs and see some excellent bands who are being paid ([i]average £200/300[/i]) per gig, it costs me nothing to get in, my only outlay is for the drinks, and they are normally full of regulars who are there mainly for the bands.
For me, these are real music venues, which are patronised by regular music lovers.

These so-called promoters are just exploiting bands, they don't even mention sending them a demo, or links to the band's music, so the unsuspecting punters who aren't connected with the bands, are paying £6 and taking pot-luck on what sort of standard they will be, whereas, with your usual music pub, you can check almost all the bands out on Lemonrock first, and if you do take a chance on an unknown band, it's not going to cost any more than a pint.

I can't see anywhere in their ad, where they actually say they are going to promote you.

If [b][i]yours[/i][/b], and [b][i]four[/i][/b] other bands turn up, and [b][i]you[/i][/b] and [b][i]them[/i][/b] only play to [i][b]yours[/b][/i], and [b][i]their[/i][/b] mates, what are they actually doing for you, other than get you to play for nothing, for a maximum of 20 minutes?
One thing is certain though, if all five bands get twenty mates to pay £6 to get in, they are £600 richer, and the bar takings will go through the roof.

Mind you, they might put you forward to [b][i]play for nothing[/i][/b] at all their other venues like these!

[b][i][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Barfly Camden [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Proud Camden [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Underbelly [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Camden Rock [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Enterprise [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Road Trip & The Workshop (Old Street) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Rattlesnake (Angel) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Acklam Village Market [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Surya (Kings Cross) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Heroes (Camden Town) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Luxe (Spitalfields) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Babalou (Brixton) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Nambucca (Holloway) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Horatia (Shoreditch) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Mass Club (Brixton) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Bridge House II [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Hideaway (Archway) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Annies Bar (Kentish Town)[/size][/font][/color][/i][/b]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358980332' post='1948197']
This type of gig has been around since I first started playing in London in the mid 80s, and I'm sure that they were around even earlier than that.

Back then there were the same doom and gloom attitudes about how all the small gigs would be pay to play, and guess what? There were still paying gigs available for those bands who merited them. And there still are now. The venue names change but overall everything remains as it has always been.
[/quote]
I'm sure you are right, but it still worries me all the same!

I see what you are trying to say, but there will always be bands willing to do these type of gigs, and if they do catch on, then what seems like [u]plenty[/u] of [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]paying London gigs, might soon become [u]not[/u] many [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]paying London gigs![/font][/color]

Trouble is, with more and more of these type of so-called promoters stating that, [b][i]"due to the music industry being hit so hard",[/i][/b] and making out that they are doing us a favour by staging these type of events, then if we go along with it, eventually ALL the pubs and venues will go along with it too, and then we might as well all call it a day!
Just take a look at how many venues these promoters have already got their claws into, if this continues, we are all in big trouble.
[i][b][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Barfly Camden [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Proud Camden [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Underbelly [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Camden Rock [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Enterprise [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Road Trip & The Workshop (Old Street) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Rattlesnake (Angel) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Acklam Village Market [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Surya (Kings Cross) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Heroes (Camden Town) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Luxe (Spitalfields) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Babalou (Brixton) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Nambucca (Holloway) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Horatia (Shoreditch) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]Mass Club (Brixton) [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Bridge House II [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]The Hideaway (Archway) [/size][/font][/color][/b][/i]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3][i][b]Annies Bar (Kentish Town[/b][/i])[/size][/font][/color]
No one is saying we have a [b][i]right[/i][/b] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]to be offered a better deal, but we should have some pride in what we do, and at least try to get some reward for what we do, no matter how small.[/font][/color]

Our five piece band use Dropbox to share files, and on it we have a [b][i]Song Suggestion[/i][/b] list in [i]Excel[/i], where we add songs with the YouTube link beside them, and we all have a column where we cast our votes.

We have a choice of [b][i]Yes[/i][/b], [b][i]No[/i][/b] or [b][i]Maybe[/i][/b], if a song gets five [b][i]Yes's[/i][/b], then obviously it's in, if a song gets mainly [b][i]Yes's[/i][/b] and a couple of [b][i]M[/i][/b][b][i]aybe's[/i][/b] then it will be discussed, and any song with just ONE [b][i]No[/i][/b] will be binned, as we are playing for sheer enjoyment, and we don't want anyone in the band playing songs they don't like.

With millions of songs to choose from, there should never be a need to upset anyone in the band.

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1358968931' post='1947916']
Seems fairly standard to me, generous even, offering £5 per head after 20. Welcome to London.
[/quote]
But I think it is only £5 per person after the twenty people you brought along, [u]who have come to watch you[/u]!
Not EVERY person over twenty.

This is what Green Roadie Promotions posted on Join My Band a couple of hours ago.
I have to stress that I am not against playing for free, like jam nights/open mics, where there is no admission charge, but I do think that if people are having to pay £6 to see you, then that's a different ball game altogether.
Just my opinion of course, and I stand to be corrected, if I'm out of order for thinking this.

[font=arial][size=5]Green Roadie Promotions[/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=2]London[/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=2]Posted: Jan 23, 2013 5:08 pm[/size][/font]

[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3][b][i]The only reason you would not get paid, is if you mislead us to believe you can bring 20 attending fans. All bands get paid from the 21st person attending to see them, unless agreed otherwise. Unfortunately due to the music industry being hit so hard, venue's have become strict about what they want. Otherwise we would be more than happy to offer a free reign. Admittedly it does make it harder for new bands, but there are ways of building up your fan base before taking the step into demanding gigs.[/i][/b][/size][/font][/color]

[i]This is my reply:[/i]
[b][i][font=arial][size=3]We NEVER demand gigs, we POLITELY ask for them by going to the venues (mostly pubs), and offering them a demo CD to assess us before booking us, or giving them references from other venues if we have not played there before. [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]We do expect to be paid a fair rate for providing the music for their customers, who would normally expect live music, if it is a venue that attracts customers, by advertising the fact that they are a live music venue. [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]We sometimes get gigs by doing a couple of numbers at jam nights for free, but none of these venues charge people to get in. [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]But if like you, they were charging £6 at the door, then surely, some of that should go to the people who are providing the entertainment, without having to bring along 20 people, just to get £5 for every person after that. [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]I notice that you have worded it very carefully by saying, [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]"All bands get paid from the 21st person attending to see them, unless agreed otherwise". [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]Does that mean if there are a 100 people there, and only 21 of them have actually come to see us, we only get paid £5? [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]If so, that's a total of £1 each for my band! [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]Or is it the TOTAL amount after the 20 people we bring along, meaning we would get £200? [/size][/font]
[font=arial][size=3]I think I already know the answer to that![/size][/font][/i][/b]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1358863997' post='1946204']
It depends really. These types of gigs can be used to polish your tradecraft before going on to doing the gigs that count. Chances are, if you`re not too far away, the cost between doing one of these and a rehearsal isn`t that much, and this way you can work on things that a rehearsal won`t cover. Providing you don`t get pulled into that "These gigs are important/these gigs count" trap, I think you can make them work for you.
[/quote]
Trouble is Lozz, they are only half-hour slots, allowing for changeover, you will be lucky to get fifteen minutes, so you wont get much time to sort anything out.
Also, how many bands are going to be living that close to Old Street in London, to make it worthwhile dragging along twenty mates, just so you can have a fifteen minute practise for free?

Just seen this on [b]Join My Band[/b].

[url="http://www.joinmyband.co.uk/classifieds/gig-available-for-february-28th-t456185.html"]http://www.joinmyban...th-t456185.html[/url]

I've posted a reply with my thoughts, maybe you people might want to add something too!

[i]This is my reply:[/i]

[b][color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]YOU ARE TAKING THE P*** OUT OF US BANDS!!! [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]BY MY CALCULATIONS, FIVE BANDS @ £6 PER HEAD X 20 PEOPLE, THAT'S A MINIMUM OF £600 FROM DOOR RECEIPTS, BEFORE YOU EVEN CONSIDER PAYING US. [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]THEN THERE IS THE AMOUNT OF EXTRA MONEY YOU WILL TAKE OVER THE BAR, DUE TO OUR EFFORTS OF BRINGING ALL THESE EXTRA PEOPLE WITH US. [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]AND I NOTICE THAT YOU ONLY HAVE HALF-HOUR SLOTS, WHICH WILL GIVE US A MAXIMUM OF 20 MINUTES PLAYING TIME, IF YOU ALLOW FOR LIGHTNING-FAST CHANGEOVERS. [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]AND WHAT ARE YOU ACTUALLY GOING TO PAY US AFTER THE 21ST PERSON? [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][size=3]I HAVE POSTED THIS AD ON MY BASSCHAT FORUM, IT MIGHT BE WORTH YOU CHECKING IT OUT TO SEE WHAT THEY THINK OF IT.[/size][/font][/color][/b]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1358644908' post='1942870']
recipe for disaster...anyone who claims they play better as a result of it either has issues or is a crap musican.
[/quote]
The same people probably claim they are better drivers too when pissed!

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1357500430' post='1923670']
Sorry, Brig - a member may remove his or her own posts, and I believe one of us has exercised that right in this thread.

That last comment you mention, I removed, for reasons which I hope are obvious. This is a discussion forum, and I want us to get back to that - we're better than falling out for long, and we're certainly better than insulting one another

Am I a moderator... or do I just have access to the moderation panel?
[/quote]
Fair enough, but I just think that it is a shame that some people have to resort to insulting behaviour, just because someone disagrees with them.
We've had 7 or 8 pages of great debate, then suddenly it all goes sour because of one persons unreasonable behaviour.

Oh well, happy new year to one and all.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I managed to copy this before he withdrew it:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why does inti keep saying things... and then deleting them?[/font][/color]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357491252' post='1923418']
Getting people on the dance floor as measurement of musicianship is quite funny. Last time I checked people danced to technotronic and jenifer lopez, while listened to Bach, Holdsworth and the Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Failing to see the evident flaws in the statement is quite funny, yes.
[/quote]
SNOB!!!

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357490144' post='1923372']
Do you actually read what I write or are you trying to get some attention as usual? Don't expect a respectful answer when all you do is trolling.

PS...good joke about the dance floor there. Joker.
[/quote]

I was quite pleased to start a post that has drawn a lot of interesting responses, some I agree with, and some I don't, but I respect everybody taking the time to respond, so why do we have to respond like this, just because someone has a different opinion?

What I don't understand is, why is the venom directed at stingrayPete1977, this is meant to be a debate, not an argument!

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357485098' post='1923229']But you're still a teacher even if you're unemployed as long as you have an exam. Think about that one. Same goes for many professions such as medicine, architecture...etc.
[/quote]
Not sure whether I understand this statement, are you saying that you can only be classed as a musician, if you have passed an exam?
There must be many great guitarists/bassists out there, who have never even had a lesson, let alone pass a music exam, but we all know [u]are[/u] great musicians,

Please forgive me if I have misunderstood what you are saying.

Thanks for the interesting replies so far.

From what I've read, maybe [b][i]entertainer[/i][/b] is a better word to describe what I do, as I really get into what I'm doing, and I think I have pretty good timing and can feel the groove ok, and I think I know in my head what's required to make a song work.

Still not sure if I'm a [i][b]musician[/b][/i] though!

I learnt a few chords on guitar at the age of ten, but never pursued it because I just did not think that I would ever be good enough to become a musician.

But around five or six years ago in my [b][i]mid-fifties[/i][/b], I was the physio of a football club, and the players had put together a make-shift band to play at the end of season presentation night, and they needed a bass player, so I volunteered thinking that they would not be that good, and I wont look too out of place just playing root notes with a few little fills here and there.

At the first rehearsal, I was shocked to find that they were all decent musicians, with quite a bit of gigging experience behind them, but I couldn't wriggle out of it as they had no one else they could call on.

So for the few weeks leading up to the big night, I set about finding tabs and YouTube video's of the SIX songs we were to play.
The crowd seemed to like what we played, and I must have been ok'ish, or at least shown some potential, because they decided to form a proper band, and asked if I would be interested in being the bass player.

I have now gigged regularly since then with various bands, but I don't know any theory, I don't know any scales or stuff like that, I don't know what they are talking about when they speak in musical terms etc... and I've never had a lesson in my life, but I can learn a song pretty quickly just by listening to it, and working it out myself, or sometimes if it's a difficult bass line, I might look for a tutorial video to help me.

I know how to play the original bass line to around 200 songs, although I do like putting my own take on things, but I still don't believe I can class myself as a musician, because I know nothing about music, other that I can remember where my fingers go.


[u][i]So, my question is this:[/i][/u]

Can I call myself a [b][i]musician[/i][/b], or do I just have a good [b][i]memory[/i][/b]?

[quote name='kevindoudie' timestamp='1357249975' post='1919983']
damn right ! I want to get this amp sold quick time!
[/quote]
Looks like the 36 hour "bump" rule has just been kicked into touch!