mcgraham

You're better off without him. There's 'considerate' levels of tolerance, 'gracious' levels of tolerance, and then there's 'please-flagellate-me' levels of tolerance. I am often in the latter camp and am learning to reel it back to the 'gracious' levels of tolerance, particularly when dealing with primadonnas above. Which reminds me, there's been an update on my related thread!

I used to wonder the same thing, but if you are running into a dirty amp then you have the ability to set your neck pickup to a chimey clean or bluesy sizzle and bridge pickup to roaring crunch and to easily switch between the two with the toggle switch. Clean and dirty sounds without a dirt pedal - et voila! Without that combination of vols AND selectors you can't do that. Another one is to set the neck volume to 'off', bridge to 'full' then get a faux stuttering trem 'cut-off' sound by toggling the switch back and forth. Loads of famous records with that on (brain isn't giving me any names right now tho!). If you were so inclined you could also put a treble bleed on just one of the pickup's volume controls to retain high end on one of them and still toggle between them easily if you like. Not possible with single volume control setups.

uhhh, nbtone, can I ask what exactly your website specialises in selling? there seems to be a LOT of different products for sale...

Personally I think it looks pretty cool. It involves some vintage technology in a simple way to provide a different tonality to your instrument if you so desire. What's not to like? Reading claim 1, it's quite specific, so I'd be surprised if that exact circuit had been done before. It seems probably that inventive step/non-obviousness would have been raised as an issue during prosecution, but clearly they've attended to those issues and it's granted. I'd certainly be interested in giving it a whirl!

Quality. A thread on 'The Gear Page' was cited as a relevant document. I'm just having a read of the granted patent now.

Mm20, I was reading your other thread - I'm really sorry to hear things have been quite that rough for you and your lady. I'm not a million miles away from you in Nottingham, so if you did want to get together to check out some sounds and see what you make of the Microkorg XL as well as the synthy sounds I've been getting with my pedals then I'd be more than happy to show you what I've been up to. We could even try and arrange a meetup with Shep/pantherairsoft so you can check out his mammoth rig and synth-esque setup.

Bear in mind that synths are literally just generating waveforms or sampled sounds, and are bundled with a load of effects filters etc to help YOU shape the sound, so the determining factor of whether a sound is 'in there' is whether you are capable of making it or not.

Wil, let me have a play with my microkorg later and see if I can't find one in there already. It already has piano and electric piano sounds in there, I just haven't had any reason to look for a rhodes sound, but I can't imagine it'd be hard to create even if it wasn't there.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1328446790' post='1526991'] I would rather download 4 Pink FLoyd cds or eat my own liver...... [/quote] I'm surprised you could type a response, I expected you to be literally shaking with uncontrollable rage at the prospect of a covers band charging that much.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1328178791' post='1522992']Appreciate the advice. It seems you are taking it from the same position as I would...eg a bass player playing synth for certain lines/songs/sets.[/quote] No worries! I'm still learning too! I posted in the other thread about how the synth (when programmed appropriately) can allow you to play like a keys/synth player - e.g. octave jumps, pitch bends, pads, etc - but you can also play to give the impression there's a real bass guitarist there by approaching note choices like a bass guitarist - e.g. root-fifth playing, running on single notes, scalar fragments, less extended arpeggios, etc. It's just the way the note choices and way you choose to attack the bassline changes the impression of what instrument is playing. Last night was another practice, and I went with the intent of using whichever worked best (expecting half bass/half synth) but to be honest the synth worked best EVERY time. Because you have complete control over the sound you can get it to till every inch of sonic space you need it to very easily/quickly. The band has never sounded as massive as it did last night. Sure it's not my beautiful W&T, but it's a HUGE fat sound.

Allihts, [url="http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/microkorgxl/editor/KorgUSA_MicroKORGXL_bank.zip"]http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/microkorgxl/editor/KorgUSA_MicroKORGXL_bank.zip[/url] direct link for you. All the 'bass' bank sounds are useable, particularly those in the vintage synth and rock n pop genre sections. If anyone is interested I can try and send them the two patches I'm using at the moment. They are designed as bass sounds so very functional. I used the synth again at practice last night. I'm taking both bass guitar and synth and fully intended to use whichever worked best, it just happened that the synth worked best for everything. Our band has never sounded so huge. One thing I really like about the keyboard interface is that you can play more like a keys player if you want - e.g. swell in pads, octave jumps, pitch bends - but you can also make it sound like there is a genuine bass guitar player there by just changing your approach to your basslines - e.g. root-fifth playing, running on single notes, scalar fragments, shorter/less extended arpeggios, etc... basically note choices that are more similar to the sorts of choices you'd make on a bass guitar because they are physically more natural to do on a bass, rather than note choices that are more similar to those that are physically more natural to do on a keyboard.

Oh and I've tried the software route, I really didn't like it. Tried, failed, couldn't get sounds I was happy with and it was in some ways more difficult to tweak than a stripped back 3 knob interface. You are also dependent on hooking up a keyboard and computer every time you want to gig live, while the XL can be hooked up straight to your bass rig or PA as a standalone bit of hardware. You can then edit it on the fly with just the synth, or via the computer, or some combination of the two.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1327851197' post='1517625'] Thanks all. My girlfriend has an iMac which I use (we sold the PC as no need for it with the Mac) as my computer. I'm not sure how much technology and information I need to get this going. The Korg Microsynth could go straight into a bass rig for now, and I think it has MIDI out...if that is what I need to record it on the Mac? Its one of those things...I know its going to lead to even more music gear and its a case of do I have time to learn it and use it. [/quote] Mm20, can I urge you to look at the Microkorg [u][b]XL [/b][/u]rather than the Microkorg? I was going to do EXACTLY the same as you but the shop assistant in the store who also happened to be a bass player and had more experience with both models (price difference was about a tenner before you ask) showed me what else the microkorg could do, and also explained the lineage of the two models. The XL is the successor to the standard Microkorg, they just haven't discontinued it. The XL has an internal synth module that is a marginally reduced size version of their fully fledged RADIAS engine in their larger £1-2k priced keyboards. The standard Microkorg has MIDI, as does the XL, but the XL ALSO has USB-midi so you can connect directly to your computer without a MIDI interface for software editing of the patches. It has more up-to-date software for software synth editing of the patches - search on YT for demos of it. The software is very very useable and is graphical enough to make it easy to visualise what you are actually accomplishing with the sounds. The XL is also easier on the eyes and more pleasingly tactile in operation than the standard one. It genuinely does EVERYTHING the standard does, but has a bit more under the hood, despite having slightly less on the dash. For the sake of a few quid I'd strongly recommend getting the XL. I can also talk you through how I've been tweaking mine, share patches, etc. I'm sure we could do that even if you got the Microkorg standard, but there may be instances where you won't be able to do something on the standard. Re: Moog little phatty - it's great, but it's not exactly small. If all you're looking to do is fulfil the role of the bass in a band (as I am most of the time, though the bass is often a driving force and the riff-maker in a lot of my groups) then I can assure you the Microkorg standard or XL will do a fantastic job for far less money and something around the size and weight of a PT mini.

Walman, let us know how you get on! As a final update, I did another stint at church on Sunday evening and got to tweak some sounds a bit more and see what worked. All in all, between practice and actual playing I probably got about around 3-4 hours total over the course of Sunday to play around with a full band. Bear in mind that the sort of stuff we're doing is not dead set arrangements, it's vocally pretty intensive, and a relatively full band, hence crazy sounds are not really doable on the fly because it gets in the way, but conversely there's lots of space for improv. I literally stuck with two patches for the whole of the second set cos they just worked better than anything else I'd managed to come up. 1) Minitaur patch I created, which was osc1=saw, osc2=square, LPF @ 12db/oct, no resonance. Assignable controls set to osc1 level, osc2 level and cutoff frequency. This gave me a lot of control over the sound of just a single patch. Worked for more aggressive songs. The saw wave gives it a lot of growl, really holds together on low notes, and the square wave fills in the upper harmonics nicely. 2) Simple sine wave patch I created, osc1=sine wave, osc2=sine wave an octave below blended in to fill in the low end, LPF @ 12db/oct, no resonance. Assignable controls weren't really necessary on this one as it was just such a pure dub sound. Worked for songs that were moderately upbeat, and also very slow songs and for pads in general. Think P-bass, tone rolled off, plucked with side of the thumb over the fingerboard - huge fundamental. Both patches needed an EQ boost around 160-200Hz to bring out the balls of the bass sound and so as not to interfere with the other instruments. All in all, simple patches worked best sonically and allowed me to do more. It sounded huge, and totally made some of the songs.

Ahh! Thanks for clarifying. I suggest speaking to pantherairsoft/Shep if you haven't already. While he isn't quite doing that (yet) his approach to his band means he is simulating a lot of effects that would normally be sonic space by keys players. Alternatively, could you perhaps just a get a simple control surface to trigger samples/pre-recorded parts? that should be relatively easy to do/trigger from your laptop whilst playing bass. I've just done a morning session at church on synth and it was excellent fun. I had a lot of positive feedback, and with a full PA behind you you can really fill a room.... dare I say it, perhaps fill a room even better than a normal bass can?

I haven't come across any section that allows drum loops in the background. However, that's not to say it's not there, or that there is an alternative therein, Off the top of my head, you could -split the keyboard (determined by pitch rather than ALWAYS the centre key or anything like that), -set up an arpeggiator pattern on one side [which tempo and beats are accentuated and swing etc can be easily tailored and in great detail] -then shift the pitch of the available notes down/up to the side where the arpeggiator is NOT sounding. That way you can have some kind of regulated rhythm with whatever feel you like, and STILL play over the top of it. Re: price - yes it is ludicrously cheap for what you get. Bear in mind that there is no innate 'tone' that means the sound instantly works in a band situation. You are responsible for creating the tone, so you need to have the creative mindset to come up with what you want (either by tweaking an existing patch or from scratch) and then be able to shape that to work well live. I'm still learning but time spent doing recording and experimenting with bass tone will come in handy here. It's a steep learning curve if you've never played with LPF/HPF, filter, chorus, flanger, compressor, different wave forms etc before, but I've found visualising it help.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1327741365' post='1515992'] Do you go through your bass rig with these?[/quote] Yes - good question! My rig is a Berg stack, so relatively flat anyway. My extremely limited experience is that you ideally need to tailor each sound to the rig, room and band you're doing. How well the patch comes out over the amplification (whether PA/backline) will affect how you set it up, the room will obviously affect that, and how many other members and how much space they each take up in the mix matters. To reiterate, I am just looking to play bass with my synth, so I'm not looking for immensely complicated sounds. If that's all you're looking for then your bass rig will be fine. If you want more top end or crazy effects, your rig may not be great at reproducing those sounds. [quote name='urb' timestamp='1327747511' post='1516088'] Really interesting this topic has come up - I've been experimenting too at finding a way to bring in more synth bass and keyboard sounds into my set up - I've been checking out the whole Soundblox pedals with the hot hand and they do look and sound amazing but I was thinking after hearing them that actually I don't necessarily use a 'filter' wah sound on my bass much and shelling £300 for all the kit was a bit much for that. My thing is that I now want to use Ableton live with 'LIVE' musicians - and so I've been researching and developing my set up for that - and I thought seeing as I have a ton of VST instruments that do some amazing bass synth sounds - and other synth sounds - it's just a case of controlling / playing them via MIDI - so I bought a [url="http://www.sonuus.com/products_i2m_mp.html"]Sonuus i2m[/url] recently and tested it in Ableton and it works well.[/quote] urb, thanks for sharing! I think I'm being a bit dense, what exactly are you looking to incorporate into your live gigs from synths?

Spent some more time programming last night. A really nice one is just a sine wave at about 75% volume, with another sinewave at about 40% but pitched an octave lower than the first, and then a low pass filter (12dB/oct) with the cutoff set low enough to balance out the volume across the range I'm using it in. It gets this MASSIVE sub sound that will just fill a room without getting in the way of a mix... simply cos there isn't anything else above that sub sound in the patch. I've created another one using that same sub sound as one layer, and then introduced a more aggressive top layer with a saw wave. I've also detuned it slightly (+12 per cent) to thicken it up. I like it, but would need to hear it in a mix to decide whether it works or not.

[quote name='pantherairsoft' timestamp='1327664629' post='1514936'] If I want something new now, other things have to be sacrificed... [/quote] I wondered what the bloodstain on your coffee table was. Been doubling as a sacrificial altar has it?

Oh well. Congratulations on the gig anyway!

Does it rhyme with 'The Farkness'?

That's a bit further away. Nevertheless, she does Skype lessons and I can guarantee they work fantastically. In some ways Skype lessons work better than IRL lessons cos you get a perfect recording of the lesson everytime. I've got one with a guy in the US later this evening. Believe me when I say speech level singing can turn your voice into something to be proud of very very quickly. In any case, I can wholeheartedly recommend taking singing more seriously - it certainly sparked off music for me in ways I'd never 'got' before.

Cheers BRX! Yea the cutoff is on an assignable knob but I prefer using it like a tone control and so prefer it on the modwheel. The resonance is probably going to go on a knob, but I need to work that one out first, and how it relates to the sounds I've got so far. The decay aspect of this sound isn't so noticeable. I also prefer a constant sustain followed by predictable release as soon as I let go. It makes for a less messy sound, which is reeeeeally important with church stuff as a lot is heavily improvised. EDIT: Which is why I prefer the attack, as I've found I can totally change the impression of the sound by just slowing the attack slightly, without actually changing the sound itself. Re: crazy sounds - not yet. I'm there to play bass and just bring in some keyboard like idiosyncrasies rather than do anything mental just yet. Lack of sonic space for anything other than basslines and fills (they depend on me a lot for that) is what I'm there for.

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1327616985' post='1514435']Just sit down and play away with the sounds mate, if you've got preset tones that you like, have a look at the settings are set at & then go through one by one and see what affects the sound and you should start picking it up fairly quickly. And most of all, have fun with it [/quote] That does seem to be getting good results! I spent yesterday afternoon reading the manual to understand the architecture and what might work for me. Spent an hour or so last night and again this morning just tweaking the sound that I felt was almost there (e.g. learning how different wave combinations work together, what I like, what I don't, how the blend of the two affects the overall sound, etc). The changes were, at least on paper, relatively small, and the sound is discernibly the same patch.... but it sounds SOOOO much better. In the same way as a good guitarist knows how to get a better sound from an amp that a lesser player would otherwise get. It would work for virtually any song that requires a bass but still stands out as distinctive rather than just being dull bass in the background. I've also set up the controls so that I can tweak on the fly from the 'standard' patch if necessary. I'll modify it further though... - Modwheel = cutoff (for sure- works so well) - Assignable knob 1 = chorus mix (set to 'dry' as standard) - Assignable knob 1 = flanger mix (set to 'dry' as standard) - Assignable knob 3 = attack time, so I can control how soft/hard the sound is on the fly Now that I've got a sound I'm really pleased with / nailed (though not necessarily finished ) it is different but not dissimilar to the first sound you hear on the Moogmusicinc YT channel's demo of the upcoming Minitaur. It's not AS aggressive with the saw wave, but still very similar sort of sound.

Well I can heartily recommend the Microkorg XL. It's got all the functions of the previous Microkorg (still in production) but has USB-MIDI connectivity as well as normal midi, so far easier to plug in and edit via a software editor if you so wish. It can be edited completely via software, or completely via the simple onboard controls, or left super simple via the onboard controls. I got a free aftermarket bank of patches from Korg's website that I replaced the stock sounds with. This is (IMO) far more useable than all the stock sounds the XL comes with. The details would bore you but it instantly took a cool but not necessarily useful instrument to an even cooler and totally useable instrument with little to no tweaking.