Mr. Foxen

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1361401614' post='1985587'] I think you're intentially trying to be obtuse. Pirating says that either: A) You think you're better than everyone else and don't have to abide by the same morals, courtesy and common sense as everyone else. Or You think everyone should be get all their music for free and no one should get any money from recorded music (thus basically shutting down the entire recording industry, making it so that you and everyone else will very rarely get any music, free or otherwise). Maybe you can share a third option where you put yourself on the same level as everyone else and there's a way that people that put the effort into writing and recording music (for music's sake rather than, say, a sound track for a film) can afford to do it for a living, but I can't see one myself. Legally, you're right, downloading music isn't illegal (unless laws changed since I was at college), it's the sharing that's illegal. It doesn't make it any more right from a moral view though and that you're supporting any kind of piracy doesn't say much about your character. Either way, I'm sure you're just trolling the forum for the sake of an argument so it's not worth getting worked up about. You either have morals or you don't, I'm sure reading this post (or any others) won't put make you see common sense. [/quote] Downloading: not piracy. Covers that. Congrats on the observation that people are individuals though. [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361400570' post='1985565'] Out of interest, when are you releasing an album? [/quote] Album is out, its linked in sig. Not happy enough with current thing for a serious recording, but live one is also linked in sig, not really hard to spot. If you go and look at people's sigs on this forum, there are several hours of music linked in this thread. Its kind of a hint that people want you to download it, because they make music for people to listen

Not repeatedly producing variations on the same false analogy expecting it to not pointed out each time is probably a good call. I'd be interested to hear a new point though.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361398232' post='1985515'] But if you avoid paying for it, then you aren't even getting caught up in the "Dictating what the person who has paid good money for it does with it". [/quote] If the person that buys it decides to send you a copy of it, is that up to them, or can someone tell you that you can't have what someone gave you?

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1361391231' post='1985332'] If someone invests their time and money in making something and sells it through channels designed to inhibit free distribution (however faulty), it seems only polite to respect their wishes. [/quote] Its the bit where their wishes extend to dictating what the person who paid good money for it does with it subsequently that is dodge.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1361394582' post='1985404'] I've got an Atari 2600 but can't find any of this music in any of the menus? [/quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djfadUJIFmk

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361390860' post='1985319'] I don't think it's at my whim, i think there are people with a lot more authority than me saying not to. Why would anything i say change how people behave? And peoples "Wishes" aren't always good. f*** whatever wishes people have. Some people wish to try and kill you. Some people wish to fly without any mechanical aids. Why would people's "Wishes" matter? [/quote] Who is this, and how do they have authority over anyone? As far as I know the top authority in this country is the Queen, via her consultation with our elected government, her authority is expressed through Law, and that law says downloading is fine. Maybe you are thinking of people in the industry, corporate leaders, and assign them some sort of power in the running of the state. That thing where corporate leaders have a major say in the running of the state, there is a name for it... [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361390860' post='1985319'] I don't think it's at my whim, i think there are people with a lot more authority than me saying not to. Why would anything i say change how people behave? And peoples "Wishes" aren't always good. f*** whatever wishes people have. Some people wish to try and kill you. [/quote] Are you trying to pretend things that are illegal are relevant comparisons again?

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1361389615' post='1985280'] Out of interest, how do you suggest that any new music gets written and recorded? [/quote] I seem to manage it, although not especially inspired at present. As do all of the bands I listen to, what with the being able to listen to them and all. [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361389715' post='1985283'] You are taking the word "Should" too literally. Just because you can justify doing something, does not mean that it is OK to do it. [/quote] So arbitrary rules outside of the law should be applied to people outside of their wishes, by your personal whim?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361389072' post='1985262'] There's obviously loss to the people who put a price on it. Like i said, just because you are smart enough to justify doing it, [b]still does not mean that you should[/b]. [/quote] See example below. And indeed, it isn't a case of should, because there is no obligation to download music, thankfully, because most music is terrible. But do you have the option to do something that is not restricted? Sure, because that is what not restricted means. [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1361389102' post='1985263'] If a band spent £10,000 making a CD then it sold 0 copies, everyone just copied it, try telling that band that they haven't suffered a loss. [/quote] How much would you have made or lost if you sold 0 copies and no-one copied it?

Downloading music isn't illegal. So every reference you make to 'illegally downloading' renders the accompanying statement meaningless. The whole of the point of copying is that there is no loss.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361377663' post='1985009'] That's not strictly correct is it? (which is the worst form of pedantry ). It may not be to do with who in particular receives the broadcast, but it has quite a lot to do with the number of people in the audience - which is why radio station ratings are so important and why Radio 1 will pay a larger fee than a hospital radio station. [/quote] Already said before about scaling. Its to do with the people as a whole, rather than any individually, they have no responsibility or link to each individuals, the customers of a commercial radio station aren't the listeners, they are the advertisers. The listeners are a resource to be exploited. BBC radio is another oddity, because it isn't in the same line of business as its competitors.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1361348637' post='1984766'] The radio station pay on your behalf everytime they send you the music. [/quote] Not on your behalf, they pay for broadcast rights, nothing to do with who receives it or what they do with it.

[quote name='heminder' timestamp='1361308794' post='1984434'] Yes, even analogue radio. [/quote] So your suggestion is that is a copy, or a copy is comparable to listening to radio. Legally, that is basically it, if you receive a file, you aren't copying it.

Radio.

I think a bunch more effort goes into live shows, at the commercial end, now than it did 30 years ago.

That violin part on the Bluebells Young at Heart is the standout example. In that the guy eventually got recognised as being everything good about that tune and got some money, but had to fight for it, since he was a session guy.

Depends on their contract. But all the session people I know are one off payments, because they aren't 'artists', they are doing what they are told by the 'artists'.

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1361281031' post='1983794'] Do you consider "a unit" as a digital copy of something that can be reproduced over and over with no extra production cost? (much like a flip?) [/quote] More that it can be reused. A copy lasts for more than a single listen, unlike a streamed listen. Maybe something like a paper cup would be better comparison, a paper cup is a one use thing, a proper mug is a copy, everyone can make a drinking vessel pretty easily, some circumstances, a disposable plastic one is easier, like from the water cooler at work, but you keep reusable mugs in the kitchen, probably commercially made ones due to quality, but the odd brought home from a craft evening job from a mate/relative. But someone wants paying every time you put a drink in either. Also the mugs in your office have adverts on them, the mugs are given free, but someone is making money off them.

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1361281031' post='1983794'] Do you consider "a unit" as a digital copy of something that can be reproduced over and over with no extra production cost? (much like a flip?) [/quote] Not even digital, broadcast, although radio is mostly going digital. One broadcast and the music is played through lots of radios, and the coverage to an extent determines the rate (so college radio will be paying less per play than a national big station), so maybe per bulb turned on or off. The per pluck analogy is false, since it isn't the switch designer operating the switch.

Barefaced super 15, or 12, 12 will look silly, 15 will be overkill.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1361275371' post='1983636'] I'm also puzzled about the heading 'Made In Britain' but available with a Japanese manual ... [/quote] Asia is a pretty big market. A lot of the hifi amps I was making went to South Korea.

Someone designed the light switch the electrician fitted. Pay them per flip?

Pledge and furniture polish is a bad one because it sometimes contains silicone, which will ruin everything forever. It is horrible stuff.

How is that in any way relevant to anything? Also, you can't own land here, the Queen owns it, you can just hold it.

Hence the line being drawn at illegal, vs not illegal. some things are illegal, and it will never work to draw comparisons between those, and things that are legal.