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[quote name='Greggo' timestamp='1375905646' post='2167334'] They are new strings that I put on, 45 - 105 but previous owner had same guage on too. Maybe should have gone with 40 - 100s. If lighter strings were put on and there is still the same bow is that a duff rod? [/quote] [i]thinner[/i] strings does not always mean less tension in the neck, or not enough to make a noticeable difference. I'd loosen the strings and see if the neck settles down to something relatively flat, and then tighten the trussrod (a little) in that position. As it is, you're tightening it against the tension that the strings are creating. Slacken them, and it should be easier to adjust. Alternatively, Stew-Mac recommend clamping the neck into the position you want (with the strings at tension, I think) and adjusting the rod then.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1375900255' post='2167200'] I didn't see it as any of those things. Rock was a music of rebellion but also an art form -- something to listen to. Disco was about partying -- something to dance to. Rock music was progressing as was the musicianship. Solos and wild experimentation were a growing part of it. Disco was about precise rhythm, repetition and simplicity. Rock lyrics spoke of angst, revolution and insight. Disco spoke of Love to Love Ya Baby and Boogie Oogie Oogie. When disco emerged, the clubs that hired rock bands switched to DJ's. So naturally, to the rock crowd, disco SUCKED. [/quote] That's getting closest to the attitude I remember getting instilled in me - something about some inherent artistic superiority in rock and triviality in disco (and many other genres too). In fact, going slightly off the disco topic, I remember when I was a Floyd-obsessed teen, arguing with a mate who was equally obsessed with Tears for Fears, and me trying to persuade him of the innate superiority of what I was listening to. He was polite enough not to disagree too fervently, but the real irony is that now, a few decades later, I'm probably more likely to be listening to TFF and him to Floyd! But although there are examples of rock trying to push the boundaries, and do something artistic (man!), there are plenty of crap rock records where the only boundaries being pushed were those of how much money could be earned by so few for so little. And it's not exactly as if the gay/disco scene had a monopoly on hedonism! Anyway, lots of good thoughts here folks, keep 'em coming!

Hmm, it looks like they had trouble nailing the vocal line too. ;-) Seriously tho, it took me a long time to work out what song that was, even though I was expecting it to be IT based on your comment. Ok, that makes IT into a listenable song, but I'm sure it could be better! :-)

Interesting. At the nut I've got 30mm between E and G, so very slightly wider spacing than yours. And at the bridge it's almost 20mm between strings, although I see that the E and G saddles have been nudged over as far apart as possible, so I think I could get it down to almost 18mm spacing by adusting those to the other extreme. But I'm actually happy with it as it is, and it suits my finger-style playing.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1375886226' post='2166963'] ...Ach, this is pedantry. It doesn't really matter about the semantics, just excited to see something that I never thought I would see. [/quote] Agreed. Sorry for letting me pedantry get the better of me. It's good news (if true) in any case.

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1375885740' post='2166942'] My first intro to genesis was Invisible Touch on top of the pops. it was not a good intro. ... [/quote] Frankly, after an introduction like that, I'd understand if you never ever wanted to go near the band again! IT has to be one of the most awful pieces in the entire Genesis repertoire. Except .... I've had this idea buzzing round my head for a year or two, which I can't execute but maybe some talented member here can. I'm hearing the song IT as a slow lamentful blues. I picture an old, stubbled guy sat at the end of the bar very late one night, looking back over the crap this woman has been putting him through. A slow plodding beat accompanies a guitar that the player can only just summon up the energy to strum. "Well, I've been waiting ... waiting here so long ... but now I know ... " Some of the lyrics really lend themselves to that sort of reflective, world-weary, melancholic feel, but the melody needs to be re-worked, and I just can't nail it myself, especially the chorus. But if anybody else wants to take on the challenge of turning IT into a good song, I'd love to hear your attempts!

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1375884938' post='2166923'] OK, sensible reply then - I think the answer lies within any genre being diluted. The early disco stuff was great music but once it catches on, the bar is somewhat lowered and acts of a substandard nature kick in - this is why a genre sucks. I remember in rock circles the debut Guns 'N' Roses album coming out in 1987 and it was fresh and exciting. By the time Nirvana came along we had 1000s of clone bands who were mostly awful so Nirvana broke through. Same with Britpop, any genre. I guess this is why Disco sucked even though a lot of it was actually very good. [/quote] Now, you see, that all sounds reasonable, but doesn't seem to explain why there was such a widespread and violent reaction to disco, and not to any other genre. And I think the comparison with punk is an interesting one: punk as a musical and fashion movement aroused a lot of anger among the general populace (in the UK, at least), but not just within the musical community (by which I mean both musicians and also people who listen to music and consider that as an important part of their lives). Whereas disco seemed to provoke less reaction among the general populace, and much more of a reaction among the musical community. [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1375884883' post='2166922'] It's fairly well established what was going on... working class, white men saw disco as a threat as it was associated with afro-americans, latinos and the lgb community. Some of the backlash was quite violent: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Demolition_Night"]http://en.wikipedia....emolition_Night[/url] [/quote] A-ha, so wikipedia has the answer, again! Except that, even then, I'm not convinced that this explains the narrow-ness of the reaction to disco, in comparison with the breadth of the reaction to punk. Mind you, I am basically comparing the reaction to punk in the UK with the reaction to disco in the US. And I've heard that the US might just possibly not be exactly the same as the UK culturally.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1375867450' post='2166572'] I don't think the Starcaster bass qualifies as part of the Pawn Shop strategy - it technically never existed (beyond something like 4 prototypes) and so in practice is a brand new model as far as Joe Public is concerned. [/quote] Isn't the Pawn Shop strapline "guitars that never were but should have been"? Sounds like the Starcaster bass is a perfect fit for that slogan. Looks pretty cool, and in line with the slightly more creative things that Fender are doing these days. Good news.

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1375883452' post='2166891'] I think it was nstarted as a kind of joke by a DJ, but turned into a bit of a riot. To be honest, amongst the really good stuff was some total dross. [/quote] Yeah, I guess I'm trying to understand how it caught on and became such a big deal. Sure there was a lot of total dross, and some good stuff. But you could surely say the same about any musical genre ever?

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1375884512' post='2166914'] And yet Kev, also it would seem answered the question! [/quote] That might be true, but don't go encouraging him!

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1375884220' post='2166904'] Oops, misread the thread title [/quote] Thanks for your contribution, Kev. Now kindly go to the back of the class, and pay attention next time!

Now, back on topic: of the 3x3 EP, although Me & Virgil is good, I always loved You Might Recall. I don't know what it is, but something about the jangly sound and wierd-sounding chords just grabbed me.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375883427' post='2166887'] Veering OT, but The Final Cut is arguably a Waters solo album in Floyd's clothing... whereas Genesis always sounded like a band rather than one person's "vision". [/quote] Yes, TFC is as close to, say, Pros & Cons of Hitch-hiking, as Momentary Lapse is to About Face. So there's a strong argument for saying The Wall was the last actual Floyd album. But that didn't fit my argument ... ;-) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375883429' post='2166889'] OK - Genesis do American roots music :-) [/quote] Ah, now, that's a term I can cope with! :-) [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375883703' post='2166894'] Ah, that reminds of a convo I had recently - when I said I like soul but not blues, I was asked, what's the difference? My answer was if I liked it it was soul, if not then it was blues [/quote] At last, someone else who understands!

So what's the string spacing on the 5 like? And does it have a nut that is the correct width for the neck? (unlike on my 4-string, that has almost 1mm either side of the nut!) I'll report back on the Ritter once it arrives. But it sounds like the official Warwick gigbag might be the best for you; it's got a fair bit of padding, and it looks reasonably well built. (I don't have the Starbass one, but I have two other bags from the same range). The catalogue number is RB20631 if you can find a dealer.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375882615' post='2166872'] The band have said that it's their attempt at a Band (sic) song - you can easily imagine Levon Helm singing it. It's kind-of up there in the 'Genesis Do Country' pile along with Ballad of Big, That's All, Driving the Last Spike.. Phil has a thing for the Old West. [/quote] Yes, and no. Yes, about the Band, and even the name "Virgil" immediately recalls The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. And so maybe their problem with the song is that they don't remotely come close to pulling that style off the way Robbie Robertson can do so effortlessly. I still can't actually convince myself that Dixie is not a hundred+ years old; it just has such an authentic old-time feel to it. And no, it's not Genesis do country. Sorry, I've had to explain this to a few people over the years, but it's really quite simple. Look, country is bad. Anything that is listenable, or even good, therefore, is not country. Some people don't seem to get this. When I explain that some Johnny Cash stuff is good, and therefore, those songs are not country, they look at me like I'm a little bit deranged. I don't understand it myself, as it seems so simple. So anyway, M&V, BoB, TA, etc are all pretty good, and therefore not country. Ok! ;-) :-)

My son started listening to Chic this morning (which means, scarily, that probably before the year is out he'll be doing Bernard Edward lines better than I will ever be able to, and the blighter is only 12). And it got me to thinking about the Nile Rodgers documentary, and the impact of the "Disco Sucks" campaign on the band. So what was going on there? Why did Disco provoke such a reaction amongst rock lovers? Even punk didn't seem to arouse the same ire amongst music lovers. Was it a generational thing? Can anybody remember? (Or guess?)

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375873253' post='2166680'] Ah, I've got a massive soft spot for Fading Lights. A whole song that just the three of them could play live, and the lyrics are so poignant. Lovely. [/quote] Like Floyd's last album being "The Final Cut", I always wondered how conscious Genesis were of this. It's beautiful, in retrospect, for the last song on their last album to be this song. But did they really already know that that was it? (Yes, I'm aware that a band calling themselves Floyd released another album or two after TFC, and that a band calling themselves Genesis released another album after WCD. But, seriously ... ;-) )

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375881584' post='2166848'] Oof.. just listened to Me & Virgil for the first time in ages. What a great song. The drumming is fab, and Rutherford's nod to Roger McGuinn in the instrumental break is mint. I never understood why the band hated it so much...? ... [/quote] Y'know, I'd never clocked how Rutherford was channelling McGuinn, so thanks for pointing that out. When I first got into guitars, because of the Genesis influence I was led to 12-strings, and then when you're into 12-strings, McGuinn is a name that keeps coming up. And I never saw much link between them - they both have exceedingly different approaches to the instrument. And yet here they both come together. As for why the band don't like the song ... I don't really know. I can see the lyrics being thought of as a little too simple, although it's the sort of growing-up story that can be simple and yet profound. And, frankly, it's far from the worst lyric Genesis have recorded (they have done an awful lot of utter stinkers in their time), and the music is really pretty good. Maybe again it had too much of the old Genesis sound, at a time when they were determined to move away from it? It does sound like it could have fitted on Duke, but very definitely not Abacab.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375439196' post='2161257'] Ah, an adjustable base - neat. I also spotted this one, it looks like it may be a bit "plasticky": http://www.amazon.co.uk/TRAVEL-STAND-ACOUSTIC-ELECTRIC-GUITAR/dp/B00B4EJXE0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_MI_3 ...[/quote] I've just received this stand, and it does the job. It is very plasticky, so probably won't last too long with much rough handling, but otherwise it does the job. It's coped with a dreadnought, a telecaster, a thumb and a hollowbody and all have balanced well. And even with a cable plugged in (as long as it's right-angled jack) they were fine whereas sometimes the socket would end up on top of a leg on some other stands. It is very low to the ground. if you have a strap button right at the end of your bass, and some kinds of strap locks, then there may be issues. I've got Dunlop straplocks on the Thumb, and it wasn't exactly resting on both legs of the stand properly, but was still reasonably stable. Schaller straplocks might be too much for it though. One curiosity is that it doesn't need to adjust at all - with it set at the maximum (for the dread) it would still happily take every thing else - the front part of the slidey bit actually makes very little difference. One final and very unexpected bonus: it holds my mandobird very easily too! One corner goes [i]underneath[/i] the leg while the other is on top, but it works and is quite stable. I'm chuffed!

Easy - just take your Wal to a luthier and get them to sort it out and remove those funny staple-things that people put in the necks of some cheap basses. It'll be much easier to play, you'll have a fretless Wal, and you won't need another bass. ;-)

Er, we've already had a thread trying to track-down a case/bag for these buggers. There is an official Warwick one, but it seems only one or two German/Swiss shops have it in stock (and not Thomann). I'd expect the Starbass to be very similar proportions to the Epiphone Jack Casady bass, so the hardcase they sell would probably do for the Warwick. And there's an Ibanez (Artcore?) hollowbody bass that comes with a gigbag, so if you could get that bag separately it might do, but I haven't managed to track down a supply of the bag, except with a free bass inside! Meanwhile, I've snagged a Ritter bag on here which looked like it might fit, but I'll only know whether it actually fits the bass when it arrives. Mind you, I'm assuming the 5-string Starbass has the same size body as the 4-string. What's the width on the 5er? The 4-string is 39.5cm across at its widest.

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1375867527' post='2166573'].... Another bit of surprising bass-playing from latter Genesis is the instrumental at the end of Living Forever on We Can't Dance. A minute or two's brief excitement in another otherwise endless landscape of mediocrity on that album. [/quote] Agreed. That album was curious, as there were a few hints of real Genesis spread through the album. E.g. Tell me Why is a god-awful song, but blessed with some lovely 12-string stuff; the first time a 12-string had appeared on a Genesis album for ages. Fading Lights and Driving the Last Spike had some hints of glory but ultimately fell short, and even No Son of Mine had some atmosphere. But that instrumental bit in Living Forever is a real highlight: it was as if they'd accidentally remembered how to be Genesis, but quickly stopped it, to get back to the excruciating mishmash that was the rest of the album.

[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1375721383' post='2164759'] I'm on the hunt for some plastic pickup covers for a 5 string Jazz. Can't seem to find any UK sellers online; does anybody know where I could source a pair? [/quote] Surely a local pickup manufacturer might well be able to sell you some. I'd try Wizard pickups, for example, but there are quite a few other cottage-industry types in the UK.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1375740226' post='2165138'] This MiK appears to have been discontinued. The Warwick web site only shows the Rockbass and MiG versions. According to Thomann the original price was approximately £1600. [/quote] Yes, the MiK version is discontinued, and the Chinese (Rockbass) version is slab, not an archtop. As soon as I heard that I was hunting down a reasonably priced Korean fretless. They were always rare, but were going for £1500ish until quite recently. In fact I remember just 4/5 months ago seeing one for about 1500 euros and thinking it was a bargain compared with the other prices I'd seen.