pitch axis theory

[Kiwi]

I'm curious about it, has anyone here had any experience of applying it to bass?

[mcgraham]

Do you mean the pitch axis theory that Satriani advocates? If so I've used it to great effect. Really helped me to unlock ear training. The basic idea is that if you play in (for example) E major, you can use the root of the scale to 'pivot' into other scales, thereby using different intervals and consequently unlocking different sounds. Satch does this in various ways, e.g. constantly flicking between different scales centred on one note (like a generic key), a chord 'progression' where only the chord tones change whilst the root stays constant, etc. You can also do this using any note within the first/preceding scale, but typically works best on the root, and then chord tones. This device/concept allows you to move between scales easily, and thereby give you different 'pools' of notes to work with.

In essence, it teaches you to look/listen for differences between intervals and groups of intervals, internalise the sounds of scales, as well as what it feels like to move between different scales. It also helps free you up to not be afraid to play something other than the known 'safe notes' in a key. At least that's my view.

Here's a good video of him demonstrating it: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SckVz3XpLs"]Satch YouTube Vid[/url]

Mark

[The Funk]

Thanks for the explanation and the vid. I don't see how a bassist in an ensemble could afford to risk playing anything other than the root note.

[xilddx]

I remember reading about this in Guitar World in the late eighties, in the Satriani column. I think he called it something else back then. It's a similar idea to pedal tones, something I do on guitar all the time with chords. It's more of a compositional than an improvisational tool from what I can see. On bass, try playing a three note chord appeggiated over the G as a pedal tone and move it up and down the neck, nice things can happen, can't see it happening in a band scenario though .

Edited April 10, 2009 by silddx

[mcgraham]

Depends what you mean by 'ensemble'. Knowing the above helps massively in understanding shape and feel of a bassline beyond the absolute basics. Not that sticking on the root is a bad thing at all. Just saying that the above helped jumpstart my creativity.

Mark

[The Funk]

Well, if he's reharmonising the tune at random keeping the only constant as one note - and you're supposed to somehow accompany him - I don't see what notes you can play apart from that one note.

As a solo improvisational device, I get how it can be beneficial. Just not sure how it can be applied elsewhere, unless it's merely used as a compositional tool as sliddx suggested. If that's the case, then you'll know where all the changes are and you can play accordingly.

[Kiwi]

I was just wondering whether it might be an interesting way into creating some fills or passing phrases that lead into chord changes.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='460498' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:16 PM']I was just wondering whether it might be an interesting way into creating some fills or passing phrases that lead into chord changes.[/quote]

But do you need some big old "theory" to do that? Actually, Pitch Axis is not a big old theory, it's simply playing a few different scales with the same root note. Great for hearing the difference between say C Major and C Lydian, ie. play a major scale with an augmented 4th. But the more I think about it, I can't understand how it can be a "theory".

[Kiwi]

Nope I don't need a theory to know how to play notes but thats no excuse not to pursue a line of interest. Sometimes these open doors to other things too.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='460807' date='Apr 12 2009, 09:36 PM']Nope I don't need a theory to know how to play notes but thats no excuse not to pursue a line of interest. Sometimes these open doors to other things too.[/quote]

Oh I quite agree, I wasn't being awkward. I think what this "theory" can do is open your ears to new key modulations, some of which you'll find inspiring, thrilling even, and build them into your style. I think if one starts with a C Major scale and suddenly hit a lovely arpeggio in C Locrian or something, it could open one's ears to all sorts of things. However, I think I'd prefer to call it "Fixed Point Modulation", which is really what "Pitch Axis Theory" is.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Crazykiwi

[xilddx]

CK, have you listened to much North Indian classical music? What Satch is doing is similar, albeit in a very basic, much more modulated form. The pitch axis thing is much more suited to drone based melodic music I reckon, such as ragas.

Check this out [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITbs-gSiTc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITbs-gSiTc...feature=related[/url]

[Kiwi]

[quote name='silddx' post='460842' date='Apr 12 2009, 10:24 PM']CK, have you listened to much North Indian classical music? What Satch is doing is similar, albeit in a very basic, much more modulated form. The pitch axis thing is much more suited to drone based melodic music I reckon, such as ragas.

Check this out [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITbs-gSiTc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITbs-gSiTc...feature=related[/url][/quote]
As a matter of fact I've been mucking about with a little indian music although I have no idea if it was northern or not. I did have a look into some sitar music but discovered that they use a different tuning system to western music so it didn't go far.

[xilddx]

Naturally, the instrument is tuned differently, but notes are notes, and scales are scales. The REALLY big difference is the use of quarter tones and the subtleties in their use are phenomenally difficult to get right. They are used differently in ascending or descending passages. They are used to convey different "moods" like morning, afternoon and evening. They work too. Be interesting on a fretless bass, but by god, the practice and study involved would be horrendous!

Anyway, sitar has been used in western music very successfully, especially in bands like Transglobal Underground (sorry, bigging up my mates there There's no reason why we can not apply Indian or Arabic classical scales to what we do. Ask URB. I'll ask Sheema to give me some interesting sitar scales and melodic modulations over a drone note for us to have a crack at. It will be the same idea as Satch's axis stuff, but possibly more interesting, reversed in terms of "axis" note pitch, for us bassists. Be interesting to try some mad polyrhythmic passages over 10:4 or 11:4 using Indian Classical scales don't you think?