Stagg EUBs

[Bilbo]

I have mentioned here before that I have tried the double bass before but, due to injuries caused to my hand(s), I couldn't keep playing. I was wondering, therefore, how these Stagg's compare to the real thing not in terms of the sound etc but in terms of the sheer physicality of playing them. Does the fact that they are smaller make them easier to 'get around'? It may be an option for me as an alternative.

[slobluesine]

harder to play IMO Bilbo, i tried an upright recently and couldn't believe how much easier it was on my left hand, hence the pending sale of my Stagg, lots of other plus's with the Stagg tho, price, loud, no feedback, looks cool

found the Powerballs very good for strengthening up the hand/arm muscles too

[Bilbo]

Looks like a non-starter then! I cannot play a double bass for more than about 15 minutes before I start getting pains in my left arm (not fatigue, real pain!!).

[slobluesine]

Bumma Bilbo!! i even put some extra light strings on the Stagg and it's still hard work, i am OLD tho which dont help, REALLY wish i'd started on DB years ago

[Mateybass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='415128' date='Feb 20 2009, 11:37 AM']I have mentioned here before that I have tried the double bass before but, due to injuries caused to my hand(s), I couldn't keep playing. I was wondering, therefore, how these Stagg's compare to the real thing not in terms of the sound etc but in terms of the sheer physicality of playing them. Does the fact that they are smaller make them easier to 'get around'? It may be an option for me as an alternative.[/quote]

I've had a Stagg EDB 3/4 for about a month and after visiting my local luthier, the action is fantastic. Let me qualify that statement by saying that I'm a bass guitarist first and foremost and always found my standard double bass to have too high an action to play as quickly as I play fretless. This Stagg was a cheap experiment (£284 including shipping) and I have to say I'm absolutely delighted.

The luthier recut the nut so the strings lie almost on top of the fretboard at the head end, and sanded the underneath of the bridge saddle so I could lower the action to something more comfortable. It is amazing how low it will go and testament to the trueness of the fingerboard. I've actually had to raise it a little from it's lowest setting so that I can play the G-string with a bit more force. Even my luthier, who has done a few double basses in his time, was shocked at how low it went. At the 12th fret position with the current action, I can just slide a pound coin underneath the E string but not quite under the G string. It means for me that I can use my left hand in a manner to which I am accustomed from fretless playing and much less effort is required to press the strings down.

The next thing for this eub is a 5 string conversion, my luthier doesn't foresee any problems in doing it and once the smaller footprint machine heads have arrived, he'll be undertaking that job. A 5 string EUB for less than £500?

[slobluesine]

contact details of the Luthier if you dont mind? how much did he charge? whereabouts is he?

[Mateybass]

[quote name='slobluesine' post='417514' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:23 PM']contact details of the Luthier if you dont mind? how much did he charge? whereabouts is he?[/quote]

He's John Le Voi in Lincolnshire. He hasn't done mine yet so wait till it's done and I expect he'll be able to quote once he knows what's involved. He's a mate of mine so for me it'll actually be a lot less than £500. To date the conversion costs are £47 for a low B spirocore, £65 for a set of 5 Hipshot HB6Y 1/2" in black... er... and the bass itself which I got in a sale from iMusician for £284 all in. That's all I need so it's down to John when the machine heads arrive.

[wulf]

The downside of a low action is that it moves further away from an upright bass sound. When I got my Stagg, my brother (relatively experienced on DB) noted that the action seemed very low to him, although it did make it easier to play. I've subsequently adjusted the bridge to make the action a bit higher. One benefit of the Stagg is that the adjustment is pretty simple (solid bridge mechanism and no sound post to worry about).

Wulf

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Mateybass' post='417488' date='Feb 23 2009, 02:59 PM']I've had a Stagg EDB 3/4 for about a month and after visiting my local luthier, the action is fantastic. Let me qualify that statement by saying that I'm a bass guitarist first and foremost and always found my standard double bass to have too high an action to play as quickly as I play fretless. This Stagg was a cheap experiment (£284 including shipping) and I have to say I'm absolutely delighted.

The luthier recut the nut so the strings lie almost on top of the fretboard at the head end, and sanded the underneath of the bridge saddle so I could lower the action to something more comfortable. It is amazing how low it will go and testament to the trueness of the fingerboard. I've actually had to raise it a little from it's lowest setting so that I can play the G-string with a bit more force. Even my luthier, who has done a few double basses in his time, was shocked at how low it went. At the 12th fret position with the current action, I can just slide a pound coin underneath the E string but not quite under the G string. It means for me that I can use my left hand in a manner to which I am accustomed from fretless playing and much less effort is required to press the strings down.

The next thing for this eub is a 5 string conversion, my luthier doesn't foresee any problems in doing it and once the smaller footprint machine heads have arrived, he'll be undertaking that job. A 5 string EUB for less than £500?[/quote]
Keep us posted on this please, I play a 5 string DB and would like to have an EUB to match, but there seems to be a lack of affordable ones!

[endorka]

I have an NS Design EUB that I'm using just now - the action can be adjusted to be as low or as high as you like, but as someone else has mentioned, the lower the action, the more it sounds like a big fretless bass.

In any case, it is not really the action that makes the EUB more difficult to play than a normal double bass, it is the fact that irrespective of using a tripod or "end pin" stand, the neck of the instrument tends to move and shoogle around more than that of a normal DB. As a result, I find it harder to stay in tune when shifting, meaning I often have to supervise the shift by looking at my left hand, something not so necessary on a normal DB.

The other aspect to the wobbly neck is that I find I have to grip the instrument harder with my left fingers and thumb, which of course is more tiring than the normal DB.

The thing that stops the normal DB wobbling is the fact that you can hold the body of the instrument "look no hands" with your legs & torso, and it is really secure. The EUB just can't do this as well.

I'm not dismissing EUBs by any means, indeed I am currently using one because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in this case, but I do think they are harder to play than a normal DB.

Jennifer

[Bilbo]

[quote name='endorka' post='419967' date='Feb 26 2009, 11:32 AM']The other aspect to the wobbly neck is that I find I have to grip the instrument harder with my left fingers and thumb, which of course is more tiring than the normal DB.[/quote]

You have just answered my question in one sentence, Jennifer. It is primarily my left hand that is vulnerable to cramping and it feels like this tendency is aggravated when I try to play with my left arm raised (i.e. like when you play an upright). If the physical effects of playing a EUB make the left hand have to work even harder, I suspect that it will be worse rather than better.

I guess I will have to stick to trying to work with the electric and seek a more organic sound down that route. I know it can be done but I still get the prejudice (lost a gig last week over it).

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Edited February 26, 2009 by bilbo230763

[BigBeatNut]

[quote name='endorka' post='419967' date='Feb 26 2009, 11:32 AM']In any case, it is not really the action that makes the EUB more difficult to play than a normal double bass, it is the fact that irrespective of using a tripod or "end pin" stand, the neck of the instrument tends to move and shoogle around more than that of a normal DB. As a result, I find it harder to stay in tune when shifting, meaning I often have to supervise the shift by looking at my left hand, something not so necessary on a normal DB.

The other aspect to the wobbly neck is that I find I have to grip the instrument harder with my left fingers and thumb, which of course is more tiring than the normal DB.

The thing that stops the normal DB wobbling is the fact that you can hold the body of the instrument "look no hands" with your legs & torso, and it is really secure. The EUB just can't do this as well.[/quote]
That 'neck wobble' you talk about might be true of some EUBs but I'd definitely dispute it being true of the one I've got.

It's a BSX Allegro which has an endpin and a brace that positions the bass nicely for playing and completely stops any kind of neck wobble. It easily feels as stable against my body as the 3/4 upright does.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=1845"]This picture[/url] happens to show the brace pretty well. (It also shows that when I first acquired the bass my hand positioning left something to be desired).

And as it happens, it's got a slimmer and more comfortable neck than my upright.

I'm still a bit of an upright newb (neither EUB or DB has been gigged as yet) but the BSX seems like a goodie to me. In my search for an EUB I tried and rejected basses like the NS (felt wrong to have the bass locked in place on a tripod) and others that were endpin based, but just didn't have a comfortable brace (Warwick Triumph didn't work for me).

That said, I'm not necessarily sure it's significantly easier to play than an upright to offer you much, Bilbo, but you're welcome to try it if you're ever in London.

Andy

Edited February 27, 2009 by BigBeatNut

[endorka]

[quote name='BigBeatNut' post='420551' date='Feb 27 2009, 01:08 AM']That 'neck wobble' you talk about might be true of some EUBs but I'd definitely dispute it being true of the one I've got.

It's a BSX Allegro which has an endpin and a brace that positions the bass nicely for playing and completely stops any kind of neck wobble. It easily feels as stable against my body as the 3/4 upright does.
........
I'm still a bit of an upright newb (neither EUB or DB has been gigged as yet) but the BSX seems like a goodie to me. In my search for an EUB I tried and rejected basses like the NS (felt wrong to have the bass locked in place on a tripod) and others that were endpin based, but just didn't have a comfortable brace (Warwick Triumph didn't work for me).[/quote]

I agree that the tripod based EUBs are a bit odd, which is how I used the NS Design in the first place. For some time though I've been using an endpin stand that seems similar to the one you showed a photo of, like this;



Except I use it sitting down. I find it an improvement on the tripod, but definitely not as good as sitting down playing the double bass "cello style", like in my avatar.

Then again, the photo shows you standing to play the EUB, and I would agree that the the endpin & brace provides a similar level of stability as playing an ordinary DB standing. It's just that I find I can't replicate the stability of sitting with an ordinary DB, especially for arco work. I think something like the NS Design cello endpin would do the trick, but I don't know if it works on their EUBs;



Bilbo, I'm wondering how you approached the double bass with regard to stance (or seated position), height of the nut, etc, and if some improvement could be made there? Certainly, 15 minutes of playing on a double bass for someone not used to it is quite a long time.

Jennifer

Edited February 28, 2009 by endorka

[Bilbo]

I have no doubt that my posture was a part of the problem. I played standing and sitting withthe bass at different heights but the problems got the better of me and I gave up - ironically, had I still been where I was when this happened, I would have been over the road from Jakesbass and could have had lessons!

I may try again one day but I guess it is difficult to commit the money to a purchase when you have a nagging doubt that it may bite you on the a***!