Bilbo Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Diminished is less then or taken away, an augmented is more than or added A fifth in C is G A dimished fifth is one semi-tone below a fifth i.e. Gb/F sharp An augmented fifth is one semi tone above i.e. Gsharp/Ab An augmented fourth is one semi-tone above a fourth i.e. in C major, the fourth is F so the augmented fourth is F sharp. But you are running before you can walk, Sarah. Stick to basic scales for now and, when you have that sorted, the rest can follow. The basic major and minor chords will work for 90% of the music you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='Sarah5string' post='266868' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:08 AM']What's diminished and augmented? [/quote] right lets see if i get this correct. diminished and augmented are the equivalent to sharp and flat (major/minor) but only used on perfect intervals. perfect intervals are the first(unison), fourth, fifth and octave of the scale the others are major intervals which can be made minor intervals (dont think you can make a major interval a major major interval ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Yeah, I'd say just start with the blues scale and major pentatonic. For some of the metal and hard rock tunes you play though you might find that those two don't work. Then you need to work out which notes work for those songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='266881' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:18 AM']Stick to basic scales for now and, when you have that sorted, the rest can follow. The basic major and minor chords will work for 90% of the music you play.[/quote] +1 You can get away with using major and minor box shapes for lots of stuff (I do!). Get your guitarist to show you those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='dlloyd' post='266890' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:25 AM']That's where you will normally find them... but read on... I kind of hid it at the bottom, as I didn't want to throw too much at you at once. But, since you ask, yes you can. The way it would normally go is something like this: [b]Double augmented[/b] eg C to Ax, double augmented 6th [b]Augmented[/b] eg C to A#, augmented 6th [b]Major[/b] eg C to A, major 6th [b]Minor[/b] eg C to Ab, minor 6th [b]Diminished[/b] eg C to Abb, diminished 6th [b]Double diminished[/b] eg C to Abbb, double diminished 6th [b]Double augmented[/b] eg C to Gx, double augmented 5th [b]Augmented[/b] eg C to G#, augmented 5th [b]Perfect[/b] eg C to G, perfect 5th [b]Diminished[/b] eg C to Gb, diminished 5th [b]Double diminished[/b] eg C to Gbb, double diminished 5th Augmented/diminished 2nds, 3rds, 6ths, 7ths and their compound relatives (9ths, 10ths, etc) are unusual, and I suggest you don't worry about them right now. Double augmented/double diminished anything are also not too important. What defines the 'quantity' of the interval is the distance in 'letters' that the higher note is from the lower note. So D to F is a third of some variety, even if the context it is in is C major. So if you had a chromatic run which contained A#, A natural and Ab and wanted to relate them all to a lower D, you'd have an augmented 5th, perfect 5th and a diminished 5th.[/quote] waaah!! guess i asked for that so would a Gbb double diminished actually be an F? (Gb is also F#, so therefore a Gbb would be and F, 2 semitones/whole tone down) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='266902' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:38 AM']so would a Gbb double diminished actually be an F? (Gb is also F#, so therefore a Gbb would be and F, 2 semitones/whole tone down)[/quote] It would be the same note as an F, but harmonically speaking it would feel completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='266897' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:36 AM']Yeah, I'd say just start with the blues scale and major pentatonic. For some of the metal and hard rock tunes you play though you might find that those two don't work. Then you need to work out which notes work for those songs.[/quote] the bulk of the songs we play i work out by ear, i get bits from some tab which are normally 70% there but the rest are not usually available in tab and i find the notes to start on and the rest kind of fall into place, i guess that means i kind of know the scales just not in theoretical practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='266905' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:40 AM']It would be the same note as an F, but harmonically speaking it would feel completely different.[/quote] within the context of the scale it is used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='266911' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:42 AM']within the context of the scale it is used?[/quote] Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) A (slightly) simplistic way of looking at things is to say 'every scale has to have one of every note in it' So C major has C D E F G A B C So F major has F G A Bb C D E F - one note of each of the seven letters available. If you go to an F sharp major, however, you would get F sharp, G sharp, A sharp, B, C sharp, D sharp, E sharp, F. E sharp is enharmonically F but F is sharp. Its actually to do with the written score. If a key signature on a piece of music has six sharps (the key of F sharp) whenever an E appears on the score, you play F but whenever and F appears you play F sharp. So a Gb scale has a Gb, Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, E, F, Gb - the Cb is enharmonically a B but if the score has six flats, Gb major, you play Bs as Bb and Cs as B. Its actually not nearly as complicated as it reads Edited August 21, 2008 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='dlloyd' post='266928' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:55 AM']I'd say you have a fairly good understanding of basic theory... the difficult bit is in learning the names.[/quote] Yeah, I'd agree with that. For some people, learning theory is just putting names to things they already know, do and understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Bring on the trumpets! i think this is where i'm having problems, kinda like driving for years and picking up your own way of doing things and then trying to re apply the theory. bilbo i was kind of with you till the last bit, the Gb major bit but i guess if i saw the scale it would make sense. Trumpets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 looked at that and thought, eh? 4 flat sharps. but i think you ment 4 flat's (b's might have helped) any chance this can be made a sticky some where cos it has really helped me understand some of the basics and outline things i didnt quite get before. it is getting a little in depth now, which is no bad thing. sarah is this making more sense to you? if not just ask (not me though cos i'm still getting to grips with it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 kind of think this has gone alot further than sarah wanted, here is a site i had forgotten i had in my favourites which should be of use to you [url="http://www.studybass.com/"]http://www.studybass.com/[/url] covers alot of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 candles Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='Sarah5string' post='266270' date='Aug 20 2008, 01:16 PM']uh.... the B occasionally likes to be awkward and flat? hang on.. how do I do a Bb when I haven't got a Bb on my fretboard???[/quote] For everyones sake, please give up the bass!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='4 candles' post='267337' date='Aug 21 2008, 08:11 PM']For everyones sake, please give up the bass!!![/quote] Not cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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