ibanez K5

[barry44]

hi,

i am looking for advice from any owners of the above bass specifically regarding the vari mid controls.

Please PM to discuss.

Cheers,

Barry

[flychris]

maybe the same as SR series Ibanez ?
you could ask to SR owner ...

[Lfalex v1.1]

Whilst I haven't played a K5, I have owned an Ergodyne EDB600 (with fixed mid freq 3 band eq), and played a BTB with a vari-mid 3 band EQ.

I managed to wring some excellent sounds from the Ergodyne before I accidentally broke the body, and that was with a fixed Frequency mid.
The BTB only improved on the experience for me. In no time at all, I managed to dial in a tone which I liked, and had people in the shop commenting positively on the sound (rather than the playing!?)

To set variable mids (for me, and I like the bass to "sing" in the upper-mid registers) ,I centre all the controls (vol at max-ish), and crank the mid level right up, and work gently thorugh the frequency range from bottom to top. I then adjust the mid-level down to taste and tinker with the bass and treble to suit my taste. I then use the pick-up pan to voice the bass to suit me (often 60/40 bridge/neck) and away I go.
Amp stays FLAT and with all gubbins like copressors, pre-shapes etc. OFF, so I can hear what the bass is doing without too much contribution from the amp.

I reckon the K5 is oft overlooked because of its "metal" image.
Given that the vari-mid eq isn't just tailored to give a massive mid-cut like Fieldy's, it should prove fine.
The K5 has a nice body wood, and if Ibanez have stuck to their normal neck profile, it should prove eminently playable.
My only concerns?

Weight (not often an Ibanez issue!)
Mid-voicing of the EQ.

As ever... Try before you buy. If you can!

[barry44]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='255307' date='Aug 5 2008, 12:41 PM']Whilst I haven't played a K5, I have owned an Ergodyne EDB600 (with fixed mid freq 3 band eq), and played a BTB with a vari-mid 3 band EQ.

I managed to wring some excellent sounds from the Ergodyne before I accidentally broke the body, and that was with a fixed Frequency mid.
The BTB only improved on the experience for me. In no time at all, I managed to dial in a tone which I liked, and had people in the shop commenting positively on the sound (rather than the playing!?)

To set variable mids (for me, and I like the bass to "sing" in the upper-mid registers) ,I centre all the controls (vol at max-ish), and crank the mid level right up, and work gently thorugh the frequency range from bottom to top. I then adjust the mid-level down to taste and tinker with the bass and treble to suit my taste. I then use the pick-up pan to voice the bass to suit me (often 60/40 bridge/neck) and away I go.
Amp stays FLAT and with all gubbins like copressors, pre-shapes etc. OFF, so I can hear what the bass is doing without too much contribution from the amp.

I reckon the K5 is oft overlooked because of its "metal" image.
Given that the vari-mid eq isn't just tailored to give a massive mid-cut like Fieldy's, it should prove fine.
The K5 has a nice body wood, and if Ibanez have stuck to their normal neck profile, it should prove eminently playable.
My only concerns?

Weight (not often an Ibanez issue!)
Mid-voicing of the EQ.

As ever... Try before you buy. If you can![/quote]

thanks for the reply.

i think i need to have a play about with the mid control as you describe and see where i go from there.

my problem is that the A, D & G strings really do not seem to be outputting as much as the B & E. when the rest of the band are playing, i cannot hear myself on these strings.

the settings i use on the mid control, which sound great by myself, is the frequency, fully anti clock wise with boost on the level.

i wonder if i am boosting the lows, which is providing the B & E string to sound louder whilst cutting the mid and treble thus cutting the A, D & G.

however if such a concept defys the laws of physics then i welcome any advice.

the worst thing is that all reviews you read on the bass, if you get by the usual slating of fieldy, give high marks on the many tones from the bass so i reckon i must be doing something fundamentally wrong.

it is an absolute dream to play, however, the step from 4 to 5 has been pretty much seamless and a lot easier than i expected.

i may try and trade it for an SRX705 if i cannot get any joy...

cheers guys.

barry

[Lfalex v1.1]

The EQ [i]may[/i] be contributing to the seemingly weak G,D and A string outputs if you've knocked off loads of the Treble, dialled out a lot of the mids, and boosted the bottom end.

Normally, I'd have said to try adjusting the pick-ups, but you've stated that the bass sounds fine when played outside a band context, so I guess it's more of a case of the bass failing to cut through the rest of the band in the mid and treble frequency ranges...

If you're finding that it plays well, and has made the 4 to 5 string transition bearable for you, I really wouldn't sell or exchange it, at least until you've had a tinker with the EQ.

Perhaps when you next rehearse with the rest of the band, try setting everything on the amp and bass to flat, EQ-wise. See if you can dial in a completely different tone that you like and that you can hear in a band context...

Edit- I read your signature! I own an SRX700, too. One of my guitarist mates bought one too (without my knowledge!) We both tried the 705, and found it had lost something in the transition to a 5 string... I'd reckon the K5 would be fine. If you really, really can't get what you want from it, but still love the Ibanez approach, there's always the good old SR500! Excellent value and tons of good tones to be had from it.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Lfalex v1.1

[lowhand_mike]

i would have thought that you should be able to get the same tones out of your K5 as i can from my SR 500.
put you tone controls on their center dents and tweek it from there, cutting the mids completely will loose you in the mix. the K5 may be voiced slightly deeper than the SR 500 so you should be careful of the bass pot as it is quite strong. i like the natural sound of mine btu can tweek it to get loads of tones. feldy's tone is to loose the mid completely but he does tend to dissappear in the mix.
mids are your friend.

[Rayman]

Don't over cook the mid control Barry, it'll give you a great big thumping tone without much top end. I seem to remember having the mid rolled back just under the central indent, with every thing else on full, Try rolling the neck pup off a bit too.

[barry44]

thanks guys for all your posts.

i have got it sounding sweet in the house via a small practise amp.

i haven't been using my sansamp recently in the studio as they have bought in some nice ampeg heads and cabs.

however one room is smaller and therefore has a smaller head and cab, this is the room where i lose the bass.

i think by bringing this back into use may give me the sound i am looking for with the rest of the band, i hope.....

i hope that this does work as i am really enjoying playing this bass, i find the neck plays like a dream, giving that it is unfinished. it is so good, i am considering sanding down my other necks to the wood.

[geilerbass]

[quote name='barry44' post='259932' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:26 PM']thanks guys for all your posts.

i have got it sounding sweet in the house via a small practise amp.

i haven't been using my sansamp recently in the studio as they have bought in some nice ampeg heads and cabs.

however one room is smaller and therefore has a smaller head and cab, this is the room where i lose the bass.

i think by bringing this back into use may give me the sound i am looking for with the rest of the band, i hope.....

i hope that this does work as i am really enjoying playing this bass, i find the neck plays like a dream, giving that it is unfinished. it is so good, i am considering sanding down my other necks to the wood.[/quote]

Glad to hear you're getting some success - it's really a trial and error thing and different situations will often require different settings, dependant on the acoustics and set-up of the situation.

I'm a huge fan of Ibanez necks - the K5 does play amazingly, nearly as nicely as my SR20th . Seriously, the K5 is an awesome bass for the money. Do you have one of the older ones with the Padauk/Mahogany body or the newer one, with just Mahogany in the body?

[spree]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='256536' date='Aug 6 2008, 05:48 PM']i would have thought that you should be able to get the same tones out of your K5 as i can from my SR 500.
put you tone controls on their center dents and tweek it from there, cutting the mids completely will loose you in the mix. the K5 may be voiced slightly deeper than the SR 500 so you should be careful of the bass pot as it is quite strong. i like the natural sound of mine btu can tweek it to get loads of tones. feldy's tone is to loose the mid completely but he does tend to dissappear in the mix.
mids are your friend.[/quote]

i think the EQ in the SR500 is different to the system in the K5?


[quote name='geilerbass' post='259944' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:35 PM']Glad to hear you're getting some success - it's really a trial and error thing and different situations will often require different settings, dependant on the acoustics and set-up of the situation.

I'm a huge fan of Ibanez necks - the K5 does play amazingly, nearly as nicely as my SR20th . Seriously, the K5 is an awesome bass for the money. Do you have one of the older ones with the Padauk/Mahogany body or the newer one, with just Mahogany in the body?[/quote]

If its the bass previously owned by Rayman then the body is the Padauk/Mahogany sandwich, is the newer one really Mahogany alone? lordy

[barry44]

it is the Padauk/Mahogany sandwich and is the most luvverly bass i own, which makes this problem all the worse!!

yeah the new one is solid mahogany with a black stain and a maple/walnut neck, i much prefer the one i have, tis gorgeous!!

[spree]

[quote name='barry44' post='260029' date='Aug 11 2008, 03:09 PM']it is the Padauk/Mahogany sandwich and is the most luvverly bass i own, which makes this problem all the worse!!

yeah the new one is solid mahogany with a black stain and a maple/walnut neck, i much prefer the one i have, tis gorgeous!! [/quote]

gorgeous indeed

formerly mine gorgeous!!!

[geilerbass]

The Padauk/Mahogany sandwich is definitely nicer - basically the same as the SR1305, which Fieldy used to endorse before getting his signature model. I remember trying the older K5 shortly after it came out and being totaly blown away. The all-mahogany is still a great bass, but not quite there.

Apparently Fieldy was a fan of the vari-mid because he could totally remove the mid range frequencies from his sound - anyone who's paid attention to Korn's bass sound would have noticed that it is quite 'distinctive'.

Edited August 12, 2008 by geilerbass

[noisedude]

As others have said, if you scoop the mid out it will sound impressive at home but rubbish in a busy band. It works for him because Korn leave him lots of space in the mix for the boomy sound. For my favourite sound I'd boost the lower mids slightly but would experiment by boosting quite a bit and then rolling the frequency sweep to find what I liked, and then backing the boost off a bit to keep it fairly subtle.

I'm intrigued by these five-strings myself as I like the SR505 neck a lot.

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='spree' post='260014' date='Aug 11 2008, 02:55 PM']i think the EQ in the SR500 is different to the system in the K5?[/quote]

yes the eq is different but i did try a K5 when i was looking at the sr500 and at the time the sr 505 (though i played safe and stayed with a 4) and the K5 had a similar sound to that of the SR500, guess thats the mahogany and similar neck doing alot of that. though the sr has slightly warmer tones, less aggressive i guess. though whack up the treble and bass and scoop the mid and you're not far off feldy.

[barry44]

i had the k5 in the studio yesterday and made some progress on the sound.

i think the amp may have something to do with the sound but i am not 100% sure.

i unpadded the -15db and got closer to the sound i wanted but i still could not get the A, D & G cutting through the mix even with the treble boosted.

i played it through the sansamp, via the effects return of the amp, and got a little better but still the same problem with the higher notes, my bandmates said it sounded muddy, i don't disagree.

i swapped over to my SRX700 and on the same settings it pwned the mix!!!

i could hear everything across all the strings, perfection.

i have a new set of elixirs coming for the K5, so next sunday looks to be last chance saloon.

i am gutted that i cannot get on with this as it really is such a dream to play and i feel that the problems are with me not the bass!!!

[geilerbass]

[quote name='barry44' post='264331' date='Aug 18 2008, 08:19 AM']i had the k5 in the studio yesterday and made some progress on the sound.

i think the amp may have something to do with the sound but i am not 100% sure.

i unpadded the -15db and got closer to the sound i wanted but i still could not get the A, D & G cutting through the mix even with the treble boosted.

i played it through the sansamp, via the effects return of the amp, and got a little better but still the same problem with the higher notes, my bandmates said it sounded muddy, i don't disagree.

i swapped over to my SRX700 and on the same settings it pwned the mix!!!

i could hear everything across all the strings, perfection.

i have a new set of elixirs coming for the K5, so next sunday looks to be last chance saloon.

i am gutted that i cannot get on with this as it really is such a dream to play and i feel that the problems are with me not the bass!!![/quote]

Sorry to hear you're still struggling with the sound. Shame as I know how nice those older K5s play. As mentioned before, the SRX will have more bite and a slight growl as a result of the MM style pickups. If you can try and emulate this, maybe by adding a bit more drive from the Sansamp, you might get closer? At the end of the day, the SRX and K5 will sound different, so it may just be that the SRX has a sound more suited to the mix of your band.

I've had the same problem with my SR1016, that I use in a couple of metal bands. I've found that compression can go a long way to balancing things out.

[barry44]

guys, i have been doing some research on the vari mid control on the K5 and also where frequencies sit in the mix.

from my problems i think i need to boost the high mids, going towards the treble ranges along with the treble control.

i understand that the upper mids are generally between the 600Hz - 3 KHz range, which can be easily found on the varimid control as this tops out at 5KHz.

therefore by boosting this, i should be able to cut through the mix better?

i have downloaded the ibanez catalogue and attach the freq response curves for anyone who can help translate this for me.

my understanding is that the K5 mid fully boosted at 5KHz provides a 5dB boost, which from the attached, appears to be exactly the same boost as the treble control provides????

Can anyone decipher these curves for me to help me understand?

i am actually enjoying these problems as it is helping me understand my bass a lot better.

cheers,

Barry

[noisedude]

[quote name='barry44' post='264553' date='Aug 18 2008, 01:42 PM']guys, i have been doing some research on the vari mid control on the K5 and also where frequencies sit in the mix.

from my problems i think i need to boost the high mids, going towards the treble ranges along with the treble control.

i understand that the upper mids are generally between the 600Hz - 3 KHz range, which can be easily found on the varimid control as this tops out at 5KHz.

therefore by boosting this, i should be able to cut through the mix better?

i have downloaded the ibanez catalogue and attach the freq response curves for anyone who can help translate this for me.

my understanding is that the K5 mid fully boosted at 5KHz provides a 5dB boost, which from the attached, appears to be exactly the same boost as the treble control provides????

Can anyone decipher these curves for me to help me understand?

i am actually enjoying these problems as it is helping me understand my bass a lot better.

cheers,

Barry[/quote]
Don't do it with the graphs. Use your ears. In fact, go through the instructions I put earlier in the thread:
- Boost the mid all the way up
- Sweep it to find the sound you want easily. That will be in the higher end of the range by the sounds of it
- Back off the boost so you don't sound too hyped or un-natural (unless that's the sound you like)

Let us know how you find that.

[barry44]

cheers noisedude,

will try that next week, roll on sunday.

going to mess with it in the house between times

[barry44]

had a muck around with it, got it sounding again!!!

i think the treble control may be goosed, i do not notice the same boost cut as when i move the bass control.

either that or it is very subtle and i miss it!!

boosting the upper mids as directed by the chart also makes a very subtle difference, where the lower mids are very pronounced???

can anyone suggest anything?

i will need to get it into the local shop for them to have a once over.

will keep you all posted.

cheers,

barry

[lowhand_mike]

it may just be the way the K5 is voiced, as feldy likes the mid to be taken out completely so the treble and mid 'boost' may just be very minimal.
you could try blending in the bridge pickup more which will reduce the total low end, the bass boost sounds liek ti may be very strong ( i know it is on my SR500) so a little on that maybe even some cut there.
it could well be worth getting the pots checked as like you say they could be hosed but i would imagine its the voicing. if i get a chance i'll try and pop down to demark street (only just down the road from work) and see if they have one i can give a try of, that should clear up any of my somewhat hazy memories

[barry44]

mike,

you're an absolute gent.

[barry44]

i think the treble is just a small boost.

i had it through the sansamp with a lot of drive, when i boosted the treble i heard a fair amount of hiss, so i guess it must be boosting.

if the treble is such a small boost, which does tie in with the freq charts i attached on the other page, would you think i would be better replacing the pre amp with the equivalent from the SR series?

from the response curves, the SR pre amp appears to boost everything a whole lot more than the K5.

the K5 does appear to only have decent boost in the low and lowmids, with very little towards the highs.

Damn you Fieldy!!!!

would i be able to buy an SR preamp? all i can see from the ibanez site is the vari mid for the SR but passive only where the K5 is an active set, or does this actually matter as i thought all pups were passive?

[lowhand_mike]

the SR 500 has the bartolini MK1 pickups and pre amp, its active though i'm not sure if its just the pre thats active(it's a 9v system).
looking at the frequency curves the K5 has very limited mid adjustment where as the Sr500 has alot of adjustment and the bart pre and pups have a greater amount of boost and cut available to you. If you want to get near to the SR type of mids leave the mid frequency pot at center and boost from there. i'm guessing the K5 is voiced that way and as such limits you to a certain amount of tones. to be honest you would be better trading in the K5 for an SR505 if you want more flexibility, as the proportions are pretty much the same as should be the neck profiles main difference being the pickups and pre amp and woods.
the new sr's have at last got a decent battery box on them rather than the slightly annoying screw plate. but they have a jatoba/bubinga neck now rather than the wenge/bubinga neck on previous models (wenge is now an endangered species). the K5 has the Maple/Walnut neck which is going to give you a brighter sound anyway.

Edited August 18, 2008 by lowhand_mike