Intonation - any thoughts?

[Bilbo]

I have now been recording my gigs for a few months and am happy with my intonation when I am moving around the neck in a step-wise fashion (whole tones, semi-tones, thirds, fifths, fourths, octave etc) but when I do larger jumps (playing a tenth a n octave higher than an open string, for instance, or moving from a rooted Bb to a written phrase higher up the neck), the intontaion is in the hands of the Gods.

Any exercises anyone knows of to nail this? I can hear the notes and know how to make them right but, by then, its too late

[Hector]

Far be it from me to tell you, or anyone, anything about playing the bass, but I have personally found that the answer with anything technical is to do it very very slowly until it is done perfectly. Doing it faster then takes care of itself. Maybe you could try practicing your arpeggios in minims at 40bpm and really focus on the tuning and motion of your body?

With any big jump, it seems for me to be about a bit of preparation in my left arm - usually the shift comes from the shoulder, with my elbow preceding my hand slightly. In thumb position, it's about anticipation too but with a slightly different movement. My hand tends to bunch up, with the thumb coming upwards to meet my other fingers on the way before I have started the shift proper. It's only really by practicing at a glacial pace that any of this has become apparent to me and I've been able to micromanage my technique for specific weaknesses in my playing.

Another thing you could try is vomits?

Hope this is helpful. These larger shifts really start to open up the fingerboard.


EDIT - Another one is the "note finder" exercise. Take one note, say G and try to find every single instance of it in every place on your fingerboard.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Hector

[ubassman]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1375698239' post='2164328']
Far be it from me to tell you, or anyone, anything about playing the bass, but I have personally found that ....
[/quote]

( +1 on that sentiment !!) ...for me , I use the thumb position at the octave as a 'navigation point' like the D stop . I can pretty much throw that shape and land on the Octave G with my thumb in a good position every time. So if I wanted a minor 3rd octave above the G as a 10th interval I jump to the thumb octave with 3rd finger hitting the Bb in the closed thumb position or if its B natural with the 2nd in the open thumb position. I have to say that the smallest speck of tipex at the octave has been an absolute godsend as a visual check ( not that its good to look at the fingerboard but on a big leap like that I think that its forgiven !).

I found it really useful to experiment with the arm and hand weight working on big distances
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4zrgPwSji0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4zrgPwSji0[/url]

Haven't yet figured out how to do bigger leaps than from 1/2 position up to C above the octave G that but I have seen many a pencil mark, dot or other marking on many a professional players fingerboard ! Look forward to seeing any other posts to see how others do it !

[ubassman]

....oh there is an exercise that I haven't done in a long while which is to start on any root note , then hit the 2nd , then back to the root, then 3rd, root etc and simply keep going up the string making the intervals bigger and bigger . The trick I am told is to say / sing the note out loud that one is aiming for - its supposed to reinforce the fingers / muscles remembering whats where . Major scales first and then Minor etc ...off to give that one a whirl !

[MandShef]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1375715040' post='2164637']
....oh there is an exercise that I haven't done in a long while which is to start on any root note , then hit the 2nd , then back to the root, then 3rd, root etc and simply keep going up the string making the intervals bigger and bigger . The trick I am told is to say / sing the note out loud that one is aiming for - its supposed to reinforce the fingers / muscles remembering whats where . Major scales first and then Minor etc ...off to give that one a whirl !
[/quote]
This is like the sliding shifts exercise I've done before, but using the same finger (e.g. just using 1st finger) and not taking it off the strings (so in effect making a gliss sound). Really helps you to hear properly when you've hit the right note, plus develops muscle memory of shifting smoothly close to the strings rather having your hand leaping about (if that makes sense?).

[FLoydElgar]

Duncan Mctier's daily exercises! Not for the faint students ^^

[ubassman]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1375723239' post='2164784']
Duncan Mctier's daily exercises! Not for the faint students ^^
[/quote]

Hope those arrows aren't pointing at anyone !! Duncan McTiers dailies are great but I think will only help indirectly with making big leaps up the fingerboard? ( there aren't any large interval exercises there but some excellent ones for developing accuracy by 'climbing' the fingerboard ).

[ubassman]

[quote name='MandShef' timestamp='1375722621' post='2164776']
This is like the sliding shifts exercise I've done before, but using the same finger (e.g. just using 1st finger) and not taking it off the strings (so in effect making a gliss sound). Really helps you to hear properly when you've hit the right note, plus develops muscle memory of shifting smoothly close to the strings rather having your hand leaping about (if that makes sense?).
[/quote]

+1 on that Mand - good observation

[Hector]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1375715040' post='2164637']
....oh there is an exercise that I haven't done in a long while which is to start on any root note , then hit the 2nd , then back to the root, then 3rd, root etc and simply keep going up the string making the intervals bigger and bigger . The trick I am told is to say / sing the note out loud that one is aiming for - its supposed to reinforce the fingers / muscles remembering whats where . Major scales first and then Minor etc ...off to give that one a whirl !
[/quote]

This is just the same as vomits isn't it? In the famous Dimoff warmup package: [url="http://doublebassblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/max-dimoff-warmups.pdf"]http://doublebassblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/max-dimoff-warmups.pdf[/url] There are all those finger combinations to practise too, quite the exercise if you do it for all those scales!

[FLoydElgar]

Haha, it was a face ( ^.^ or ^^)

[ubassman]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1375731800' post='2164966']
This is just the same as vomits isn't it? In the famous Dimoff warmup package: [url="http://doublebassblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/max-dimoff-warmups.pdf"]http://doublebassblo...off-warmups.pdf[/url] There are all those finger combinations to practise too, quite the exercise if you do it for all those scales!
[/quote]


....im feeling sick

[FLoydElgar]

I do vomits all the time!

[ubassman]

....even when its not even Friday night ? !!

[timbo1978]

This is a good exercise using chord drones - there are I think 7 different videos covering major, minor, 7th etc with downloadable drones to play along with.

http://effortlessintonation.becomeabassist.com/

[FLoydElgar]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1375727797' post='2164862']
Duncan McTiers dailies are great but I think will only help indirectly with making big leaps up the fingerboard? ( there aren't any large interval exercises there but some excellent ones for developing accuracy by 'climbing' the fingerboard ).
[/quote]

I wouldn't rush such a thing if you want great results! Reason why I said Duncan's exercises... Is because assuming one isn't too familiar with the rosin end of the bass! This would facilitate the hand with correct shape and all etc... So when you come across the vomits or those types of various exercises your hand goes into position as you have practiced it previously! Instead of "finding the note" and praying to the high gods for a miracle lol!

Vanhal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-bNf6h0tI&list=TLlTPlB3yTy1k

[Hector]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1375794268' post='2165656']
I wouldn't rush such a thing if you want great results! Reason why I said Duncan's exercises... Is because assuming one isn't too familiar with the rosin end of the bass! This would facilitate the hand with correct shape and all etc... So when you come across the vomits or those types of various exercises your hand goes into position as you have practiced it previously! Instead of "finding the note" and praying to the high gods for a miracle lol!
[/quote]

I'm completely on board with this idea. I didn't mention it as I thought the suggestion would be wildly unpopular and Bilbo mentioned he was fine in position, but part of what helped me improve my shifting was slogging through the simandl books and playing each position across the strings as in tune as possible. Then I know how the position feels under the hand.

I guess it's a two-part problem: getting to the position in the first place (by playing into it through step or a jump, or simply finding it from the get go) and then having the proper hand shape in that position.

[ubassman]

Id give my right arm to have a left hand like Rinat's !

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1375807795' post='2165986']
Id give my right arm to have a left hand like Rinat's !
[/quote]

Forget (if you can) the left hand, I'd trade right hands any day!

Steve

[FLoydElgar]

SCALES, SCALES, SCALES, SCALES, SCALES3 OCTAVE SCALES, 3 OCTAVE SCALES... ad infinitum...

[ubassman]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1375824611' post='2166286']


Forget (if you can) the left hand, I'd trade right hands any day!

Steve
[/quote]

Sounds like a plan for a good double act!

[Rabbie]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1375883689' post='2166893']
SCALES, SCALES, SCALES, SCALES, SCALES3 OCTAVE SCALES, 3 OCTAVE SCALES... ad infinitum...
[/quote]
+ 1 and arpeggios....and a bit of luck on the night...sometimes you nail it and sometimes you don't.