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Jazz bass... in series?


MiltyG565
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So yeah, i've just got my OLP (Which shall be known as a MiltyMan from now on) all wired up and screwed together. So since my jazz bass was sitting in several bits already, i decided while i was at it, i'll stick some new pots on (500k CTS, instead of the 250k unbranded ones that came with it)... and then i also decided to wire it in series.

It's wired and all. But the pot change was awkward, more on that in a little minute. Have any of you ever wired you jazz bass in series? what do you think?

Oh sh*t, i just thought... one of the pickups is reverse wound, isn't it? will that affect things?

Anyway, the pots. It turns out that the control plate had mini pots (GRRR)... and the pots that i had were regular sized ones. Ah well, they should still fit in the cavity. So i tore on. Took off the old volume pots, wire the - and + together, put the new pots on and... they didn't fit in the holes of the original pots. I drilled them out. Top job. Screwed the pots in, and once again, the control knobs didn't fit!

Why do you do this to me, God, why!?

Anyway, here's what i'm thinking now- since the control plate is all scratched up anyway, i want to put a black one on. Not just black... MATTE black B)

And of course that then means that ALL the hardware has to be matte black (including the pick guard), so now this has gone from a simple upgrade, to a full blown project. I should also be getting another neck for it soon.

This bass will be the epitome of cool when it's done, just wait :D

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Pickups are never 'reverse wound'. They just use opposite ends of the coil as the hot wire. The pickups are actually probably out of phase now, in that the magnet poles are the same way up. Both north up for instance. Get a compass and check the polarity. The pickups need to have opposite polarity. One north up and the other south up.

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[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360452206' post='1970807']
Pickups are never 'reverse wound'. They just use opposite ends of the coil as the hot wire. The pickups are actually probably out of phase now, in that the magnet poles are the same way up. Both north up for instance. Get a compass and check the polarity. The pickups need to have opposite polarity. One north up and the other south up.
[/quote]

Ah right, cheers for that! Is there any way to correct the polarity, like switching what lead i have connected to the first pickup?

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[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360452586' post='1970814']
Turn the pickup upside down? :) They may be alright anyway. If they sound alright then that's all that matters.
[/quote]

But being out of phase would just mean they sound slightly out of phase? it sounded like that already.

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It's really noticeable when pickups are out of phase - usually two pickups in parallel and in phase will thin out and scoop the mids a little, but out of phase is a whole lot quieter with almost no low end. The simplest way to tell is to reverse the two wires from one pickup; one way round will be much louder and better sounding and this is when they are in phase. Pairs of Jazz pickups usually have opposite magnetic polarity and one coil reverse wired so that they will cancel hum but still have the output in phase. This works in both series and parallel.
Regarding using series wiring on with Jazz pickups, I had a switch on mine to put the pickups in series and I found I never used it. Some people say the sound resembles a Precision, but to me it was just a bit thicker and sort of indistinct sounding, but still with the character of a Jazz bass in the highs.

Edited by Beer of the Bass
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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1360529415' post='1971931']
It's really noticeable when pickups are out of phase - usually two pickups in parallel and in phase will thin out and scoop the mids a little, but out of phase is a whole lot quieter with almost no low end. The simplest way to tell is to reverse the two wires from one pickup; one way round will be much louder and better sounding and this is when they are in phase. Pairs of Jazz pickups usually have opposite magnetic polarity and one coil reverse wired so that they will cancel hum but still have the output in phase. This works in both series and parallel.
Regarding using series wiring on with Jazz pickups, I had a switch on mine to put the pickups in series and I found I never used it. Some people say the sound resembles a Precision, but to me it was just a bit thicker and sort of indistinct sounding, but still with the character of a Jazz bass in the highs.
[/quote]

A switch could be a good idea actually. And that would leave it that you still had independent volume controls in parallel?

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I wired mine like this with a push-pull pot, but you could also substitute a DPDT mini toggle for the switch:
[url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jass_bass_sp"]http://www.seymourdu...ic=jass_bass_sp[/url]
In series mode there is just one volume control for both pickups, plus the master tone. In parallel it's a normal Jazz with independent volumes.

Edited by Beer of the Bass
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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1360531710' post='1971995']
I wired mine like this with a push-pull pot, but you could also substitute a DPDT mini toggle for the switch:
[url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jass_bass_sp"]http://www.seymourdu...ic=jass_bass_sp[/url]
In series mode there is just one volume control for both pickups, plus the master tone. In parallel it's a normal Jazz with independent volumes.
[/quote]

That's great! Yes, i don't mind it having a single volume control in series. I might actually get other parts first, then get my dad to make me a new control plate, then i'll wire it all up! I want the parts to be matte black.

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I've got this on my main Jazz, Fender did it for a while (its called an S-1 switch) it's definitely better as an option as opposed to a permanent thing, it makes the bass a bit louder, a bit fuller but a bit darker sounding - no fizzy top end if you know what I mean. But it comes in handy when you want a small level boost, or if you want to make your Jazz sound like a Precision :)

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Did the same on a Squier Jazz using a push-pull pot. As above, you'll find the output is a lot hotter and darker, but I personally didn't think it sounded very much like a precision. The series wiring didn't really give me the thick mids I associate with a precision sound. That being said, I was only using the stock Squier pickups that leave something to be desired, so your experience might be different.

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[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360604035' post='1973193']
You'll never make a jazz sound like a precision, of that I'm certain. The bridge pup has a sound of it's own and there's twice as many magnets and twice as much coil.
Actually no, there is nearly 4x the amount of coil.
[/quote]

I would imagine the pickup locations are also a factor in this. The two separate pickups would mean you're picking up two distinct areas of string vibration, neither of which matches the precision pickup 'sweet spot'.

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Yes, as i'm sure most of you will agree, a jazz can sound... thin, especially with the lack of mids in there. You can get alot of bit from the bridge, and alot of thump from the mid pickup, but it just always seems to have the one flat response through the mids then either treble or bass either end of it.

I want the mids that being in series should bring. I had another idea to make a jazz body, but put a MM pickup between the standard single coil pickups. MM in series, single coils in para/series switchable?

Let's go further. How about stacked single coils, so they are also hum buckers in there own right? Wow, i really need mental help :(

Having this much time on your hands isn't good for the wallet :(

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[quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1360607296' post='1973291']
I would imagine the pickup locations are also a factor in this. The two separate pickups would mean you're picking up two distinct areas of string vibration, neither of which matches the precision pickup 'sweet spot'.
[/quote]
I think the "sweet spot" thing is a bit of a myth to be honest, the sweet spot changes when you fret a note as you shorten the string length.

OK if you put Jazz pickups in series next to a Precision its not going to sound exactly the same. But the sound of the two jazz pickups in series is MORE Precision like than in parallel. More mids, more thump, less brightness. I was trying to describe the sound using references that anybody can relate to. If you want your Jazz bass to sound exactly like a Precision, then swap the neck pickup for a P unit. But I do get quite a Precisiony sound from mine (70s spacing and quite middly custom wound pickups though).

Milty, I think that the benefits you will reep from adding a MM pickup in between the two jazz pickups are outweighed by the cost and hassle of doing it. I think you'll get roughly the same sort of sound by blending the two Jazz pickups, turning your preamp up and EQing a little. But thats just my opinion, don't let me put you off experimenting!

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[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1360677878' post='1974416']
Milty, I think that the benefits you will reep from adding a MM pickup in between the two jazz pickups are outweighed by the cost and hassle of doing it. I think you'll get roughly the same sort of sound by blending the two Jazz pickups, turning your preamp up and EQing a little. But thats just my opinion, don't let me put you off experimenting!
[/quote]

Really? There is no preamp.

I was thinking of sorting thing bass, then building another Jazz from scratch with the MM pickup. Maybe even back mounted pots... now i'm really excited!

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[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1360677878' post='1974416']
I think the "sweet spot" thing is a bit of a myth to be honest, the sweet spot changes when you fret a note as you shorten the string length.
[/quote]

I know the whole 'sweet spot' idea is contentious at best - I simply meant that pickup location has a [i]huge[/i] impact on tone. The Jazz neck pickup isn't quite in the same location as the traditional Precision pickup, so you're never going to get quite the same sound out of them.

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[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360604035' post='1973193']
You'll never make a jazz sound like a precision, of that I'm certain. The bridge pup has a sound of it's own and there's twice as many magnets and twice as much coil.
Actually no, there is nearly 4x the amount of coil.
[/quote]

I reckon I'm close - I've got a MM in the bridge position and a Jazz neck PUP. I use a volume, blend, tone configuration on the control plate and if I blend 70/30 in favour of the Neck, and then use the canny little 'phase reverse' switch on the neck pup then it's Precision-tastic!

Isa little bit on onboard EQ considered cheating? ;)

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