Bending back my left thumb

[queenofthedepths]

Lately I've noticed that my left thumb has been bent back quite far on itself behind the neck - I was just wondering if that's bad for my thumb because sometimes it hurts a bit... or do I just need to be tough and ignore it? I don't usually feel it at all but once I get a fair few fingers down on the fretboard, it starts to push back
By the way I've probably been doing this for years and not really had a problem - this isn't something that's just come up, but I was wondering if I've been doing myself damage and if so, what should I do to stop?

[queenofthedepths]

No idea, anyone?

[The Funk]

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='180507' date='Apr 19 2008, 02:42 PM']I was just wondering if that's bad for my thumb because sometimes it hurts a bit...[/quote]

If it hurts a bit it probably won't do any long-term harm if it's a one-off. But assuming you play bass often and for extended periods of time, you could be doing yourself some harm, yes.

Try to get your wrist straighter so that your thumb is more upright - and try to not to press so hard with the thumb.

Edited April 23, 2008 by The Funk

[mcgraham]

I'm not sure if this is due to too much pressure, perhaps combined with hitchhikers thumb, however I would suggest lightening up considerably either way.

I once read an article years ago that said you should be able to play without having your thumb pushing on the back of the neck, if you can't then you are pressing too hard. That has served me well. Try taking your thumb off and seeing how much pressure you [i]actually[/i] need to be exerting to fret notes.

Mark

[jakenewmanbass]

I'm assuming that you are applying pressure to the neck by squeezing slightly,
consider the following...

Try to think of your arm as a weight, with hooks at the end (your curled fingers)
Hook your left hand fingers (together or singly) onto an edge above waist height (ideally shoulder height) eg mantlepiece, bookcase...
Relax your arm to the point where the weight in your arm can be felt.
Now relax it some more,
Now relax it some more,
Now relax it some more,
Now relax it some more,

Thats nearly enough!
Learn what the weight feels like, become [i]familiar[/i] with its feel.
Once you are comfortable and confident that you have a proper awareness of the weight in your arm, then try to take that concept and apply it to pulling gently (with the weight only) against the fretboard, with your hooks (fingers)
If you get it right you should find that with the adjustment to approach physical and mental, that you can fret notes with your thumb having little or no contact with the back of the neck.
The benefits of this are twofold:
There is no 'gripping', which [i]can[/i] serve (not always) as a slowing factor in muscle movement as it involves tension and release (muscles tire under this action)
Due to the above, there is increased independence and freedom in the movement of the fingers as they are using a natural attribute (the weight) rather than a muscle action (gripping) to perform their tasks.
I have been as comprehensive and clear as I can muster with this, but to be honest it's a process that you need to be coached through (I was by an URB tutor)
Feel free to ask about specifics if you are in any doubt about what I mean.
Jake

PS
It's taken from a violin technique concept, where if you think about how their left hand is on the fingerboard, they can literally 'hang' their hand off the board. Even though the fretboard of a BG is rotated through 90 degrees you can simulate the hanging, but directionally back through the neck as it were.

PSS
This should/could solve any muscle strain/pressure strain ailments too.

Edited April 23, 2008 by jakesbass

[Higgie]

I've been experimenting trying to fret notes without having my thumb on the back of the neck. It feels weird to say the least

On another note, my left thumb actually bends backwards 90 degrees at the middle joint (not the joint where your thumb meets your hand). It's completely painless, so I don't even really know it's happening when I play.

[mcgraham]

[quote]my left thumb actually bends backwards 90 degrees at the middle joint[/quote]

That sounds like hitchhiker's thumb, just a very extreme version of it. If that is the way your body works, then that is the way your body works. But just be aware that if it naturally takes that position, you'll need to be a bit more careful to ensure you aren't putting excessive strain on it, as it is already in a position that would result in excessive strain on the thumb joint.

I'm not sure if that has been explained particularly clearly, but in my (non-medical) opinion you need to lighten up your grip or adjust your grip as you run more of a risk of damaging your thumb than most due to the natural position it takes.

Mark

P.S. Just had a thought, if you bring the bass in closer to your body i.e. so that the neck+body is parallel to the front of your body (or at least more so than the typical 45 degree angle), you won't have your arm sticking out perpendicularly from the back of the neck, it'll drop lower. That should hopefully straighten your thumb out and help reduce strain, and keep your thumb relaxed.

[burray]

[quote name='Higgie' post='183649' date='Apr 23 2008, 11:46 AM']On another note, my left thumb actually bends backwards 90 degrees at the middle joint (not the joint where your thumb meets your hand). It's completely painless, so I don't even really know it's happening when I play.[/quote]

Same here. I never realised how useful it is until I actually stopped and thought about the fact that other people can't do it. Ha.

It's good for putting thumb takes in notice boards and watching the faces of people around you turning to disgust.

[mcgraham]

I remember learning about such genes in high school. Was that the hyperextending thumb? Supposedly it's a dominant gene, but it's rare to see such extreme thumb hyperextension. Mine only slightly hyperextends, such that it doesn't have the weird look of a deadstraight thumb.

Mark

[burray]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='183862' date='Apr 23 2008, 02:56 PM']Supposedly it's a dominant gene.[/quote]

I think you'll find it's an awesome gene.

Mine does this, only a little bit more...



And no, funnily enough that's not me.

[queenofthedepths]

Thanks for the advice, guys! I think I've sorted this out now, although I shall have to watch myself whenever I'm playing to make sure the habit doesn't come back... now that I come to think about it, it's really strange I should have that habit, considering I play violin, piano and 7-string bass (and if it counts for anything, prillar horn), none of which call for me to bend my thumb back - it seems to be an entirely 4-string bass thing

[mcgraham]

The electric bass is a very young instrument, and it borrows physical features from at least two camps, being guitar and upright bass, so there are still opposing camps as to how to *correctly* do things.

Look at Michael Manring, his bass is pretty at a 45 degree angle to his body (from above), right arm 'birdwinged' over the bass, thumb anchored, and left arm is pretty much dead perpendicular out from the back of the neck and upper arm held high. The left arm helps significantly for spacing your fingers for intonation on fretless, but it is so tiring for extended periods; that is at least in comparison to Gary Willis, who brings his bass in parallel to his body ala classical guitar pose (standing too), right wrist unbent, thumb floating, left arm relaxed and hung low.

I find the latter to be much more comfortable for extended periods, ergonomic and generally helps you with your technique, although it feels less natural to start with.

Mark

P.S. But Gary Willis RH technique is just plain [i]weird[/i]!

Edited April 23, 2008 by mcgraham