I want to clear this up once and for all

[51m0n]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='950690' date='Sep 9 2010, 03:07 PM']James Jameson used to DI his bass straight to the desk and we all know what a sterile sound that is.[/quote]

To be fair that would have been an all tube desk and they were known to push the desk into overdirve, hardly the same as DIing into a tranny/digital front of house rig!

[51m0n]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='950690' date='Sep 9 2010, 03:07 PM']It is not a myth that it is more covenants and there is less to go wrong. Mic; ing is easier to mix depends on many variables including if the stage is hollow and the room acoustic and the actual tone of the cab.
It is harder to but back something that’s been taken out so if the sound is muffled, has no mids or the player is compensating for a bright room then you are scrweed so I would always use a di as back up[/quote]

Close mic'ed (ie a few inches from the driver) the ratio of room to direct signal is so low as to be all but irrelevant.

How is DIing more convenient, there are more leads involved, same number of devices and so more things to go wrong with a DI than a mic.

The bassist may love what has been taken out by the cab though!

Does that make him immediately wrong, and mean he has no understanding of his tone?

So why would you insist on putting it back?

Edited September 9, 2010 by 51m0n

[PapillonIrl]

+1 to the idea that mic'ing the cab usually sounds better unless there we are talking about crappy cabinets/mics compared to expensive Di boxes/preamps/compressors.

other mics that I have used for bass cabs to good effect live, (in addition to the Heil mic mentioned, which i have heard is very good)

Shure SM7
Sennheiser 421
EV RE20
Beyer Soundstar Mk II

[ironside1966]

Hiya Mate

When you walk into the venue and meet the sound man he may not now you from Adam you may be a great guy with a great sound or you may not I don’t make assumptions but try to prepare for all eventualities.
I would need a reason to mic a cab, a SVT on full on rawk overdrive has a distinctive sound as you rightly point out that will be imposable to get with a DI so mic,ing up is the right thing to do but the majority of players have a prity much run of the mill clean sound. Would you suffer because you had to use someone else’s rig so long as it was fit for purpose most people wouldn’t
“Close mic'ed (ie a few inches from the driver) the ratio of room to direct signal is so low as to be all but irrelevant.”
One problem with mic’ing a cab is the vibrations from the stage and remember even hypercardioid can pick from the back so they are prone to picking LF wave of the back wall.
“How is DIing more convenient, there are more leads involved, same number of devices and so more things to go wrong with a DI than a mic”
You are more reliant on the player getting the sound right, how often do you hear players with the mid cut so much that you can’t tell a note they play? Players get a sound that’s fine for their acoustic space but may not be right front of house.
Mics can move and a couple of cm can make all the difference, musicians kick then when they are fiddling with their amps knock them over when they are P***ed or performing.
Often sound check time is limited so t 10 minutes moving a mic around maybe the time I could have had getting the monitors right.
So the simple answer it works well and there is less to go wrong if the amp settings are changed half way through then it is not the end of the world and knob head proof.
“The bassist may love what has been taken out by the cab though!

Does that make him immediately wrong, and mean he has no understanding of his tone?

So why would you insist on putting it back?”
No but IF I need to fix it I can
“In the case where you DI the bass, do you find you like to compress the signal after the fact. Had you ever thought that if you mic the cab, that cab may inherently be compressing that signal (to a certain extent), since a transducer must be slower than an electrical impulse. Just a thought again...”
That is true and that’s often why condensers make good drum and guitar mics but live especially when you use a comp anyway subtleties get lost.
“”How many of those 200 to 250 gigs a year did you have the bassist come out to where you were doing sound to hear the FOH? I'd better the bigger the gig the less likely it is to happen (its nigh on impossible to for a start - wireless or no wireless).

So they may be happy with how things went, but the player doesnt really know what he sounds like FOH, and they accept that as how its going to be (so they should mate, I've done plenty of FOH too - who do they think they are worrying about the bass sound eh ). So how can you say they love what you did to their sound? They may love the experience, it may have all gone swimmingly, but unless they are in the audience they have no real idea how they sound FOH, its all about trust, making them feel comfortable etc etc””
There is a high level of trust pro musicians are used to working with pro engineers so they know it will be ok. We are a unit with one goal to make the band sound good. If there is a problem or they are not happy they will let you know TBH I have no objections to any one messing with my sound if it’s for the good of the band and I feel comfortable on stage and I suspect a lot of people are the same. The reason I know it was ok is because I worked regular there are many engineers out there who would work for less than my fee just as good if not better.

Edited September 9, 2010 by ironside1966