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My favourite Jaco album is actually Joni Mitchell's Hejira... Jaco's playing on that is superb and I reckon enhanced by the fact the album is centered around Joni's songs rather than his playing. If you haven't heard it, it's worth a listen. The way Jaco drives the opening track is dynamic. Just noticed wombatboter referenced Refuge Of The Roads in the post above - that's the final track on Hejira. Coyote is the opener. ficelles

Free to a good home: Speedtouch USB broadband modem Soundbus USB soundcard Both working [attachment=82051:speedtouch.jpg] [attachment=82052:soundbus.jpg]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1260667' date='Jun 8 2011, 07:33 AM']Any pics of this strap? [/quote] Here ya go... I think it might be headed for fleabay now I know it's collectable though. Kicking myself for having trimmed the narrow end a few years back... ficelles [attachment=82047:mmstrap1.jpg] [attachment=82048:mmstrap2.jpg] [attachment=82049:mmstrap3.jpg] [attachment=82050:mmstrap4.jpg]

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='1260623' date='Jun 8 2011, 01:47 AM']Any chance of an email from MM confirming that it's genuine? [/quote] No, but I have a photo of Elvis using it at Woodstock... ficelles

[quote name='mcnach' post='1260598' date='Jun 8 2011, 01:01 AM']just get the bass to match it! [/quote] I'm fine with my uprights and my Jazz defret thanks. [quote name='mcnach' post='1260598' date='Jun 8 2011, 01:01 AM']actually, I saw recently selling some of those straps for nearly £100 crazy...[/quote] £100 for an old strap? I am fascinated as to why MM gear has this kind of attraction, would an old Fender strap go for that much? ficelles

Now this is an amusing diversion, I've just realised that the old 3" leather strap I have had kicking around since the late 70s / early 80s is a Music Man strap, logo a little worn but still clearly visible. Narrow section (threaded though the wider section at one end) has been trimmed a couple of inches I am afraid. If any of you MM nuts wants it I'll swap it for another usable strap. ficelles

[quote name='mcnach' post='1260206' date='Jun 7 2011, 08:19 PM']I very much doubt you'd approach anyone in person that way.[/quote] Actually I would. I am almost entirely without fear and have an over-developed sense of justice. Of course I do get my ass kicked quite regularly. ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1260296' date='Jun 7 2011, 09:18 PM']There is nothing right about it and after speaking via eBay again to the seller it appears he now agrees and is going to look at re wording it later. The fact someone from Germany is interested worries me, Surely they are reading it as a pukka neck as cheap ray copies must be available easy enough over there?[/quote] I've suggested to Martin that he doesn't ship it to Germany unless he's prepared for it to be sent back. But to clarify - there [u]is[/u] an email from EBMM saying they think the neck looks genuine (I haven't read it so I don't know the exact wording). But it's also clear to me - because actually I do believe the Captain Stingrays in here especially having done some research myself - that they have made a bad call based on insufficient information. ficelles

[quote name='Jazzneck' post='1260168' date='Jun 7 2011, 07:51 PM']Please explain - is that a statement, exclamation or a question?[/quote] I'm really not sure, I think maybe I just felt like saying "truss rod" earlier on. Or perhaps it was my evil twin. I don't remember posting that. ficelles

[quote name='Jazzneck' post='1260135' date='Jun 7 2011, 07:34 PM']Here's a real 1982 Stingray with a rosewood board - I'll let the experts decide. M.[/quote] Truss rod. ficelles

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1260152' date='Jun 7 2011, 07:42 PM']I can't see how that will help your cause and I can't see how anyone who has posted on this thread will be at all nervous if you did - I'm sure you'd be barking up the wrong tree.[/quote] I don't have a cause - I just have a friend who has been ripped off on eBay and is now being maligned in here. Personally I think my friend should pull the listing, but then if Captain Stingray gets eBay to pull it my friend will at least get his fees refunded. But I also think identifying the original seller will help future buyers. ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1260078' date='Jun 7 2011, 06:47 PM']Maybe if you tried a REAL one one day you might like it but as you appear to have only played maybe a Tanglewood with a £2.99 logo stuck to it as only a moron could miss all the points I have listed for you if he had ever even seen a real one No need to diss something just because your mate got done for £360 on a pile of sh*t is there?[/quote] Actually I have tried several real ones and they just don't "do it" for me. Nothing wrong with them but nothing earth-shatteringly great about them either imho. As for not knowing a REAL one, well not being an obsessive I imagine I would be easy to fool although I am generally very wary of anything vintage with a bolt-on neck as it is so laughably easy to mock almost anything up from Allparts or wherever. Anyway you are being really rather unpleasant about someone getting ripped off in this way, maybe you think it's funny? I think it would be an idea to see if Martin can identify Seller: Member ID stig999000 so their name and address can be published in here. I wonder if that is making anyone nervous... ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1260058' date='Jun 7 2011, 06:32 PM']None it was a different company sold in 1984 and you call me a moron! Just tell him to change it or pull it mate what cant you accept? Do you really think that neck has a glimmer of hope from an email against all the points I have given you? You really are messing with the wrong guy if you want to start going down the route of the transition Ray era too [/quote] Well I just looked it up on Wikipedia, which says "After looking at a few offers Music Man was sold to Ernie Ball on March 7, 1984."... so what company do you think was sold in '84? Anyway like I have repeatedly said, I have never owned a MM (EB or otherwise), don't like how they look, am not interested in their history, and outside of a sense of fair play re a friend being falsely maligned in here couldn't give a rats about MM products. ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1260041' date='Jun 7 2011, 06:23 PM'][b]This lifted from the advert still reads as the neck being real as far as the seller can tell attached to a copy body, Call me a moron if you like but thats how it reads.[/b][/quote] That is because the seller genuinely believes, based on what EBMM told him, that the neck is real. I know that's quite a difficult concept to grasp but stick at and and you'll get it. Anyway I am seeing the man in question in a couple of hours and I'm going to suggest he pulls the listing... ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1259989' date='Jun 7 2011, 05:48 PM']Self styled expert or not its totally fake so get the words "appears to be [b]kosher" [/b]out of the listing or remove it end of arguement mate [/quote] You seem to think the listing is mine - it isn't. I don't need no steenking MusicMan, kosher or otherwise. [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1259989' date='Jun 7 2011, 05:48 PM']There is no way EBMM have said that its kosher what they may of said is "we dont know it could be but we didnt make and have no records for pre EB goods" I dare say even the girl in the office at EBMM could tell you why its not right though.[/quote] All this comes down to EBMM making a statement that you seem to insist they didn't. How do you know they didn't? Do you have their office bugged? Do you monitor their emails? Anyway I am wondering how many staff are left at EBMM who were there 27 years ago and what might have come out of old stock/new ownership in the first few months... [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1259989' date='Jun 7 2011, 05:48 PM'][b]FYI all of the points I have listed can be confirmed by me by looking at the basses in this room right now and as a self styled expert (Should that go In my sig or not?) I feel im in a pretty good position to comment having every version right here right now?[/b][/quote] I don't think self-styled expert is quite it... if you have every possible version of every Stingray then I think the phrase "obsessive hoarder" may be nearer the mark! ficelles

[quote name='Johnston' post='1259886' date='Jun 7 2011, 04:31 PM']He has said MM has said it's okay but surely Musicman no longer exist and it would be Ernie Ball he would have to contact.[/quote] Indeed - for MM read EBMM. [quote name='Johnston' post='1259886' date='Jun 7 2011, 04:31 PM']If I'm following the same link. The pictures show a skunk strip on the neck.[/quote] Yeah I noticed that just after I posted. Looking at other examples online the heel on Martin's doesn't look quite right, could maybe just be that the fitting into the (undeniably copy) body is different though. Seems like the only way it could be genuine is if it's an EBMM neck with a pre-EB logo. Either way I bet he wishes he'd never bought it... ficelles

[quote name='dc2009' post='1259877' date='Jun 7 2011, 04:18 PM']Exactly. As I said above, it's not hard to put a print screen up for the sake of a few hundred quid.[/quote] Has anyone asked Martin or are you just asking me? I don't have the email (I'm assuming it was an email), and while I'm happy to defend a friend in here as he doesn't read forums to my knowledge I'm not running around gathering evidence... if you want to see it, contact him through fleabay and ask if he's got a written response from MM and can add it to the listing. ficelles

[quote name='bremen' post='1259809' date='Jun 7 2011, 03:32 PM']Whether or not the neck is kosher, the bass can't be described as a MM therefore JLP's defence against a libel charge is watertight.[/quote] Not really, since M has openly stated that it's a copy body with a neck that MM have said is ok. It's not described as MM, but as a copy with an MM (probably) neck. He's not passing it off. The manufacturer drop-down box selection is only additional to the listing description to aid searching. I think JLP would be struggling myself. [quote name='bremen' post='1259809' date='Jun 7 2011, 03:32 PM']The seller is risking breaking a fair few laws though, from the Sale of Goods act up. Probably the best thing he could do would be to pull the listing until he's confirmed that the neck is for real then re-list with a more accurate description. Maybe it is a nice instrument, but it's not as described. Just my £50-an-hoursworth of legal advice ;-)[/quote] Personally that's what I'd do and I'm going to suggest it to him later. No one would buy it if they'd looked in here for sure. Unless of course they secretly knew it was a genuine pre-EB neck and were trying to trash the sale price... Incidentally if you follow the Wikipedia MusicMan Stringray article's link to a "example of a vintage Stingray" it leads to pics of an instrument with identical headstock logo and 4-bolt neck plate, only leaving the string guard placement and question on the sharpness of the point up from the G tuner as casting doubt, well to my unexpert eyes anyway. Actually another look shows the skunk stripe, anyway is that link showing a fake or a real pre-EB MM? ficelles

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1259747' date='Jun 7 2011, 02:50 PM']Why?[/quote] It's called Libel. Look it up. [quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1259747' date='Jun 7 2011, 02:50 PM']I'm using this definition of Lie: To convey a false image or impression[/quote] [u]If[/u] it's a MusicMan neck then it's not a false impression, and since the only evidence to the contrary is unsupported opinion based on some fairly low-res pictures, then it's just your opinion, not a fact. Anyway can I just say how wonderful it is to see so many people in here turn on a fellow musician who has himself been ripped off by someone - who is probably still on fleabay and maybe even in here - and is trying to be fair about selling the item on by giving all the information at his disposal rather than just describing it as it was described to him? ficelles

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1259668' date='Jun 7 2011, 01:45 PM']He believes it to be a genuine musicman neck but can't prove it[/quote] Exactly, based on the response from EBMM. He originally believed the person who he bought it from's claim that the whole thing was genuine but was later told otherwise, presumably by someone who knows MM basses. I'd be careful using that word "lie" in print btw. Just sayin'. ficelles

[quote name='dc2009' post='1259551' date='Jun 7 2011, 12:15 PM']From Jean-Luc: "the title is still unacceptable even with the word 'copy' thrown in. It is against ebays rules to use a brand name in the title to describe a product which is not made by that manufacturer."[/quote] There are several thousand musical instrument listings that need to be reported then! I particularly hate the "Gibson Les Paul by TangleVintage" style usage. Martin's ad title is clear - it's a [u]copy[/u] of a MusicMan Stingray. You can't identify the original without using the brand name in this instance. Anyway I am seeing him later so will offer (in the event that it doesn't sell) to take the thing apart and post detailed pics in here. Assuming he hasn't got totally put off by all the b/s re this listing and burnt it. ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1257186' date='Jun 5 2011, 11:02 AM']If he bought that as a genuine Ray I will eat my hat [/quote] Oh nearly forgot about this - he (not being an MM expert) did buy it as genuine. So get your hat ready for dinner. ficelles

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1259264' date='Jun 7 2011, 07:35 AM']The neck is not even close if your mate wants to compare it with any version from 1982-2010 I have them all in my house. He has been had tough luck I feel bad for him yet we now know numerous people have told him about the neck but still it appears he and you feel It's real? Send pics to EBMM and get proper confirmation then. That listing needs updating properly or reporting to eBay [/quote] Firstly I have no personal opinion on the neck - I wouldn't have a clue about Music Man instrument, have never owned one, never will as they don't appeal to me. Secondly the listing states it's a copy but then in the text repeats the info [u]provided by Music Man[/u]. There is no intention to mislead. Only a moron would think the listing was attempting to pass that guitar off as something it isn't. As for numerous people telling him about the neck, well if it were me I would go with the elicited opinion of the manufacturer rather than unsolicited interference from a lot of self-styled "experts". And I am sure fleabay would do the same. ficelles

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1257913' date='Jun 5 2011, 10:44 PM']Apart from the lie regarding the neck, the title is still unacceptable even with the word 'copy' thrown in. It is against ebays rules to use a brand name in the title to describe a product which is not made by that manufacturer. Thats why I never sell cheap Hoovers, Sellotape, Biros and Kleenex[/quote] Ok kiddo, this seller happens to be a close friend and he ain't lyin' re the neck info. You want to talk about it, maybe come and see me. Fyi he HAS contacted MusicMan and HAS been told by MusicMan - after sending detail photos - that the neck looks genuine (I thought there was a separate serial no on the neck to the one on the body but I could be wrong). Bravado apart, it's clear he was ripped off on this bass and is being very honest rather than repeating the spiel he was given. I have worked on this bass as far as cleaning out the control cavity and using switch cleaner on the pots goes, but since I know zero about MusicMan stuff I can't tell you any more than is in the listing. Whatever it may be it actually plays nicely and sounds pretty good. But don't be so quick to call people liars online - he's a genuine guy who has bought unwisely (unkowingly) and is trying to be fair when re-selling by giving all the info he has at his disposal. Btw if anyone knows the original seller of this bass I'd like a word with him. ficelles

I was really confused by this thread, as to me "Big Al" is a singer from Torrington But anyway having checked the instrument out I can only say: 1) too complicated 2) ugly ficelles