alexclaber

[quote name='NJW' post='17491' date='Jun 14 2007, 11:37 AM']eh-pee-FAW-knee, with stress on the Faw. I believe this is the correct pronunciation according to the company themselves?[/quote]

Exactly - it's an Italian name, like Bergantino - stress on the penultimate syllable.

Is Aguilar pronounced the Spanish way or anglicised?

And Alembic is a.LEM-bik, I believe.

How do you say Skjold?

Alex

[quote name='redroque' post='17423' date='Jun 14 2007, 10:48 AM']always pick up the interesting ones late!
Re drums and coherent kit sound. I can recommend the current Sound on Sound for a good article on this - in very brief - use the over heads first and then bring up the close mikes to support them as required. Don't over pan.[/quote]

I shall check that out! I bought an issue about recording bass recently - though I don't know why I bothered as I've pretty much nailed getting my sound down on tape, it's the drums that are the battle. The problem I'd had with spaced overheads was that even with the close mics all the way down as soon as you got a reasonable width of panning the two images diverged so you'd hear the hihat in two places, the snare in two, etc. The X-Y approach seems far more coherent.

[quote name='redroque' post='17423' date='Jun 14 2007, 10:48 AM']You can get an online sub for SOS instead of the mag - cheaper and gives you access to thier considerable database of reviews and more importantly, how to's.
Not an SOS contributor - just a subscriber! It does increase any GAS problems tho'. But hell, your'e recording now so you can just throw money away for the next x many years. The Tascam is just the start......
max[/quote]

My flatmate at Uni had a subscription so I've had about 4 years of it, plus I read a lot of the older articles when they're released online. Such an awesome magazine but it does promote terrible GAS!

I used to record on a Tascam 424 MkII which worked surprisingly well for tracking a band and then we'd overdub vocals and master on the computer. I do like tape compression but reel to reel is just so expensive. I bought a Fostex MR-8HD last year which was cool (too stingy to buy the 2488) for tracking and then I did all the overdubs on the computer. With this definitive incarnation of The Reluctant I relented, sold the Fostex and bought the 2488. So pleased I did, it's an incredible piece of kit - 24 bit sound really makes a difference. Between Bill and I we have quite a lot of mics and I have a neat little TFPro preamp with a friendly optical compressor which works great for vocals. I'd like a good outboard compressor like the FMR RNC but I shall persevere with the ones in the 2488 - I'm thinking I can always bounce individual tracks back and forth with very subtle compression to build up greater compression whilst maintaining transparency (like the RNC does).

Just listening to the mixes on the hi-fi whilst doing some admin - feeling quite positive. Particularly pleased with the width of the groove on Funeral Song Pt.1 - anyone else liking the drum fill before the final verse?

Alex

[quote name='Delberthot' post='17300' date='Jun 14 2007, 12:24 AM']I have heard that they are grossly inneficient but never personally tried them out[/quote]

I think grossly inefficient is going a bit far!

The Low-B2 is 93dB sensitivity (B1 90dB, B4 96dB). The greatest sensitivity you'll get from a smoothly tuned 2x10" is ~97dB, though if you tune a big hump into the response you can get greater sensitivity in the high-bass at the detriment to lower bass. All those numbers you see companies like Eden, SWR etc quoting are bs, plain and simple. Because the Acmes have essentially flat response they do not help your sound cut or punch through the mix with added midrange - but if you put a punchy sound into them it comes out unsullied - so they're not as obviously loud as other cabs.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='17326' date='Jun 14 2007, 06:33 AM']I've heard the same, but it doesn't it potentially mean you can pump into them double their power rating? Best to talk to Acme direct on that.[/quote]

The limiting factor in terms of cab power handling is not the thermal power rating (350W on a B2 vs 500W for some 2x10"s) but is how far the speakers can move without distortion (known as Xmax). Typical bass guitar woofers have an Xmax of ~4mm. The Acme woofers have an Xmax of ~8mm. If you double the Xmax you quadruple the power handling, which gives you another 6dB of output. In reality Acmes can handle about 300W RMS per woofer without distortion right down to 30Hz, whilst typical bass guitar woofers can handle about 75W RMS per woofer down to 45Hz.

Acmes simply don't sound like typical a 10" bass guitar speakers, they sound full and even from low to high, essentially nothing missing. They don't have the usual hump that lives somewhere between the mid-bass and low-mids followed by a roll-off below 100Hz and plummeting response below 50Hz, instead they stay full down to just above 40Hz where response gradually drops to 30Hz and then plummets.

[quote name='tempo' post='5511' date='May 24 2007, 12:20 AM']I know of only one uk user (alexclaber) who uses these, would appreciate some info from anybody about the cost of importing etc. I have done my own calcs based on the few imports from 'states[/quote]

I can't remember how much mine cost but I do recall having to pay about 25% on top of purchase and shipping costs in import duties. But they're an incredible bargain - bear in mind that if they were being sold through retailers they'd be twice the price due to the usual 100% mark-up. They aren't a 'cheaper' option, they just cost less. Consider that when the Series I was launched there was no boutique cab market so selling through retailers wasn't an option as no shop would stock a bass cab that cost that much. And with the incredibly weak dollar they work out extremely good value even after import costs.

[quote name='tempo' post='5511' date='May 24 2007, 12:20 AM']also how they might do in the "real world" with a 7, tuned low F# up. (I know the maker recomends low B as a limit). [/quote]

They were originally designed for the low B, as that's their tuning frequency. I'd recommend using 30Hz filtering with them (either built into your amp or with a simple filter in the FX loop) as output and power handling drops below there. The good thing about the low F# on a bass guitar is there is very little fundamental content due to the shortness of the scale length compared to the wavelength so even if you had a cab that ran flat to 20Hz you'd barely notice its presence. Bear in mind the number of ERB players using AccuGroove cabs which are tuned higher and have far less output below 40Hz (even the Whappo Grande) and you'll see that none of these players are hearing (or missing) their lowest note fundamentals.

Andy Lewis really knows his stuff and although these speakers are great at the lows, it's the midrange and highs I love - the crossovers are excellent, really well designed and phase accurate and provide seamless integration of the woofers, mid and tweeter. You can use them as studio monitors, they're that accurate. And the build quality is second to none.

I could write more but honestly they are extremely well designed cabs at insanely good prices.

Alex

Darkstars AND an Audere! Nothing looking like a Gibson will have ever been so mud free!

Alex

See, it's done it to the thread title too! It should read, The letterB, with a space of course.

Could someone please stop every instance of the letterB when used alone turning into the word be? So far my attempts to write Plan be, be string, low be and be&C have been foiled!

Alex

[quote name='ped' post='17063' date='Jun 13 2007, 05:18 PM']What made you choose 36"? I have a 36er myself and find it no different to play, but I am sure it contributes to the huge piano like sound.[/quote]

Tension! Every 5-string I've ever played has felt far too floppy on the low-be and too many sound like the low-be is from a different instrument. I spent some time messing around with numbers and sussed out that adding 2" of scale equates to tuning up a semitone which makes a really positive difference to the tension. Also a 2" longer scale length makes the fret to fret stretch the same as if you played everything a semitone lower, which is pretty negligible - as you no doubt have found.

Up 'til now I've used 45-105 strings but getting a low-be to match that kind of tension requires a very heavy gauge. Instead I'm going to drop to 40-55-75-100 with a 130 low-be which gives pretty even tension.

And then there's all the tonal benefits for me. The downside of the extra scale length can be reduced sustain on the G (and C if you have it) string but that's not an issue for me as when I'm going high I'm playing chords or arpeggios, not lead parts.

Give a bit more space round the pickups for slapping too!

Alex

Ped's absolutely right, used hi-fi speakers are a great budget route. I always used to monitor on my hi-fi and have had good results because I know what it sounds like. The active monitors are very convenient because you don't need a separate amp, they are very honest sounding (and can be tweaked to the acoustic space), they go lower and louder (and I've always wanted a pair) and £130 seemed very reasonable to the £200+ you used to have to spend a few years back to get any kind of active monitor let alone good ones!

Alex

A giant photo of Bill showing off Icky Thump in our rhythm section tracking domain:



Alex

I have been astounded by the Tascam VL-X5 active monitors I bought a few months back. They are improbably good for the money!

[url="http://www.tascam.com/Products/vlx5.html"]http://www.tascam.com/Products/vlx5.html[/url]

[url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/5628"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/fl...product_id/5628[/url]

[url="http://forums.frontendaudio.com/index.php?showtopic=312"]http://forums.frontendaudio.com/index.php?showtopic=312[/url]

Alex

I think you're right about the cocobolo with the sap wood - they fit really well with the macassar ebony and the ash.

Alex

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='16959' date='Jun 13 2007, 03:33 PM']Just an update. I have agreed on a new be&C driver. they can ship one out and ill send the Eminence back to them...[/quote]

I don't know if you've read the various posts on talkbass about the be&C vs Eminence woofers, but the consensus seems to be that the Eminence woofers sound more like the old ferrite magnet woofers as found in the NYC cabs - thicker bottom, less high midrange. You mentioned that you prefer the sound but not the weight of the NYC 212 so I thought I better point that out sooner rather than later! Also should you need to replace the woofers at any time in the future, the Eminence ones will be less expensive.

Alex

[quote name='3V17C' post='16867' date='Jun 13 2007, 01:50 PM']The problem I have is that I just cannot get an kind of volume out of it! I A/Bed it last night against the Trace and with everything flat out it only puts out about half the output of the Trace. Its [i]probably[/i] giggable volume (I am in a LOUD rock band!) but it may mean me having to push my power amp (Ampeg AP3550) alot more than I do with the Trace and I don't want to be struggling with headroom.[/quote]

If your power amp has more gain do not be afraid to turn it up. Remember, power output (and thus headroom) and gain (i.e. knob positions) are only very loosely related.

If turning up doesn't work then either the preamp or power amp can usually modded for extra output or sensitivity by swapping a few resistors.

Alex

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='16955' date='Jun 13 2007, 03:28 PM']Interesting thread Alex - any plans to go down the pro tools route eventually?[/quote]

Sadly not, this is a very low budget affair! But I think with a bit of cunning and lateral thinking we should be able to come up with a release quality product, subject to better vocals than some of these somewhat horrific guide tracks...

gypsymoth, how did you get a loud enough master without using compression?

Alex

Just my bass, nowt else.

Alex

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='16866' date='Jun 13 2007, 01:48 PM']Well the new driver has arrived and im not happy.
Its a be&C 12/182D-8 if that means anything to anyone. It feels heavier (in fact it is as i weighed it) and i dont understand the connections on it although i can probably figure it out. The older driver was an Eminence driver and i do expect the drivers to match up.
I have emailed Enrico about this and he is looking in to it but i have also threatened to send the cab back for a full refund.[/quote]

Damn, this is turning into a right nightmare! Epifani recently changed from be&C to Eminence drivers so it looks like you've got one old, one new. Both are good speakers, however they're not at all identical. I would strongly advise against using the cab with mismatched speakers, as they will interact in strange ways within their shared airspace.

Good luck reaching a resolution!

Alex

P.S. I notice that once again a lone letterB is being turned into the word be. V annoying...

Step 3 - Laying down scratch vocals: Full of the joys of spring (or is it summer now) I laid down some very rough vocals that night. Gradually getting the hang of working the 2488, it's quite powerful piece of kit. Did two takes on the first song, one on all the others.

Whilst I'm waiting for the guitarist to pick it up have also fiddled a bit with EQ and compression. No luck with sussing out the compression yet whilst with the EQ I've cut out the highs and lows on the snare close mic and cut out the highs and added a LF peak on the kick mic (to try and stop those mics messing with the stereo picture from the overheads). Rolled off some highs on the bass and added a little more bottom. (The EQ is quite nice, LF and HF shelving with variable frequency and plus single wide ranging fully parametric).

Also worked out how to do mixdowns and burn to CD, so I've done that, had a listen on the home hi-fi (the monitors are still at Bill's) and ripped it to iTunes so I can upload the tracks. So here's the current state of affairs - bass, drums and scratch vocals, minimal EQ, no compression, some vocal reverb:

[url="http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%20Session%20Cuts/01%20Lend%20Us%20A%20Fiver.m4a"]http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%...20A%20Fiver.m4a[/url]

[url="http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%20Session%20Cuts/02%20Single%20Mother.m4a"]http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%...le%20Mother.m4a[/url]

[url="http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%20Session%20Cuts/03%20Time%20Will%20Tell.m4a"]http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%...Will%20Tell.m4a[/url]

[url="http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%20Session%20Cuts/04%20Funeral%20Song%20Pt.1.m4a"]http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%...Song%20Pt.1.m4a[/url]

[url="http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%20Session%20Cuts/05%20Funeral%20Song%20Pt.2.m4a"]http://www.thehumanzoo.com/alex/Demo%20EP%...Song%20Pt.2.m4a[/url]

Listening back on speakers it's obvious that there are some issues with panning too wide and the kick EQ on some tracks. Vibe ain't bad though. (The tracks are iTunes AAC format, not MP3 btw).

Alex

Step 2 - First attempt at bass & drums: About a week later I took my bass and rack along to Bill's, plugged into my cab, DI'd into the multitracker, checked the levels and we were ready to go.

We'd planned on trying tracking with headphones to avoid bleed from the bass causing snare rattles but we had a logistical problem (leads too short!) so we went without. Checked how badly the snare was rattling and then realised that it was all the other snare drums in surrounding cupboards! Got them damped, then got the metronome out (we spent the previous band practice arguing about tempos) so we'd have an agreed starting tempo, though we weren't going to record to a click.

Of all the songs I've written that we have learnt as a band we'd selected our favourite four for an initial EP, so we started on those first. Did one take of Single Mother (an eccentric reggae-ish tune) which went fairly well considering Bill and I have hardly played together without the rest of the band. I sang along a bit to help us not get lost. Listened back and it sounded ok, no glaring mistakes and the right kind of feel. We decided to then try another song, Lend Us A Fiver (a faster shuffle). Blagged our way through that - a little messy but it shouldn't sound pristine, wouldn't suit it. Bill hit the overheads when he got carried away!

Next song, Time Will Tell (a more conventional rock song, quite fast with a motown beat on the intro). We blasted through this pretty well - my endurance started flagging at one point, due to having my amp quiet to avoid bleed and thus plucking harder in response. Both of us were doubting we'd nail the ending as we changed it quite recently but fortunately we were on the ball. Then we tried Funeral Song (which is really two songs in one, a funk number followed by a 12/8 blues). We decided to split it into the two parts due to the strange tempo/feel change in the segué. We started Pt.1 and crashed in the first verse when I got confused! First full take went pretty well, apart from the ending which was a mess (it ends on a weird syncopation). So we practised the ending a bit and then tried Pt.2 which went down in one go. Revisited Pt.1 and got the ending right.

So, that's four (or five depending on your perspective) songs down in about ninety minutes. As it sounded pretty good to be going on with, I decided to take the multitracker home to add scratch vocals and send on to the guitarist for his parts. When we're tracking the rest of the album we'll have another go at these songs to see if we do them better.

To be continued...

Alex

Doh! We have a recording sub-forum...

Alex

be)-->

And some really useful legal articles too! [/quote]

I gather they're running a series on self-publicity too!

Alex

BGM seems to be steadily improving - a lot of fairly wide-ranging and well written content. It knocks the defunct Bassist magazine into a cocked hat...

Alex

I recently started the challenge of recording our first album and thought I might as well try to keep a blog of our trials and tribulations - even if no-one else is curious I can at least make sure I don't make the same mistakes next time!

A bit of background: Having pretty much learnt to play in my band at Uni and done some co-writing, I then spend the ensuing years attempting to put various bands together and learning how to write songs on my own, then gave up on finding vocalists and starting trying to sing myself, found this guitarist, found a drummer and keyboardist, did one gig then they headed off to Uni, then found a new drummer and saxophonist, did a few gigs, kept writing material, and here we are.

After debating various technological solutions I settled on a Tascam 2488 for tracking and hopefully all the mixing. I won't be surprised if I have to master on the computer, just to get a competitively loud mix without squishing all the life out of it. The original plan was to take the 2488 down to the rehearsal studio, stick mics in the relevant places, DI the bass and lay everything down as a band - we're a groove oriented outfit and we're all part of the rhythm section so it would be nice to get all that interaction onto tape. However, this proved futile as although we could load in, get set up and ready to roll quickly enough, all the sound engineering completely took me out of my groove-space. Not good.

So, onto Plan be: My drummer practises in his loft and he thought there'd be space in there for me too, so we decided to try laying down the bass and drums together and then overdub the rest.

Step 1 - Set-Up: Lots of rearranging of things to get the drum kit in a decent spot. Hoiked one of my Acmes up there to live in the corner for bass monitoring, tilted up slightly on Auralex PlatFoam. Bill has an excess of drums - we've gone for his trusty old Pearl Export which has fairly small shells - 4 piece - and is tuned quite low, along with a fairly shallow high tuned snare. On the cymbal front a nice dark ride, and a couple of crashes, both quite dry, one higher pitched, the other halfway between that and the ride. Quite dry hihats too - Bill prefers cheaper cymbals generally because they're less loud and have less sustain. I only recently started doing stereo drum miking (never had the track count in the past) and one thing that I've failed to achieve so far is a coherent mix once the overheads are panned.

Previously I've used spaced overheads so this time we decided to use X-Y crossed overheads (some cheapish small diaphragm condensers), a dynamic mic on the snare (from a Shure drum mic set), and the trusty D112 on the kick (about a foot away from the resonant head - which had a big hole in the centre anyway). I took my monitors along too and stuck them on top of his hifi speakers. Set the levels, did a test record. Played back. Sounded great! Panned the overheads - still great. A miracle!

To be continued...

Alex

P.S. Something is messing with my post - it should not say 'Plan be' above, it should say the obvious. Is there some evil (and dimwitted) spell checker interfering? Aaarghhh...

That wikipedia link is pretty damn good!

There are three different sorts of tweeter I've come across in bass cabs. The cheapest and usually worst sounding is the piezo tweeter - ironically an array of piezo tweeters as in the BFM horn cabs can sound great but as used on its lonesome in a 2-way bass cab they're pretty hopeless - too little power handling, too little sensitivity. But they are very cheap and don't require (or even benefit from) a crossover as they're a capacitive load and are thus naturally highpassed.

The most common tweeter found in bass cabs is the horn tweeter, using a compression driver on a small horn. This can sound amazing or terrible depending on the implementation. The reason most horn drivers sound bad is because the crossover does not have a steep enough slope so too much bottom hits them which makes them distort. The other reason is that when used in a 2-way bass cab (woofer plus tweeter, no midrange speaker) the off-axis response of the woofer is long gone before the tweeter kicks in, so unless the speaker is pointing directly at you there will be a large gap in the upper midrange making the treble seem harsh and disconnected. A select few companies like Bergantino and Euphonic Audio do a great job with these horn tweeters by using a large enough horn crossed over sufficiently low and even woofers whose off-axis midrange response is extended by flexure. This costs money though, as do high order crossovers.

The final tweeter found in bass cabs is the dome tweeter. Nice and smooth sounding, lower distortion but not terribly loud or great at handling power. This approach only works well when you have a midrange speaker to fill the gap between woofer and tweeter but then it works great! This approach was pioneered by Acme and further popularised by AccuGroove (identical model of tweeter but the Acme uses a more complex crossover instead of two tweeters to get sufficient power handling).

If you hate tweeters you probably haven't heard a good one. And they're not just for slappers, they can really improve the whole definition of your sound in a rather hard to perceive way - a bit like the way a good kick drum sound has a surprising amount of treble to define the attack.

Alex

[quote name='Rumble' post='16362' date='Jun 12 2007, 05:29 PM']Thanks Alex, I'll try doing what you suggest. I just have a fear that if I continue to push the amp so hard it's going to bum out on me one day, which would not be good given that I don't have a backup![/quote]

Actually you're more likely to knacker the amp clipping it constantly at 4 ohms than at 8 ohms. But either way you should be fine if you're sensible. Eden amps are pretty well designed on the durability front. I just wish they (and SWR) would name the 'enhance' knob more suitably - like 'lose all your headroom' or 'get lost in the mix' or 'all your punch gone'...

Nice bass btw - I tried OBBM's JO5 and was very impressed - and not something that needs its tone messing with at all!

Alex

I really thought Bill Fitzmaurice had lost it when he kept saying "horse and cart"... Nice to know he's still sane!

Alex