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greghagger

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    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    59 minutes ago, Richard R said:

    My main band job is actually FOH sound engineer. Mute buttons or faders down will end any song, no problem. 

    I have yet to see any form of standard notation for FOH. "Piano up a bit in this section", "Nice bass riff in two bars time, duck the keyboards " That sort of thing. 

    Try speaking to theatre FOH guys, they read music, as do the technical crew who call the show.

    its a necessary skill for them.  

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    15 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

    Examples are grace notes and triplets, but grace notes are fairly crude and not many triplets are three equal subdivisions of a note in real life.

    Don't get me wrong, musical notation is excellent and efficient and it must be great to be able to read it. Lesser ebings like me make the best they can of tab or other alternatives.

    A triplet is normally an equal sub-division if 3 notes across 2 beats. It’s is easy to notate and communicate through written music. 

    Written music is an excellent guide, but good players can still add feel and interpret the part how they wish. There is room for that when you read music. That’s where experience and a good ear really completes the picture. 

    Of course though, some players might have a narrow field of music, and not need to read music. 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    58 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

    As any amputee will tell you there's a big difference between the tools you have to use and what you can achieve with them.

    Written music is just one perspective on a piece of music. There's far far more to a performance than just a crude indication of note pitches, lengths and dynamics. With my pathetic work-it-out-one-note-at-a-time skills it's not difficult to see how totally inadequate a conventional score is for communicating, say, Led Zeppelin, songs - even supplemented by text annotations by Bonham and Page.

    Hmmmm, not sure about this really. Written music can contain a lot of subtleties, and properly written music is far from crude. 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

    Yes but amputation is final and there is no going back. it is a different situation 
     

    Not  learning to read is different because you are voluntarily passing up on a method of communication, rather than being unable to communicate 

    I agree, I have yet to find someone who reads music, say that it isn’t a worthy skill to have. 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    35 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

    Of course there is - but the note pitches, lengths and dynamics are important too. You're assuming that the ear-trained, non-reading musician can simply "get" the note pitches, lengths and dynamics, then their "ear-training" makes them superior at being able to apply all the other factors which make up a great performance - phrasing, timbre, etc. In my experience this isn't the case. Also, there is a MASSIVE time saving in being able to get those note pitches, lengths and dynamics quickly - building a base to add all those extra elements. People who can read can do it quicker, and those who can sight read can do it essentially "in real time", without needing to have heard the song before and possibly play it over and over again in their own time.

    You have got upon a very important point here. The ability to read music can save a lot of time. 

    • Like 1

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    42 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

    They're both good to have but it depends on the situation you're in. In some situations, reading is irrelevant and playing by ear is critical; in others, its the other way round. And its fair to say that neither improves the other, except somewhat vaguely/indirectly. 

    In the scenario I'm in: working with large groups (20+) musicians, with limited rehearsal time to get together and the logistics associated with that, relying on everyone to play by ear would be a disaster. So, everyone needs to read music and its a fast/efficient way to get things done and gig-ready.

    But I can understand in a different scenario, playing by ear would be the way to do it.

    I would agree in so far as in certain situations, one skill might be more important than the other.  But in my opinions they certainly compliment each other, and reading music is always going to add to one’s musicianship. 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Staggering on said:

    Absolutely, but I was thinking  of "playing by ear" in terms of hearing a melody and then playing it or figuring out a melody without having it written out. I would also include being able to hear and play basic chord change patterns like blues and many jazz standards without having to see them on paper. 

    Ah ok, yes I agree that some readers can’t ‘play by ear’.  That skill should not be neglected either.

    I personally think that playing by ear and reading music are both necessary and complimentary skills. If you can do both, then you will have a lot of opportunities with music. 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Staggering on said:

    For some it is read only. I play in two bands (jazz charts/big band/swing) with several university music graduates that also teach or have taught music in secondary schools and can all read like the wind and can improvise to a degree but absolutely cannot play anything by ear.This includes the reed, brass and keyboard players but the drummer with a similar background is quite flexible, but that is part of his job and he also reads well.

    We play gigs and work on new charts all the time and these people can sight read some difficult charts. The good thing is that my reading has improved a lot just to be able to keep up with the rest of the band. 

    But are they not using their ears to keep in tune and time? 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

    That's exactly the problem.

    If you have to work it out, you can't sight read.

    To sight read out have to be able to map dots on the page to frets and the mapping changes depending on the key your are in.

    The only way I could do it is (1) work out key. (2) identify position of root note and either (3) work out each not relative to the root or (4) keep track of where I am in the scale and work out the number of steps up and down.

    I have no idea how people can do that in real time!

    This is not to make out that it’s easy, but reading music is like a language. With a lot of practice, you don’t consciously think about all the points you listed above.  It’s all automatic.  

    I do appreciate that you need to understand this all at the beginning though  

    As adults, we tend to question and analyse everything in the learning process, which might slow us down.  Children thought, generally just accept information and soak it up. 

    It might seem impossible when you look at everything that is involved with reading music, but regularly practicing it, starting with very simple music at first, is key. 

    I will put more details of my course  as it progresses. 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Richard R said:

    "Good Bassists Do F*** All"

    This works for me. But as my bass teacher said when he had stopped laughing,  it may not be suitable to tell an eleven year old girl whose mother is paying for the lessons.

    Definitely a good idea to have such a course.

    That beats Good Boys Deserve Fun Always. 😂

     

    Good Burritos Don’t Fall Apart!

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

    I think that might be the biggest stumbling block for most people. I can read music in the same way  as I can read a few foreign languages, with context and a dictionary I can work my through it. I know what all the notes are and the timing divisions and all the commonly used symbols, but expect me to be able to play faster than a bar a minute and its just not going to happen for anything other than the simplest of pieces.

    Thanks @BigRedX and @T-Bay this is definitely something to incorporate into the video course. Useful to hear your experiences. 

    • Like 1

    chorus pedal recommends

    in Effects

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Soledad said:

    I was a bit torn, but ordered a ceb3. I can use the Sadowsky pre to control top if I need to (or just roll back on the bass) - but either is going to be way better than my very budget Harley Benton. Surely?? !

    Good choice, you won’t regret it! 

    • Thanks 1

    Have You Tried The Kala U-Bass? Here is my video review......

    in Other Instruments

    Posted

    12 hours ago, fretlessguy said:

    I own a 5 string and 4 string solid bodies, and two hollow bodied fours, one fretted and one fretless. They are awesome and a bit more versatile than you would expect. With my advancing arthritis I play them way more than my full size Fenders and Carvin electrics these days.  Plus, they are just plain fun to play. 😃

    Couldn’t agree more, they are such fun to play, and I couldn’t believe the sound with I first played the Uke Bass through an amp!

    I imagine they are more enjoyable to play with Arthritis too. 

    Play Classic Blues Bass Lines with Transcriptions

    in Blues

    Posted

    2 hours ago, thebigyin said:

    Hi Greg,
    More American 60's RnB/Soul think James Jamerson, Tommy Cogbill, Jerry Jemmott, Willie Weeks, Duck Dunn ect, will leave the choice up to you, there's so much out there but to me the above represent that classic Motown, Soul and RnB era.

    I’m with you now. Some great bass players you have listed there. I do have a Motown lesson planned, but a nice idea to showcase some of the bass players that sometimes get overlooked. 

    • Like 1

    Play Classic Blues Bass Lines with Transcriptions

    in Blues

    Posted

    4 hours ago, thebigyin said:

    Some nice lines there Greg, good choice, The thrill is gone and Black magic woman were some of the first lines I learnt...I have modified the thrill is gone to a slightly more funkier line over the years and actually forgotten the original line so it will be good to re-cap and re-learn it lol....keep 'em coming.
    Some good Rhythm n Blues lessons would be nice....Cheers Bob.

    Thanks Bob, glad you like the lesson. 

    Good suggestion to cover some Rhythm n Blues.  Were you meaning British Rhythm n Blues in particular? Any suggestions of artists you would like to see in that lesson?

    Cheers Greg 

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    45 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

    Possibly, but it might be true that most people who could read on ANY instrument, learnt on a previous instrument, if people typically learnt to read music on their first instrument then went on to play another. I think the majority of musicians I know can play, or did play in the past, another instrument. Piano seems a popular initial one.

    Unfortunately, the French Horn stuff is based on experience.......top tip, if you want to stay sane, DON'T try to learn the French Horn.

    How do you make a trombone sound like a French Horn?

    Stick your hand in the bell and play out of tune!

    I’ll get my coat......

    Do you consider reading music important?

    in Theory and Technique

    Posted

    1 hour ago, paul_c2 said:

    At least, on the scheme of things, bass sits in the "middle" of ease of playing vs ease of reading. For example: French Horn. Fiendishly hard to play well, yes you can make fart noises but anything musical needs years of dedication and hundreds of hours of practice. Even an apparently simple line as notated, is difficult to play. So the reading really is a bit of a non-issue here.

    Compare with piano. Dead easy to make a noise on, compared to the French horn. A cat, or 5 year old child, can play the lowest note and the highest note and all those in between. And a beginner will soon be learning both hands at once and chords etc etc etc. The notation is clearly more complex than the French Horn, for a start there's 2 clefs, 2 or more notes at once, etc etc. Fortunately, it is convention to learn to read music to play piano.

    Compare with electric guitar. Very little resources around to learn to read, very little standard notation music published, the same issues with polyphony as the piano (except, sensibly, it sticks to one clef and stave), it would be a nightmare to try learn to read on electric guitar. In fact most people don't, and I don't blame them!

    At least bass is somewhere in between the extremes presented.

    Love your summary of the different instruments here. Especially like your description of the French Horn 😂

    Coming from a background of piano and trumpet, I tend to agree with you. 

    Most reading bassist I know, learnt to read on a previous instrument. I wonder if this is representative of the wider bass community?

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