bassbluestew

[quote]If it was a several years ago when we only took bank wires for foreign orders, that might have been our standard minimum. I don't remember. Email me those old emails as well. Maybe then I can read all that was said and not have to dodge blind attacks from old comments with no information to fill out the situation what was.[/quote]

Hi Ken, it was just a few months back...........I haven't owned my bass for too long. I'll be happy to send you the email, but to be honest I'm really not too concerned. I really just wanted a nice Smith strap to go with my bass ( you know how we bassists can be - wanting everything all matching and all ) and I apologise if this came across as an attack. This was not my intention.

Glad to see your still checking in, I repeat it's good to have a luthier of your reputation and quality on board and hope we can look forward to developing a more mutually enjoyable relationship.

S

Lunch is for wimps !!!!

Pass the salt dear.………

I'm glad a little balance has been restored and hope Ken reads those comments too

Oh and as I said in a previous mail it was I who made the 300 buck minimum overseas order. I have checked back my emails and that is indeed what it said. It was a private email sent to me by Ken himself so I wont be posting it up for general consumption but if you feel you can't live without seeing it I'll pm you a copy on the proviso that you don't post it up. Suffice to say I wasn't mistaken.

Am I correct in think that the Post from skidder652003 was in reply to a private email to Ken ??
If so I have to hold my hands up and say that's very dodgy behaviour. What is said in a private response to an email should be just that - private. Not for general posting.

Just my opinion but I'm probably wrong.

I also agree with previous postings saying Ken Smith came across quite well. In fact his point was proven over again by one of us Only when things got a little out of hand did he start to get a little - and I mean a little - tetchy

Me ??? I'd have been on here with chainsaw playing keepy up with a good few heads !!

S

[quote]Oh and, Ross Curtis here, 19, business student. And to be honest I wouldn't buy a Ken Smith bass because I don't like the majority of botique basses and can't afford it on a student budget. If I did decide in the future when I'm earning good money I do want one I'd think twice about buying a Ken Smith now.[/quote]

Hi Ross, I would fully expect that if this was new bass, or even an older single owner bass, the Ken would have done this. In this case its' not. It's had god knows how many owners, and whilst may be lovingly treated by the current owner, how have the previous owners treated it ??

Also remember this isn't strictly a boutique bass, it's not a cheap bass by any stretch of the imagination, but with all due respect to the current owner, it is one of the lower priced models, and is 10 plus years old. I reckon if he had walked into Kens shop with the bass, the pot would have been supplied and fitted very cheaply, if not FOC.

It's a shame you are ruling out Ken's basses in the future because of this, I'm sure if you played one - with an open mind - it might change your mind. They are truly great.

Stewart

Before this thread gets closed, I want to welcome Ken and thank him for taking the time, and as anyone who runs a business will know, he will have lots of better things to do with his time than answer threads that are going off topic.

Ken, you basses are fantastic, at least mine is. I have been playing for 35 years now, and been through a lot of good and bad basses in that time. This is the best by a long, long way. It's also the most expensive, but I only consider items expensive if they don't fulfil my expectations or if I don't enjoy them. I think this bass is excellent value. And if I needed, I'd buy another. No problem and no hesitation.

Every player I have shown or let play this bass has said WOW, without fail. No one has ever said it anything less.

So thats nailed.....I'm a huge fanboi, I make no excuse nor feel I need to.

HOWEVER, before it gets too gushy, I do think there are marketing and communication issues. Now in a very small ( in number of staff only ) company this is understandable. I am very pleased to hear theres a new website on the way, that will help enormously.

It seems to me that the problem is time, isn't it always. I fully understand that commercial realities mean you just don't have the time to personally deal with every single request for parts or whatever. You have to make a buck as we all do, and you should do what you do best, which is make superb bass guitars. All this notwithstanding you also have a thriving and respected upright / bow business going on too ( how many other top end bass makers can say that ?? ) so you are doubly pressed for time.
Ken, as a possible solution, how about approaching a local university who run a Marketing degree, and offering an internship. I'm sure lots of bass playing Marketing students ( like I was ) would bite your arm off to work full or part time looking after your customer services ( even if only sending out international orders ) to take a bit of the pressure off you ?? As Kiwi said, respect comes from looking after the customers, not defending the product.

Thanks again for taking the time and dealing with some of these replies in a far more dignified and professional manner than I would have. I look forward to more positive relationship developing with the general UK bass playing scene.

Stewart.
p.s It was I who commented on the $300 minimum order for internation sales and having checked I can send a copy of the mail if you want to see it.

I'm sure Messrs Vanderkley are taking note !!!!!

Looking forward to trying your gear...any plans for Scottish dealers ??
S

I am soooooooo hoping someone is gonna appear with a lovely story of great customer service from Smith, I fear I may wait some time.

And I'm a fanboi !!

S

[quote]Sadly, that is just not true. Ken's basses are so good and have no trouble selling[/quote]

Hi Chris, whilst I do agree to an extent, the last few posts say something else. And whilst we might think this is a fairly localised website and Smith or any potential buyers won't see it, how many of us have done extensive Google searches to get background info on an item we are thinking of purchasing. And if this lot came up my alarm bells would be ringing.

The worlds a small place these days.
S

[quote]Sadly, that is just not true. Ken's basses are so good and have no trouble selling[/quote]

Hi Chris, whilst I do agree to an extent, the last few posts say something else. And whilst we might think this is a fairly localised website and Smith or any potential buyers won't see it, how many of us have done extensive Google searches to get background info on an item we are thinking of purchasing. And if this lot came up my alarm bells would be ringing.

The worlds a small place these days.
S

Yup, good luck...............keep us posted !
S

Can I just clarify this poin heret, as I feel ( justifiably I'm afraid ) that this could turn even more into a Smith bashing session, the Smith I own is by far and away the best ( and to be fair the most expensive ) bass I have ever owned. I have however played much more expensive basses that just don't do it for me.

Even the Smith website is poor. I find it confusing and difficult to navigate.

From a purely business perspective I think he really needs to adress this issue with a degree of urgency otherwise his business will suffer which would be a very real shame. I read an article recently - which I freely admit could be complete tosh - where the story went that the CR models are know no longer being referred to as Chuck Rainey models because of a dispute between Ken and Chuck. The point being, that if such stories are circulating freely then there is a problem at source.

Classic example of cracking product, crap customer service. I love my Smith but am not happy with the brand image.

Please sort it Ken, IMHumbleO the basses are the best, lets have the best customer service to match. I think that would be a world beating combo.
S

[quote]However i do think that maybe someone should alert the Ken smith company to this thread, as its nothing but bad publicity for them, hopefully they would change policy of one single price for non guitar items.[/quote]

If I thought it would make a blind bit of difference I would.

I'm afraid the impression I always get from dealing with Smith is that everyone else is out of step but them.

S

Bojour mon ami , as a long time Smith lurker, and farily recent purchaser, I too have had a bad experience with Smith customer service. And don't think it's anything to do with the Burner series, it's pretty much across the board.

I bought a beautiful used BSR5-GN ( the back of this bass is a work of art ) which came with the original hard case. Being a bit of a completeist I emailed Smith and asked if I could purchase the kit that comes with a new bass ( polish / allen keys / strap ) and he said he would sell me the strap ( $60 ) and polish ( $4) and throw in the allen keys free - HOWEVER there was a $300 ( yes THREE HUNDRED DOLLAR minimum order for overseas sales, and that doesn't include postage.

I didn't bother.

It is no surprise that a dwindling number of European dealers are willing to put up with this. US dealers seem to have him on a pedestal and he can do no wrong ( apart from Talkbass who I [i]THINK[/i] have banned him after a spat ). Again US owners are just SOOOO fawning it's almost sickening to read some of the message boards. Again I just don't bother now.

Contrast and compare with the service from other top US luthiers ( perhaps Jimmy Copollo aside - I think he and Ken went to the same customer service school, although to be fair Jimmy is more just forgetful and disorganised than nasty as Ken can appear at times, and Jimmy has recently employed someone to deal with customers and let him build the basses ). It doesn't put Smith in a good light, and the basses are expensive, and popular with a lot of pro players in Europe. Surely this is a market he can't ignore or afford to disenfranchise.

Like you I am very disapointed in Smith's attitude. If I didn't truly love this bass I would be moving it on as a token protest.
Good luck with the part,
Stewart

[quote]Bit hazy on some of what's been said, but if playing heavily is what's being classed as poor technique then I'll be the first to say my technique is awful. The main reason I dig in a lot compared to a lot of players is IMO it sounds infinitely better.[/quote]

Now slightly OT but please bear with me.

I was recently down visiting Phil Nixon at the wonderful Bassgear.co.uk and having a go on a luvverly Avella Coppolo ( hope I've got the spelling correct - too many sets of double letters!!! ) and this very topic came up. He reckoned the AC's really sang later in the set as he was digging in a bit more. I normally play with a light touch ( arthritis makes anything else a very real pain ) but on Sat's gig really went for it and crikey but it sounded very different. So what am laboriously trying to say is that digging in ain't necessarily a bad thing at all. It can actually bring out the signature tones of some basses as I have now heard for myself.

Perversely because I'm such a big softy I'm looking at compressors too so am loving all this info.

SIMON - how do you rate the built in compressors on the TC amps? I'm not sure they have limiters built in too. Your post made very good sense regarding only using compressors and limiters together, first time I have heard that. Must do more research.

S for Stewart - not Softie

Hey I feel for you...........I did something crazy and very similar recently.

O have been a Ray player forever, probably 30 years or so ??

About 20 years ago I heard my first Smith live, and everything changed. Putting aside the guy who was playing it ( my favourite Scottish bass player - Ewen Vernal ) it just sounded, you know RIGHT to my ears. I heard a few more over the years and eveytime I knew it was a Smith ( even went to see Riverdance with SWMBO and thought " I know that sound" and lo it was a Smith.
So recently I decided as my bass playing days are numbered due to progressive arthritits, I was going to seel my lovely Ray and equally gorgeous Overwater and buy a Smith. Like Monk I couldn't decide between using the Overwater or Ray and always felt bad about leaving an expensive bass in its box. SO I took the plunge. Unlike Monk I had no second thoughts, I fell in love with the feel of the Smith as much as the sound. Don't know if Monk had much chance to play the Ric before he bought it - I bought the Smith unplayed. Yeah I know, but I figured if it didn't work out I could easily move it on as the used market is rare for these basses.

Monk, the feelings you have for the Ric run deep. I hope it repays the faith, love and effort you are putting in.

We sooooooooooo need a Tartan Bass Bash btw !!
S

Shame, I made the journey from Glasgow to Doncaster many years back to trade some gear. IIRC the bass bloke was called Dave and a damn nice bloke too.
Slightly OT, the owners daughter ( I think ) was lurking around and although very trendily turned out, she was most definately not shall we say dressed for a cold day. Made my day !! Very nice too. Mrs BBS was NOT impressed.
S

I have Peds old Basson B210b cab. It's a beast. Goes down to 28hz and will handle any amp you throw at it. I used it with a Mesa boogie 400+

It's a big cab but on wheels. Am going to be selling it soon too.
S

Another very good cost effective option is the Protec Contego.

Thomann were doing them for about £70 delivered which is a great price for a terrific piece of kit.
Lots of folks on here use them and I've never heard a bad word about them.

S

My kids violin teacher recommends the medical type alcohol wipes for cleaning rosin from violin strings ( you know the ones you use pre-injection ?? Luckily I have a small supply as I need a weekly injection for my arthritis ) .

Probably available from a chemist ??
S

In the mid 70's I had a green Shergold Meteor bass............liked it well enough but remember the G string used to slip off the neck.
Sold it when I saw Mr Rutherford using his - not good for a spotty 15 year old Mod !

Shortly after that my mates mum ( who was the local church warden ) donated a black back full of clothes and shoes to a Church Sale of Work ( two suits and a coat, two pairs of shoes ) that I had bought in a charity shop and had spent a fortune getting dry cleaned and the shoes resoled etc. I had left them at my mates to show them off to the rest of the band, his mum thought they were rags someone had donated. She was much more embarrased than I was was angry. Poor woman.

S

Contact Phil Nixon at Bassgear.co.uk.......he had a Purple Chilli 2x15 very recently that I lifted with one hand ( and I'm crippled with arthritis ). It's being replaced with a new design, so I'm sure there is a great deal to be had.
Well worth a call. High spec, much cheapness.

Stewart

I have recently sent basses in gig bags, but also well packed in proper cardboard boxes. No problems.

Are you the buyer or seller ??

S

Nice one...................its great to be GAS free.

I am too at the moment, always add at the moment. Well, I am BASS GAS free at the moment. I am thinking of consolidating all my gear into one nice, easily moveable rig. Does that count as GAS ?? Or it that just good sense.

If my poor wife had a penny for everytime she has heard me pathetically try to justify yet another bass purchase by saying "this is the one, I'll have this forever"........................and I bet I'm not alone.

Watch the amps/cabs for sale and have a smile at my expense !!!!

S

Really Kiwi, I wish you'd shown me where I could buy one for that price. I fear your love Uncle Ken could be colouring your normally excellent judgement . I fully appreciate you've bought / sold / owned many more Smiths than I, but having played "Hunt the Smith" recently I couldn't find one ( except with a very badly damaged neck which had been repaired ) for less than £2k, and god knows I looked long and hard for some time all over Europe and the US of A too.

I stand by what I said, I think £2k is a VERY good price at the moment and if I needed another or could justify it to my significant other I'd be all over it.

I'd be interested to hear more from the OP though.
S