warwickhunt

Can I just say that all/any of this input (inc messages) has been and continues to inform my thought processes... please don't think I am trying to pick holes in suggestions, it is genuinely helping come closer to a/several decisions!

Defo a consideration if I was going custom or customising an existing bass but lots of permutations still on the donor bass and/or accessing hardware. I suppose modifying an existing 8 string to be a 12 string is the most viable option for this scenario BUT on reflection (as I type this) an 8 string would look visually correct and sound just about right for 80 - 90% of an audience (the other 10 - 20% being bassists in the audience) so is it worth modding to 12 string... especially as the anally retentive percentage will be tutting at the inaccuracies any way. LOL

That is about correct £0.00 > £5000 (I have to impose a limit somewhere).

I know what you mean about tuner location Kev and it was an early consideration but I start to get into the realms of it not being aesthetically correct and that being the case I have lots of options opening up. On a sliding scale I have: [bugger-it I'll just play a 4 string] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [I'll purchase one of Tom's actual basses] Somewhere on that scale all other options sit and aren't excluded or dismissed.

I don't think there has been a successful 12 string neck with a single truss rod. You are also back to the paradox that the neck needs to be wide enough for 12 strings (50mm would literally be pushing it) and the headstock long enough for 12 machine heads, which pretty much eliminates off the shelf short / medium scale... and you are back into costing 12 string hardware (bridges are custom jobbies). I'm not sure my skills would be up to creating this monster any way. However, this is all good for me as it clarifies my thinking when I answer perfectly reasonable suggestions.

Quite dark lyrical content at times but often delivered in a way that wasn't obvious. Songs about suicide are multiple (due to a friend of theirs committing suicide); they also have a go at sexism, misogyny, pedophilia, among other cheery topics... and then you have 'I want you to want me' which (iirc) the vocalist once said he wishes he'd been dumb enough to write a few more of those! Their first album from '77 still does it for me though and oddly not one single song recorded on a 12 string bass!

Yeah the UK leg was cancelled (again). I've had tickets for the Newcastle show for a while which was rescheduled and then dropped all together.

You have insider knowledge of them being in the UK... pray tell more.

Ouch... harsh but fair! I think I've accepted that sub 9lb AND balanced AND 12 string are mutually exclusive and can't be achieved in 1 package. A bit like Hoffman's Law, I'm going to be going for 2 out of 3 or accepting all 3 will be a compromised bass but that's to be expected. Buying a donor 12 in itself is proving 'very' difficult. A bolt on neck would likely be required for it to work but they are virtually non-existent and I'm not about to go down the route of making a dual truss rod NT bass from scratch. I suppose I could buy a 12 string NT and chop the wings/body off but I'm back to sourcing the donor. ...I may have an update coming shortly; watch this space. It's probably going to open a whole other can of worms... gulp.

Absolutely, this is my 'personal' dilemma! I know PLENTY tribute bands of other genre/style and many don't buy a bog standard copy of what an iconic guitarist/bassist might have used (I'll not go down the clothing/styling/wig route), so do I need to get hung up... probably not but I would like to get as close as possible... within reason. I have and am presently following several of the paths already suggested or at least some of the less expensive routes. I own a Bolin NS bass which isn't dissimilar to the Hamer B12A in outline which could be used as is or a facsimile of a 12 string headstock put on the face. I won't give up on sourcing the correct bass but as I've been a CT fan for over 40 years and probably actively looked for one of his basses for most of that time (depending on my income at any given time).

Hamer XT... is that the MIK Chaparral?

That is pretty much exactly where I am at with my thinking. Option A) is that I get something faux 12 string which will sound pretty much like a 12 string or as near that it makes no difference to the sound of the band. Option B) I wait and source something 2nd hand that is the real thing. Costing out the building of a 12 string regardless of shape, is likely to be in excess of £2500. Admittedly I get exactly what I want but it would have very little resale value, certainly when you consider the number of people who would want (i) a 12 string (ii) a 12 string that mimics something that Tom Petersson uses... because that would be me. Could I get a genuine USA Hamer as per my needs for £2500? Possibly but it might be a long wait and it would need to be someone in the UK as buying one from Europe/USA would incur 25% charges (bass would need to be less than £2k to buy or would end up costing £3k). One outside chance is that I source a Waterstone bass (which Tom used for a few years) which are generally a lot cheaper (but still very scarce) BUT I've heard they suffer terribly from neck dive. I'm fairly sure there are at least a couple BCers who have owned/own Waterstones so I may need to send a couple of PMs to get a feel for how those basses felt/behaved.

Not a bad idea tbh and oddly that bass is local. Painting black coach lines (strings) on the body might work from a distance.

TBH I've been rehearsing with a 4 string and some jiggery pokery with TC pedals and you'd be hard pushed to hear the difference live... it is the authentic aesthetics. I'd happily play a 4 rather than a 12!

From my research and costings, the body is the least expensive part of the total build and reshaping a Chowny or building a body from scratch has little difference. A bolt on neck is also fraught with tension issues with 12 string pull so a NT makes more sense. Initial costings are pointing to a full custom build being into several thousand which is edging toward unfeasible. I totally accept that a builder makes his living so no argument with their costs but as a project which 'might' have limited longevity or at least limited gigs per year (which I knew). Lots of reflection atm.

...distinctly NOT Cheap Trick!

Not silly ideas at all @Maude and something I am considering. Hardware costs will be the same whether I use a doner or a custom build. I suppose the biggest drawback is finding a bass in 5 string mode (yes neck needs to be about 55mm wide at the nut) that could accommodate 12 tuners on the headstock AND be of a shape that would fit my tribute needs. It rules out ALL Fender style basses and if you look at images of 12ers (inc in my original post), every one has 6 on each side headstock... and they are long!

Makes sense otherwise every bass amp would sound the same if EQ was set flat (relative to whatever setting is flat i.e. Fender tone stack isn't 3 dials at 12:00).

You are absolutely correct... and I mean ABSOLUTELY correct. However, I've been a massive Cheap Trick fan for 43 years so this is my homage bass to that band. If I'm honest, it is a last resort. I've spent close on 20 years watching for a proper USA Hamer bass to come up used but it has never happened. I've also bought and owned a couple of brand 12 string basses but they just weren't aesthetically what is needed. I've chased down long dead leads on BC / FB / internet etc to no avail, I've also had wanted ads out at various times over the years and still have friends watching for something appropriate. I'm reckoning £1500+ to have something built but I'd happily spend that and more on a pukka model that hit my needs. We'll see how it pans out, if I end up getting quoted multiples of my initial figure then it is a none starter.

Yes, the body/top horn length will be important on something that will have a lot of mass at the headstock, especially as I want to keep weight down. String spacing is just what it is. There is only so much space available and I'll be using a plectrum with no need to pick individual strings, just groups of 3.

First off I'm not building it! I'm actually looking to inform my design and thought process to have one made for me (no builder selected)... and writing this might clarify my thinking. Background - I've had a Cheap Trick tribute on the back burner since 1979... realistically 2010 but it has come to the point where if I am going to do this I need to knuckle-down and sort the actual instrument for bass use. I've subsequently put a band together and everyone is a serious CT fan and onboard. I just don't have the prerequisite 12 string Tom Petersson bass! I might be able to find a Dean Rhapsody or Hamer Chaparral but I want a more authentic looking TP bass/replica and they are as rare as honest politicians! Hence I am now at a point where custom build looks to be the only (expensive) option (ie the financial hit if the project falls apart will be greater than if I sell a ready manufactured bass) but I'm prepared to commit to it. My questions / dilemma revolve around overall weight (I have a dicky shoulder which copes OK with sub 9lb basses) balance (S M L scale) and playability of a bass with 12 strings, tuners etc. I'm familiar with and focused on the early Cheap Trick Hamer basses of the B12S (short scale double cut) / M (medium scale double cut) / A (long scale single cut) B12S B12M B12A I own 4 string short scale basses and don't find them lacking in bass but worry about all the extra strings and their effect on the sound. IF a long scale had the bridge set back as far as possible; B12A with bridge at the rear edge would bring the strap button to 12th fret... yes/no? Upper fret access isn't technically vital... 12/14ish will do! Could a strap button extension be added to any of the basses as per my Bolin 4 strings to stop imbalance? ...actually the answer is obviously yes! A double cut will weigh less than a SC but could body thickness off-set? Electronics I am less worried about as I'll go for humbuckers in some form as per the above (I hate SC hum) and likely as not active electronics. Am I missing any points / issues... talk to me, guide me. I might not use everything suggested but any thoughts/info will inform my decisions. Sorry for meandering.

...and just to derail this completely! EQ disengaged (by engaging the flat/shape button ), Ashdown designer core tone only (note I didn't say flat) and the OPs 'perceived' flat sound will sound anything but flat if played through cab A / B / C. I learned many years ago (through Bassworld / Basstalk / Basschat) that I actually like the sound that certain speakers make regardless of diameter. Oddly at the time I thought I just liked 10" speakers but it turned out I liked the distorted (not 'distorted') sound of the Eminence 10" drivers in my H&K combos, since then I just use my ears and judge the tone coming from a cab regardless of manufacturer or driver size. Fast forward just a few years and I stumbled on Thunderfunk amps which just worked for me with the EQ set at 12:00... I had plenty of scope to go up or down if room dynamics needed it (which I rarely did) due to the semi-parametric EQ. I've still since then tried different amp flavours to see if I could get even better sound; many/most were 'different' but rarely better (IMHO) so I went back to TF. It appears to have been established that in the world of commercially available domestic bass amplifiers, FLAT physically can't exist but amplifiers should have a position at which EQ can be adjusted. I'm sure it has been said but if an amp gives you the sort of sound you like with the controls set in such a manner/position that you can tweak to meet acoustic peculiarities, then you are sorted. Whether that be a Helix/processor/preamp into as uncoloured a power section/IEM/PA or full fat valve amp into ceramic/neo 5"/10"/12"/15"/18" cabinet is immaterial, it has to meet your needs which will be different for all of us.

Search out the thread on putting bass through a line-array, lots of relevant info re the Evox 8 and various speaker set ups.

Ex HB100 owner/user input. I purchased a 'new' unit from Leszek/HB about 3 years ago which arrived and I initially had an issue with what appeared to be the drive button dropping power/volume down. It was suggested by Leszek (who responded pretty quickly) that I was using the incorrect output connection to an inappropriate load. As it happens I wasn't (40 years experience of amps/cabs) and the amp went 'pop' the 2nd time it was powered up due to a fractured/broken power valve. Long story / short, I ended up with a full refund and the amp was (iirc) repaired and rehomed. No slight on Leszek for the full refund but I did find it odd that I was immediately on the back foot as it was intimated that it was my lack of knowledge re ohmage that was the issue, when in fact the amp had a totally separate issue. Fast forward a year or so and I ended up purchasing another used WB100 (gawd knows it might have been my original one ), which operated 100% as it should. By that I mean that I could back the master (output volume) down and turn the gain (input control) up and get some classic overdriven sounds at house volumes, which I think is what is being debated. That isn't however, the way I ran the amp at gig levels as I wanted a clean tone; I then ran the master output full (possibly backed off a smidgen) and adjusted the input to get my desired volume. Just my £0.02