Dragonlord

17 minutes ago, Tradfusion said:

I wonder how something like this would work for busking with a lower wattage combo, like 25-50w max?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jackery-PowerBar-Portable-Generator-23200mAh/dp/B07CKSPVM8/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_60_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=32XPSDXCV73QJ693JDEJ

I recently bought this: https://www.amazon.de/Omars-Powerbank-Tragbares-Ladegerät-Steckdose/dp/B07MZN8TFL/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=ac+power+bank&qid=1555623029&s=gateway&sr=8-5 for my guitarist who does busking with a 50W Roland Cube and he's very happy with it.

Well, nowadays there are nice power banks that output 220-240V AC at around 80GBP or so and it could be used for other stuff as well... or a 19V DC power bank (for laptops) with the appropriate plug.

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I have to smile.

So 700W @ 4ohms = 350W @ 8 ohms.

Simples, right?

So when I suggested earlier today that 500W @ 4 ohms = 250W @ 8 ohms, I got told that wasn't the case... it would be more like 350W @ 8 ohms

So I have no idea who to be believing on this stuff, the manufacturers or more-expert-than-me BC'ers? 

From what I understand, those specs are to be taken with a grain of salt to some extent. I've read that it's usually not exactly half the power at twice the resistance. It could be like 680W@4 ohm and 378W@8 ohm, and the manufacturer will say 700/350 for simplicity (Bergantino already having 8 ohm cabs rated at 350W when the B|Amp was released could also have something to do with it - just guessing). Then there is the amount of distortion the manufacturers feel OK with. For example, the B|Amp, WD800 and your DG M900 all have the same ICE power amp. IIRC, Bergantino publishes power ratings with 1% distortion, whereas Darkglass allows 20% distortion or something like that. So the same power module can give more watts, but not at the same quality after some point.

On 22/03/2019 at 23:28, Al Krow said:

@Dood another great review, thanks.

There's almost too much going on with this amp in terms of functionality (including semi-parametric across all EQ settings) but I suspect with a bit of time invested folk will be able to pretty quickly get their head around it and save favourite settings to preset for quick access.

My only niggle is that it boasts of being 700W @ 4 ohms, but doesn't give an 8 ohm power rating. So I presume its 350W at 8 ohms, which would rule it out for me particularly if I was having to part with £1,200. Would have the welly to drive the low end of a quality Fearless F112 cab? It seems to be missing a key ingredient of any quality amp which, for me, is simply to amplify with headroom to spare. 

It does give an 8 ohm power rating, and it is indeed 350W (just check out the product page https://bergantino.com/product/bamp/ ). BTW you can also choose the Q on the parametric EQ for each band among narrow/medium/wide. I know it can seem a little intimidating, but the cool thing is that you can basically ignore the menus and use it like a "plain" amp. But I love the extra options and it also has a very good parallel compressor. And the overdrive/distortion/fuzz are getting better and better with each update! I have mine paired with an Audiokinesis TC212 and couldn't be happier. The only amp that put me to thoughts is the new Forte HP, but I'll wait to see if they make a B|Amp HP as well, I'm spoiled by all the options the B|Amp offers. If 350W@8ohm seems low, just go with the Forte HP. I'm sure the WD800 is an amazing amp as well though (but, same power section as the B|Amp AFAIK).

Forgot to answer about power handing, it's rated at 500W but all three cabs you're looking at are supposed to use the Eminence 3012LF or similar, so they should be similar in power handling practically, mostly a matter of what each brand feels it's safe to recommend.

31 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

That's a really neat summary of the Fearless vs BF BB2, which seems to chime with what other folk have been saying ie the Fearless just edges it on sound / looks (albeit subjective) / design (ability to use as wedge) / price new and the BB2 on weight / portability. 

Out of interest, what would be the shipped cost of the AK112UFT, and what is its power handling? 

The BB2 IS, IMO, still the easiest to get hold of used of all three, which then for me becomes the best value option. I guess that's simply because it's the best known and best selling of the high end 112 cabs we've been discussing on this thread. 

It did go a little over $1000 IIRC, including shipping to Greece. The UFT is Duke's latest design, with a second tweeter facing upwards (best tweeter I've heard btw), you could get his standard TC112 for less (not to mention find it used on TB, they come up from time to time). Worth sending an email to Duke IMO, he's pretty busy so you might need to wait a few days or remind him, but he replies - and he replies incredibly honestly, to the extent that he might even recommend another manufacturer's cab if he thinks it will meet your needs better than his designs, no kidding. It's like talking to a friend and that's priceless in my book...

I was also looking at those, read every thread there is out there... unfortunately I haven't tried either, only a Super Twin (or whatever the tweeterless BF 212 is called). Between those two, based on what I've read, I think I'd go for the Fearless if my top priority was the sound and for the BF if it was weight. But I'd like to add another suggestion, the Audiokinesis Thunderchild, which is what I went with. Should give you less low lows, but they are enough for me - and it helps avoid boominess. It's also more compact compared to the two you're looking at, with the weight a little above the BF. Might cost a little more when you factor in shipping and import taxes, but personally I didn't regret it. I have a TC212 and recently ordered a TC112UFT too. Duke, the owner, is also probably the nicest guy I've dealt with in the industry.

Hope I'm not breaking any rules, but since you asked here's a song from my band (posting a link since it's not really a specific genre, you could say heavy rock I guess). There's no overdrive on this (just a little from the B|Amp), hopefully I'll be using the Locomotive on the album version of the song, when we're ready for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfx5KtuT6Vo

@Al Krow lol, sorry about that! What can I say, I like my bass toys, don't spend much on anything else so I allow myself this little luxury. And I only keep what I use, and try to buy used so that I don't lose much when I move gear. For example I got the Verellen when they were having a 20% discount or something so I could sell it at the same price. It was impressive, but except for the form factor, I didn't like the fact that I found it had a baked-in EQ which I had to work against to get my own EQ back. Not a deal breaker but it seemed a little less impressive once I figured that out. I wouldn't directly compare the Locomotive to the Meatsmoke, different beasts. I like that the Locomotive doesn't affect your EQ more than expected from a tube circuit. I should also add that it has less gain than the Alpha Omega (or the Meatsmoke), but I had them mod mine for more gain. There are some nice and pretty accurate demos on youtube.

Crazy Tube Circuits Locomotive for me - OK, I came back to write some more as I realised this won't be too helpful. Anyway, I went through my share of overdrives, was very fond of a Fulltone Bassdrive years ago, got a Verellen Meatsmoke at some point but didn't like the fact it was heavily EQed or the size - of course it was still awesome, but too much money to have tied into one awkward to carry pedal. Recently got a Darkglass Alpha Omega and the Locomotive to try. The Alpha Omega was more versatile (it can do something close to the Locomotive, but it can also do much more), but for what I'm doing at the moment the Locomotive was the clear winner. Warmer (no wonder as it has a tube in it), transparent, more "open" - the Darkglass sounds a bit compressed in comparison. Overall just great quality and lovely vintagey tone.

Used to have a Glockenklang Heart Rock which I loved, preferred it to the DB750 I had tried back then which sounded a bit wooly... but years went by and I didn't want to carry it any more. I tried some of the newer class D Glocks but they felt like a clear downgrade. Got a Bergantino B|Amp as my last attempt at class D and wow. Still love it after a year+. Not exactly better than the Heart Rock, but a worthy replacement for me tone-wise, plus the weight and versatility/various options are delicious. No amp GAS after that. Just cab GAS 😅 - which, after a small journey with Aguilar, Vanderkley and Bergantino, seems to also have been cured after I got an Audiokinesis TC212. I'm very happy with this setup. Broke, but happy!

No, the switch makes it "safe for down to 2 ohm operation" as opposed to "safe for down to 4 ohm operation" with the switch off, it doesn't mean it has to be exactly a 2 ohm load (as it would be with say a tube amp). With the switch off the amp outputs 800W at 4 ohm, with the switch on it outputs 800W at 2 ohm and to achieve that the wattage at higher loads drops. At 4 ohm (which is indeed what your total load will be with two 8 ohm cabs) it becomes around 600W.

Set the amp at 2 ohm operation, this way it will put out 600W at 4 ohm, therefore 300W into each cab. With a little caution you should really be fine.

6 hours ago, bazzbass said:

the problem with mixing cabs is that the 210 will get the same power as the 115 cab. the two 10s will only have half the power of the single 15. This is not ideal and is why a lot of people recommend two identical cabs.

two 210 cabs stacked vertically is really good,especially to hear yourself as the speakers are closer to your ears

That's not such a big problem as a 210 has around the same cone area as a 115. That's why a 210+115 is usually a better match than a 410+115.

@Fingers McGee, yep, that's right. One thing you must understand is that the wattage on the cabs is more like tolerance levels (as in "safe up to 300W"), the output comes from the amp. So with an amp that is 600W@4ohm, yeah, you'll be getting all of it with two 8ohm cabs, and if they're rated at 300W each it should be a fine match. With an 8ohm cab, even if it's rated at 1000W, you'll be getting what your amp puts out at 8ohm (if it's 600W@4ohm, it will usually be around 300-350W@8ohm).

38 minutes ago, Fingers McGee said:

Thanks everyone. Was a bit nervous with it being my first post, but I’m really great full for the sound advice and for everyone going easy on me

So I’ll need to have a chat with the guys in the band as we joint own the PA, but I’m still thinking of updating my rig. I’ve had the Ampeg for around 10yrs, although I love the sound of the amp. I also really like the sound of Ashdowns And they’re in my price range. So, with that being said, what would be your recommendations on the following gear: 

- Ashdown ABM EVO IV 600 Watt Bass Amplifier Head 

- Ashdown ABM 900 Watt EVO III Bass Anplifier Head

both these heads are the same price, but the 600w is a newer spec

speakers:

- Ashdown ABM 410H 4x10 Bass Cab

- Ashdown ABM-210H 300w 2x10 Compact Bass Ca

- Ashdown ABM-115H Compact EVO IV Bass Cabinet 

so, for example, would the 600w head, combined with the 2x10 cab and 1x15 can be best, or would the 900w and 4x10 cab be the way to go? From what I understand of everyone’s comments, doing something like the 2x10, 1x15 and 900w would be a no go as I would be pushing too much through that set up

whats everyone’s thoughts, please?

 

I wouldn't worry about "pushing too much" - that's why you have a volume knob! It comes down to what sounds best to you and how many (and how heavy) cabs you are comfortable carrying. But only you can answer those questions. Either a 410 or a 210+115 should be plenty to cover pretty much anything. The 210+115 (or 210+210) would give you a modular setup so that you could only bring one to rehearsals and small gigs. Still, if you love your amp, as you say, be careful because you might end up giving a lot of money and in the end being happier with your previous setup. New isn't always better!

You've already got solid advice, but I'll agree that if you like the sound of your combo then there's no reason to change it. Right now your output is 280W at 8 ohm. You can add another 8 ohm cabinet (a 4 ohm would not be safe with your amp, as it will bring the total impedence down to 2.67 ohm). Ideally you want the same wattage going to each speaker, so another 210 will bring the amp output to 450W and double the speaker area, giving you a good bump in volume, although a 410 should also work fine. But yeah, try boosting your mids first and consider the PA path too.

14 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I guess, I'm leaning towards the Vanderkley. Whatever cab I choose I'd have something great, so I'll hopefully be okay with that. Barefaced are definitely close after much thought, but I can't get to Brighton due to my work. So I'm buying blind regardless.

I appreciate barefaced do custom baffles, but getting one and not liking the sound negates the warranty so you can't send it back and buying something just to send it back for a slightly different one seems bonkers.

I don't think they're flimsy at all. There was a time when "barefaced handles" was a recurring joke on these forums, but it hasn't been for some time. I just don't dig on the looks as standard and the paint finish just isn't for me. As I've said on many occasions, if Alex did something about that, he'd get the custom of shallow preening Bass peacocks like myself. I don't think he's ever going to and if I'm paying £1200 for a cab, I want one which not only sounds great, but looks like as much care was taken presentationally as sonically. Should I care? Probably not, but I do.

All that being said, I still haven't fully made up my mind.

Well, being in London it shouldn't be too hard to find a used BF to see if you like the sound. If you don't, you can sell it at around the same price, and if you do, you can sell it and order one with a painted baffle or tolex or whatever would make you happy visually.

That said, the Vanderkley is an awesome cab. Hard to go wrong with one. Clean, deep, great definition. It's just that if you want (sonically) uncoloured, the BF might be even closer to what you're looking for.

Sure, that seems viable too, I think it's worth trying! You'd probably still get a sound closer to the Amp Three's with two of them than with one+powered cab, because the speaker is part of the AER's sound, but it might work for you and turn out to be cheaper.

8 minutes ago, Tubster said:

No, that would be a pretty expensive option and not sure it would give a big enough sound or make the most economic sense. But sure, it’s true I like the sound of one. Probably going for the sound of 3x but not at 3x the cost - close to €5k!

Well if you sell the Aguilar and Bergs it should be no extra cost at all to buy a second AER - and I think it should be as loud as that rig... Just saying, if you know what you like then it might be financially better in the long run to buy that from the beginning than trying other stuff based on suggestions on the net (not sure how much hi-end gear you can try in Spain).

Digital octavers can track great but the sound is usually a bit, well, "digital". A good analog octaver with an upper octave will give a more musical sound with a little fuzz. I had a Foxrox Octron which was great, and the COG T-65 should be similar. If it doesn't absolutely have to be one octave up, my latest addition is a tube overdrive (Crazy Tube Circuits Locomotive) which has a very open and natural, guitar-like overdrive and I love it. I also had an Akai Unibass a long time ago, and an Electro Harmonix HOG, which can add an octave+5th above that, but this may not always be ideal because you could find yourself playing outside the scale, since the 5th is always fixed.

Sell the Aguilar and Bergs and buy a second Amp Three if you like the sound. Use one for smaller venues, both for bigger ones. Problem solved 😎

44 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I am right in thinking that the Berg is more coloured than the Vanderkley with Barefaced being least coloured? 

When I asked Mark Vanderkley what was "flat" for the tweeter, he said it was "taste." I'd been running my Markbass cabs with the tweeters full on so nothing was cut, but I couldn't control the treble quite to my own taste. What does everyone think? Do the other 3 allow for this type of control?

Well, as Dan said, they are differently coloured. Mind you, I have the (ceramic loaded) HD112 and not the HDN that you're looking at. The Vanderkley is a very sweet sounding cab and I can definately understand many players falling in love with its sound. Personally I'm going to move both (for different reasons), I have an Audiokinesis on the way (which should be pretty similar to Barefaced). But yeah, expect to use your eq to take a cab like this to where you like it, it may sound dull at first, whereas other cabs could take you closer to a more pleasant and familiar sound with little to no eq adjustments.

I've done a fair share of research on these brands you're looking at. Currently I own a Vanderkley 112EXT and a Bergantino HD112. They are great cabs but yes, they are coloured, if your ideal cab just puts out what goes in then you'll probably have better luck with the Barefaced 12s. And yes the Vanderkley is bright (although you can compensate for that to a degree with EQ). I get what you're saying about the BF looks but up close I didn't find them so bad. And you can order them with a coloured baffle at a small extra fee. The red baffle, a la Vanderkley, is pretty good looking IMO.

Sounds like you're describing the Bergantino Forte.

Bought a cab from John, it arrived in mint condition after overseas shipping. He was a total pleasure to work with, you can trust him without worries.