Annoying Twit

[quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1395098018' post='2398799'] MIJ Aria here for £70: [url="http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/aria-pro-ii-bass-guitar/1052941623#photo-content"]http://www.gumtree.c...3#photo-content[/url] A Cardinal or something? Not clued up on these, obviously the paint job and the chopped off headstock devalue it but still cheap for parts or restoration. [/quote] I don't know what it looks like in real life, but from the picture I like the custom paint job. Pity about the headstock though.

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1395069889' post='2398257'] 84 items - 0 bids. [/quote]

I'm adding you as a favourite seller. Not specifically because you're on basschat, but mainly because they were some interesting basses. Edit: Ebay won't let me follow you. 'Sorry, there was an error."

Paul 'Stick' Annis does a better job of doing (deliberately) slightly crazy bass demos. IMHO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v9fe94zC4

I'm sure I've seen this seller before. I recognise this negative feedback and response. [url="http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=pinemartyn&iid=151255885277&de=off&items=25&which=negative&interval=365&_trkparms=negative_365"]http://feedback.ebay...ms=negative_365[/url] [quote] Poor service any problems thay dont want to be bothered item never come Buyer: [size=3]7***7 ( 297)[/size] 19-Aug-13 09:27 [list] [*] [b]Reply[/b] by pinemartyn (19-Aug-13 17:22): [color=#000000]Dishonest. I have Certificate of Posting but u declined? Extortioner. Blocked![/color] [/list] [/quote]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-RBX260F-fretless-electric-bass-guitar-/151255885277?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item23378da5dd [quote] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]Hi folks, and welcome to my auction for this 'cash on collection only' item.[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]VERY IMPORTANT: the following terms and conditions apply to this listing:[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]1. You must be able to collect this item [b]in person[/b] between the hours of 8.00am and 9.30pm on [/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]Thursday [/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]13[/color][/size][/font][color=#FF0010][font=Arial][size=1]th March[/size][/font][/color][color=#FF0010][font=Arial][size=1] 2014[/size][/font][/color][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][color=#FF0010][font=Arial][size=1]2. The item is to be collected from the DG12 postcode area[/size][/font][/color][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]3. I will not post this item, neither will I permit collection by a courier[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]4. You must pay the total in full via 'cash on collection'[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]5. I will ask you to sign for the item upon collection[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]6. If you intend to bid then please send me a brief message via eBay messages [b]before [/b]bidding, including the following text:[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]"If I am the winning bidder I will collect this item in person from DG12 between 08:00 and 21:30 on 13.03[/color][/size][/font][color=#FF0010][font=Arial][size=1].14,[/size][/font][/color][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]and I will pay the winning bid in full by cash"[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]7. If you overlook any of the points above then any bid you place will be cancelled as null and void as it breaches the specific terms and conditions of this auction.[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]In addition you may be reported as a Non Paying Bidder[/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Times][size=1][center][font="Arial"][size="5"][color="#ff0010"]Thanks for your understanding... peace to all [/color][/size][/font][/center][/size][/font][/color] [/quote]

With an Alder body, and an EMG Select pickup, is there any reason why it should sound particularly better than a lot of basses that you can buy new for much less? How it feels would be done to the skills of the luthier. But, we don't know how good he/she is at all, and hence would be buying blind. I've seen a lot of hand-made basses sell, and there have been a number of them that have sold for a fraction of £499 even though they looked a lot nicer than this one, and had better bits on them. I'm sure that at least some of the ones that have sold have probably been excellent instruments - but it's a matter of knowing which ones.

There are a number of hand-made basses that turn up on ebay. In this case, the builder is selling for £499 starting bid. I've looked through the listing, but there is no sign that the builder is a known luthier with a reputation. With the reputation of a Jon Shuker or similar person, is it realistic to expect someone to pay that much for the bass? The materials themselves and certainly the labour and tool wear involved may mean that a bass has to be sold for that much to cover costs. But, if potential buyers don't have enough knowledge to know whether the bass is very well built or not, are there many people that would pay that price? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hand-made-fretless-bass-with-piezo-bridge-/161250515889?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item258b479bb1

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-Grind-BXP-6-string-bass-/301111939853?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=zgoxxBqtdu024zL8n%252BkinWvoXhI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Bargain if real.

[quote name='madshadows' timestamp='1394885533' post='2396263'] LOL John [/quote] +1

<p>[quote name=&#39;flyfisher&#39; timestamp=&#39;1394831287&#39; post=&#39;2395852&#39;]<br /> My point is that when such good basses can be bought for such relatively small sums, why would anyone bother to buy a £90 bass and put up with its shortcomings?&nbsp;&nbsp;Basically, I don&#39;t buy into this whole &#39;beginner&#39;s bass&#39; thing.&nbsp;&nbsp;A beginner&#39;s bass is the one that a beginner uses to start learning, that&#39;s all.&nbsp;&nbsp;I see no reason for that bass to be a poor quality instrument.&nbsp;&nbsp;Fortunately, basses are cheap enough that that&#39;s not necessary - and that&#39;s a good thing isn&#39;t it?<br /> [/quote] Tom1946 seems happy with his '51 p-bass replica, and that cost less than £90 new. Second hand, there are a lot of decent basses available for £90 or less. While there are still poor instruments out there (I can&#39;t comment on the Rockburn in Argos), it does seem that nowdays even very small amounts of money can get you something that is there or thereabouts. The instrument I have that I actually play (bit of a story there) with the lowest new price is a Yammy Pacifica guitar. I think it's a decent instrument - can't do everything but it does a lot well IMHO. I'd be very lucky if I sold it and got £90 for it. I feel that beginners don't particularly need this bass or that bass. What they do need is a bass that's properly set up, as they're unlikely to be able to do so themselves. But, once you have a solid bass well set up, then it shouldn't really be that limiting as far as I can see. Though, I suspect that there are a lot of beginners out there limited because they have an instrument in 'out of the box' setup, and it isn't very good.

This is reasonably priced IMHO. They occasionally go for less than this, but the fretless Thunders have been selling well recently. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WESTONE-THUNDER-1-A-ACTIVE-FRETLESS-BASS-GUITAR-MATSUMOKU-/111299898832?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item19e9fdadd0"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item19e9fdadd0[/url]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARIA-PRO-II-SB-R60-/331152832729?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item4d1a3f38d9 WTF?

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1394755244' post='2395008'] Quality basses are cheap as chips these days. [/quote] Out of interest, could you name some basses that are 'quality' by your own subjective measure, and also cheap as chips?

I read online that sometimes this bass turns up at low prices, and sometimes it turns up for 'crazy' prices. It seems that like those people who post old Satellite basses for £500, that there is some over-confidence in how collectible these are. £85 does seem cheap though, and it's possible someone might be able to flip it for a profit. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/57034-epiphone-et-280-shortscale-bass/"]http://basschat.co.u...hortscale-bass/[/url] If it was a ET-288N for that price, I would have bought it and be planning how I can fit in the bus ride all the way to Swadlincote and back. Some people say they are decent. [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/epiphone-et-280-mij-974812/"]http://www.talkbass....280-mij-974812/[/url] But even at £85, my gut feeling is that I just don't want to own it.

I don't recognise this model at all. What is it? [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Epiphone-Bass-Guitar-Red-and-Black-Working-/271423744262?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3f321da906"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3f321da906[/url] Edit: It's an ET280, from 1970-75. [url="http://epiphonewiki.com/index.php/ET-Series_Basses"]http://epiphonewiki....T-Series_Basses[/url] Said to be made in the Matsumoku plant in Japan. Is this some kind of collector's item? Edit2: "Bottom of the line bass" "Crap - the bass that ruined Epiphone for many years". [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/epiphone-et-280-any-good-597573/"]http://www.talkbass....ny-good-597573/[/url] Old and funky though. Looking at the pictures, the ET280 looks like 60s rubbish. But by the time of the ET288 it looks as if Matsumoku was finding its mojo.

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1394663967' post='2393934'] What operating system and browser are you using? [/quote] Safari/Mac OSX

&--#60;p&--#62;You&#39;re correct - I didn&#39;t look carefully enough at the neck.&--#60;/p&--#62; &--#60;div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"&--#62;&nbsp;&--#60;/div&--#62; Edit: Why are my posts full of escaped HTML?

£225 seems reasonable for this through neck Aria Pro 2 SB600, though it's not the newest looking example I've seen. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARIA-SB-600-BASS-GUITAR-1980-/201051313167?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2ecf97940f"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2ecf97940f[/url]

<p>[quote name=&#39;Geek99&#39; timestamp=&#39;1394635318&#39; post=&#39;2393559&#39;]<br /> I think an earlier poster said it all, youve outgrown it when you realise that it has limitations, <strong>and</strong> that they are limiting <strong>you</strong>.<br /> If you havent noticed yet, then you dont <em>need </em>anything better (although you might <em>want </em>it)&nbsp;&nbsp;.<br /> [/quote]<br /> <br /> My question was for those who have outgrown an instrument, asking them what they found limiting with cheap instruments, meaning that they have outgrown them.<br /> <br /> The instrument that I have that I find limiting is that often I can&#39;t get a good sound out of my Rockbass Streamer as I find the pickups a bit weedy. However, I have heard it make a good sound through an amp (not mine) that had plenty of welly and had its own distinctive sound - it sounded like a different bass entirely. Hence, in that case, maybe it&#39;s not the bass that is at fault. (This is just an example - I&#39;m hoping this won&#39;t send this thread sideways concerning a different problem).&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I&#39;ve played lots of cheap instruments that I feel I would be very happy playing, and that wouldn&#39;t hold me back. Hence, given that I&#39;ve read of people saying that they&#39;ve outgrown cheap instruments, I was wondering what aspects of the cheap instruments that they found not good enough.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;">&nbsp;</div>

<p>[quote name=&#39;flyfisher&#39; timestamp=&#39;1394626114&#39; post=&#39;2393398&#39;] In some professions, the &#39;tools of the trade&#39; can make a big difference. An extreme example would be F1 where you could be the best driver in the world but will be outclassed by someone with a better car. Music is not like that because the sort of instruments that our musical heroes play are really quite affordable. We CAN get our hands on the same sort of gear that the best pros play, just the same as we CAN don the same running shoes as Mo Farah, but they will make little difference to our playing ability. [/quote]</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>But music is not competitive in the same way that say Formula One is. A formula one car that is 0.5s/lap off the pace is nowhere. But, a bassist isn&#39;t normally rated e.g. solely on their speed. So, if you ask a potential champion why a Force India isn&#39;t good enough for the top level, but a Red Bull (thinking of last year - we don&#39;t know what will happen this year) is, then they can tell us. It&#39;s that 0.5s/lap (or thereabouts) that is a vital difference. This thread is intended to be about what is the vital difference between a moderately cheap bass and the really top flight stuff.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>If Formula one was about driving around tracks in an entertaining manner with a distinctive style, then any of the current Formula One cars would be entirely up to the job. If playing bass was about who can play the most notes in a minute, then it would be easy to say that a bass that allows a player to play three more notes a minute would be something that people really need if they&#39;re going to be a champion bassplayer. But bass playing isn&#39;t about that, and hence it&#39;s less obvious why we need really good and expensive basses, and why moderately inexpensive basses hold people back.&nbsp;</p> <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;">&nbsp;</div>

@Bilbo - I can see how problems with tuning stability, noisy pickups, poor fret work, poor intonation, etc. could hinder improvement. However, modern cheap instruments seem to have solved those problems. The cheap bass I quote often as an example is a Yamaha RBX374 which I don't own but played. To me, and this might say more about me than the instrument, it seemed absolutely spot on. (I didn't play it plugged in and hence can't talk about the sound, but it seems typical of that style of bass given what's on youtube). Reviews I've read suggest that action, tuning stability, fretwork, etc. are all good. Hence, provided that someone isn't trying to buy a bass for £70 new, say if someone has a budget of £250 or so, that it isn't that difficult to be 'lucky' to find a relatively cheap bass that works well. Unless of course what I and reviewers consider to be 'works well' isn't what more experienced people consider 'works well'. @FinnDave - good points. I find particularly the jack socket of my cheap basses come loose annoyingly often. Apart from my cheapest (to me) bass, my Shine 6'er which has a really well designed and rock solid jack socket.

Some interesting points here. I don't have any particular beliefs about this myself, I just wanted to ask the question to see what other people thought. I've found, e.g. that a relatively cheap Fender Modern Player bass matched a much more expensive USA precision. However, that could be because there is only a small difference between them, or perhaps because I didn't notice the difference. Also, it could be that it's necessary to move to a high end hand made boutique bass to really notice the difference, and I've never played one of those. Also, I'm not sure what makes the expensive bass sufficiently 'better' to mean that someone has outgrown cheaper basses. Hence, I can't define 'better' in this situation. How strong the B string is for a five or more string bass is an important characteristic. I've seen people say that cheap basses never have a good B string. But, I've also seen people say that some cheap basses have an excellent B string. A weak B string might be good enough for practice and learning, but probably not for performance and recording. One thing that I do when I try a new bass is to try and play something I can't play yet. I haven't yet found a bass that would allow me to play significantly better than I can on the equipment that I have. Which agrees with the comments above (e.g. flyfisher) that it's technique that holds people back, rather than the equipment, much of the time. Though, if the only difference between a high end bass and a cheapie is that the high end bass feels better, then that could easily be enough justification. If someone spends a lot of time using an instrument, then paying an extra grand could easily be worth it, even if the advantage is that the better bass just feels a bit nicer. For a professional musician, compare the cost of a boutique bass to a white an, or the tools required for many jobs. A boutique bass doesn't look expensive in comparison. [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1394623040' post='2393360'] As you improve as a player you can feel limited by the instrument. [/quote] Limited in which way?

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1394608960' post='2393172'] I see a lot of basses advertised with the RRP in the listing. This is all well and good but these basses are never sold at the RRP. If I see a bass up for £2200 and a quick google search reveals the same bass going new for £2500 Its not going to raise my interest. Anyone with Two and a half grand to be spending on a bass is just going to spend the extra £300 and get a new one. It's only when something gets down to a much lower percentage of the new price that it becomes attractive to buyers. [/quote] I've noted that some basses sell for a very high percentage of their new price, and some others sell for far less. Squier VM/CV prices vary, but 75% of new price (albeit there's a shop near me that sells for very competitive prices) doesn't seem unusual. Lower mid-range Yamahas, despite being good basses, often sell for 30-40% of their new price. Possibly due to high availability as they've made and sold huge numbers of them.

I've seen a number of people state that they have outgrown cheap basses that they had, and have moved onto more expensive basses. What causes someone to progress to a stage where a cheap bass is no longer 'enough', and they must have a more expensive bass. Expensive basses that I've played do have something extra over most cheaper basses. But if I compare, say a well set up Squier Affinity Precision to a USA Precision, while I can feel the difference, the affinity is still usable. One of the best feeling basses I've played was a Yamaha RBX374, and at the £230 or so price it was selling for, that's a reasonably cheap bass. I can understand that players might get used to the feel of more expensive instruments, and it might be too much of a step back to then play a less refined instrument. If someone uses a very low action, then the quality of fretwork might mean the difference between massive fret buzz and little fret buzz. The pickups and electronics may sound better. But, I've also seen it said that the sound difference between (say) a USA Precision and a stock Westfield Precision might not be too much when they're in a mix with other instruments. So, for any people here who feel that they couldn't live, or really don't want to live, with a cheaper but quality for the price, instrument, what are the factors that cause that to be true?