mikel

Must be bad if its a rail crash, car crash gigs are bad enough. 

For me a gig is a gig.  I have had well paid gigs that were poorly attended and had little interest from the punters,  and pub gigs that were a storm for the punters and the band where it cost us more to get there. Its the gig itself that matters to me not the quality of the venue. I would play every weekend,  Fri to Sun given the option,  its why I play an instrument. 

Probably not.  Some believe that an old instrument sounds better,  for want of a more appropriate word,  than a new one. Some think an old instrument looks better. Look at the fashion for buying reliced instruments,  they can't all be bought by boomers. Personally I prefer to buy new, then it's mine,  and any wear or tear will be mine. 

6 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Born in Salzburg (1756...), in the Holy Roman Empire, Mozart showed prodigious ability from his earliest childhood. Already competent on keyboard and violin, he composed from the age of five and performed before European royalty. His father took him on a grand tour of Europe and then three trips to Italy. At 17, he was a musician at the Salzburg court but grew restless and travelled in search of a better position.

While visiting Vienna in 1781, aged 25, Mozart was dismissed from his Salzburg position. He stayed in Vienna, where he achieved fame but little financial security. During his final years there, he composed many of his best-known symphonies, concertos, and operas. His Requiem was largely unfinished by the time of his death at the age of 35, the circumstances of which are largely uncertain and much mythologized.

Yea,  but its not rock and roll is it. 

What is most impressive about the Beatles,  and is rarely mentioned, is their recording output lasted  only seven years. The depth and breadth of their songs in that short space of time is truly staggering. To go from Love me Do to,  for sake of argument,  Helter Skelter or I am the Walrus is inventive genius. 

47 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

This may be a taste of what the shows could be; it helps, then, when listening to the disks to better make the connections between the music, the lyrics, the ambience and the visuals...

 

 

Agreed. Saw them in 72 and 73. Awesome shows. The music was flawless and Gabriel was on top form. 

23 hours ago, Daz39 said:

At least its not a phase he later regretted. He is totally committed to all that sort of thing, and Yes were far too pop clinical for my liking when he wasn't the singist.

Sure they can be a bit serious - but it must be hard work remembering what bit comes next halfway through Close to the Edge - all of their long songs refuse to fit any sort of decent structure. It's just crackers. You can't listen to Tales from Topographic Oceans the same way you listen to an album of a dozen 3 minute songs. It requires dedication and a suspension of musical disbelief  

That's what I loved about 70s prog. You had to commit to listening to an album. Songs, and sometimes whole albums, were a musical journey, not the predictable trope of a 3 minute pop song. 

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Funnily enough, I preferred the Coverdale / Hughes version, especially the album with Tommy Bolin! Not the same band, but certainly more to my taste (not that I didn't like the classic Gillan / Glover line-up). 

 

I was talking vocalist and drummer. Paice made the early Purple, with Gillan. After, it was just soft rock. 

4 hours ago, peteb said:

 

WTF are you on about? You have just brought up several bands that illustrate what I was saying pretty well:

 

Iron Maiden: sacked their drummer as soon as they got a record deal

AC/DC: run as a vehicle for the Young brothers, with everyone else as hired hands (even the LV) and a constantly changing line-up, especially in the early years

Black Sabbath: originally run more as a democratic band, but with Iommi as the leader until they fell out with Dio with singers and drummers coming and going – when Ozzy came back for the reunions, obviously the dynamic changed, and he had the biggest say due to his commercial clout

Deep Purple: constantly changing singers & bass players, mainly due to the whim of Blackmore in their Mk 2 /Mk 3 heyday

Genesis: a more democratic set-up with people coming and going of their own volition

Pink Floyd: like Genesis until Waters started throwing his weight around – once he went the principles were Gilmour, Mason & Wright with Gilmour as the clear leader

 

You have obviously misunderstood what I was saying and picked out bands that changed the lead singer! Certainly, the LV tends to be the frontman and as such, often more difficult to replace, but the focal point / band leader in the acts you have mentioned was not the singer.

 

Agreed. Purple without Ian Paice and Ian   Gillan????? Not the same band. 

4 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Steve Howe has quite a country twang, and the band is all the better for it.

I always felt he was more jazz and Americana, or Chet Atkins type style. But he was certainly not rock or blues, and all the better for that. 

50 minutes ago, Misdee said:

Something I gleaned recently is that while Yes were creating Close To The Edge, Steve Howe was very much in the thrall of John McLaughlin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra. That influence had never really occurred to me despite having heard that album hundreds of times, but now it makes perfect sense. It's also a reminder of the astonishing brilliance of John McLaughlin as a guitarist.

 

 By the time they wrote Sound Chaser the band were absorbing some of the influence of Return To Forever and Weather Report.

 

To me this is an interesting perspective because Yes get categorised by a lot of folks as coming from a predominantly European symphonic tradition in terms of their musical influences. This is not true, and Steve Howe  in particular has always been a lexicon of guitar styles from a variety of styles and eras. The rest of the band were as hip as anyone at the time, too. Yes had plenty (maybe a few too many) of twiddly bits, that is undeniable, but even the twiddly bits were quite diverse.

I think it's mainly the Wakeman guiding hand on song arrangements that gave the impression of symphonic influence. I was heavily influenced by Yes, the Yes Album was like a bolt from the blue for me when it was released. Close to the Edge is my all time favorite piece of music, to date. 

1 hour ago, MacDaddy said:

 

who are the 5 who buy their way in?

On past history I would guess Russian. 

Euro vision is moderately entertaining but has little to do with the music. 

49 minutes ago, Nicko said:

10,000 hours of properly directed practice might be enough for me to be a lot better, but I'll never achieve virtuoso level with ten times that amount.

 

I've been playing guitar for 40 years - I'm pretty sure I've averaged 5 hours a week during that time and I'm only an intermediate player.

As I say, the old 10000 hours trope is aimed at treating the task like a full time Uni course or an apprenticeship. It must be specific and full on. 40 hours a week minimum.

7 hours ago, wintoid said:

There's this idea around that 10000 hours of doing anything gets you to complete mastery. 

 

I'm playing about an hour a day at the moment, so that would take about 27 years in total.  During my teenage years, I reckon I played about an hour a day for maybe 5 years, and then just dribs and drabs through my 20s/30s.

 

So perhaps 22 years to go.  How about you?

 

Does anyone feel like they've pretty much mastered it in much less time?  Just interested as I seem to be making good progress, but nowhere near being able to say I'm a master.

Its what you put into the 10000 hours. It needs to be specific to what you wish to be a master of. I did a 5 year apprenticeship to become a toolmaker. Every one of those 40 hours a week for 50 weeks for 5 years was focused on becoming a fully trained engineer. Apprenticeships are partly where the 10000 hours idea comes from.

On 01/07/2022 at 10:35, Misdee said:

The thing is, for the most part Glastonbury is a celebration of old people's music. Most of the bands on the bill(but not all, I hasten to add) are playing music that is not remotely new and is referential to music from previous generations. Despite all their efforts to be "relevant" and "representative", Glastonbury is primarily a celebration of Dad Rock and it's traditional and reassuring values.

 

Rock music belongs to old people. They invented it.

Possibly. But looking at a lot of the audiences, it obviously still appeals to a lot of the younger generation(s). And a lot of younger artists are playing tock. Music is music is music.

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

It's interesting isn't it about how people can get the sound so wrong. Especially in a world where you can get degrees in music technology as opposed to the world I started in where the blind led the blind. The first job of setting up a PA was to build the speakers!

 

The thing is that whilst there is science or engineering and it is certainly useful to know your theory there is also skill and care involved. A couple of years ago in Hyde Park I heard the Killers, Elbow and Tears for Fears all using the same PA, Elbow sounded great, Tears for Fears out of this world and the Killers awful. Killed (sic) by the kick, distortion from the subs being overdriven, bass mud and the guitarist barely audible. This went on for the whole of the gig with no-one apparently noticing at the desk which must have had half a dozen people there.

 

Meanwhile on a side stage a young band came on, no sound check. The young engineer (sorry John) in his very early 20's started with the overblown kick and one note bass but tamed it about 60secs into the first song. 5 mins later the sound was just glorious and he stopped twiddling and sat back to let the band do their thing pretty much. All this achieved with easing the sliders into position so that no-one would have noticed the gradual changes as he made them. He can't have been more than 23 but it was a total joy to watch/hear.

 

I'm sure age/experience helps as does learning about sound systematically but you can't teach a good set of ears and an understanding of music, or a willingness to listen and an understanding of how musicians work. 

He was probably using the old adage of,cut dont boost, tone controls if the sound is way off.

12 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Semantics. 

"Semantics"?  No, but definitely not engineers.

11 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Is this not the modern world? Everything is the best thing ever. Everything is so crammed full of profound moments you'll run out of skin once you start getting tattoos about the iconic memories you simply need to trigger. Make sure you let everyone know, too, with an array of carefully taken selfies to show how in the moment you were, living your best life out loud! Hey, PREMIER LEAGUE will be back soon, don't miss a second of it! YOLO!

Agreed. The BBC in particular is becoming like an endless version of Blue Peter. Talking down and dumbing down presentation as If we are all 7 year olds and need to be told how great something is, and told how much we are enjoying it. I can make an informed judgement thank you. Dressed myself too.

On 25/06/2022 at 13:47, SteveXFR said:

 Drugs. Lots of drugs.

 

I didn't say no one would enjoy it, I just said I thought it was very bland. Personal opinion and all that junk.

I think if you pay a lot of cash and travel a long way you are determined to enjoy every minute. Take the huge crowd for Diana Ross, loving every minute despite the fact she was flat most of the time, bless her. Its the festival atmosphere.

4 hours ago, NJE said:

Watched a couple of sets last night and still need to check out some of the headliners.

 

TLC had a slick band but there was something weird going on with the vocals that was distracting me, maybe a vocal effect or something on the backing track? 
 

Skunk Anansie are always worth a look, there’s a few songs of theirs I will always love as they drag out memories of being a teenager. Pretty good, wasn’t blown away.

 

Watched a few other bits I can’t recall but highlight for me so far was Sigrid. Her band were superb, her bass player was great, some nice lines and flicking back and forth between synth and great vocalist on top.

 

Guitarist held it down nicely and let rip on a couple of occasions in a classy way. I just love Sigrid, she writes some great catchy song, great singer, and huge energy.

 

I will check some more out today and this evening. Really want to check out Olivia Rodrigo and Jessie Ware.

 

Yep. I will be checking out Sigrid's back catalogue. Good voice and a good band.

On 24/06/2022 at 10:28, Silvia Bluejay said:

You may want to ask Kanye West? 😂😂

Never herd of her.

Sam Fender, First Aid Kit, and Blossoms the highlights for me so far. Paul was excellent, as expected. A true pro.

Worst mix recently? An outdoor Americana weekend at the Sage a few years ago. The dreaded enormous thudding, sub heavy bass drum that shook your fillings. On that music? And we were right behind the desk. The best? Deacon Blue at the City Hall this year. Perfectly reproduced the sound of their recordings. They were using a more traditional sound system, bins, mids horns etc, no line array, and it sounded fabulous. It was punchy and every instrument was clearly audible. Bass and drums are integral to the DB sound and they were as good as you can get live. I thanked the sound guy after the show as we passed the desk.

16 hours ago, TimR said:

Watching Queen: Live at the Rainbow on Sky Arts - it'll be repeated...

 

John Deacon doesn't appear to drop below 7th fret very often. 

 

And he's a lunatic, all over the stage and his body is bopping to 8ths for the most of it.

 

What a player. He's definitely one of my early influences. 

 

Now left wondering if 70s sound systems couldn't do the bottom end with any power, or whether something else is going on.

Oh they could do low end. Massive bass bins and folded horn cabs. Made todays systems sound like transistor radios. No heft you see.