thegummy

12 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

Just scanning through the posts here and the whole subject of chasing tone.  Same old, same old.  Never ages.

 

OP: "I've been listening to a lot of <insert band here> and want to get a <insert bass here> or something that sounds like it."

 

Replies: "Oh, he played a <insert bass here> and also a <insert bass here>.  I had a <insert bass here> and put in a <insert pickup here> and it sounded <insert superlative here>.  <Insert random photo here.>".

 

Lads, we really need to stop chasing this ridiculous dream of tone perfection, because unless you have (very) deep pockets, you'll always be on the hunt and it will never end.  I'll say it again and again; tone is subjective, your gold standard is someone else's iron pyrite.

 

There's this allusion that sounding like Pino/Geddy/Jaco/whoever needs to be facilitated with the purchase of a triple-priced Custom Shop Signature model, but it won't. There's too many factors/nuances that go towards what they sound like from string choice, processing, signal chain, to the air that hits your ears.  Go and watch some Rig Rundowns on You Tube.

 

A good analogy here: I remember how sad I felt when, some 40+ years ago, I found that a lot of Geddy Lee's stuff was recorded on a (then) still relatively new Fender Jazz bass.  I'd been duped because I was of the belief that it was a Rickenbacker all along.

 

 

It's not that at all. 

I wanted, e.g., the Pink Floyd bass sound so got a precision with flats. Now when I want that sound I play that bass and get it. 

I wanted a Stevie Ray Vaughan guitar sound so got a Strat and get that sound when I want it. Etc. 

Not everyone asking these questions is on some futile dream chase.

Thanks a lot guys. 

Had no idea it was such a complicated bass. Just been listening to Marillion a lot lately, loved the bass tone so much and looked up what it was. 

Thought it might be the pickup type/placement that was giving it, hadn't counted on there being unique gadgetry.

Appreciate the help.

Anyone know of a bass that can get a similar sound to an Aria SB1000 but in the price and quality range of Squier Classic Vibe or Sterling Sub?

Doesn't have to look similar. 

Cheers.

23 hours ago, jd56hawk said:

This is Flamingo Pinkburst from their Custom Shop configuration page.

Only pink available, but the configurator is pretty good, much better than the Fender one.

In case you didn't already know about it, the Maruszczyk custom designer is the best thing like that I've found by far.

https://www.public-peace-customshop.de/

Thank you Reggaebass!

That's close enough for jazz.

Looks as good as I hoped.

Oof that is lovely.

I was looking more for the Pueblo Pink which is kind of like Fender's Shell Pink.

If anyone has it?

Anyone got a pic of a Pueblo Pink Stingray with a tortoiseshell pickguard?

Even if it's just a pic you've got online. 

Cheers (fingers crossed)

2 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

NBD

My black/Tort Mustang-a-like turned up yesterday.

Very pleased with the purchase, all the previous comments and reviews by Lowend Lobster & Bassthe World are spot on.

Excellent fit & finish, light wight, lovely roasted bound neck and great balance on a strap.

The improvements of the tuners and 3-position Pup selector switch are just right and the Pups are loud and mid forward.

Great P tones and the high gain bridge Pup adds just the right of honk to replicate a Jazz tone.

I missed these the first time round but fate provided the opportunity to buy one of the later runs with the improvements that I would probably and done if I had purchased one from the first batch.

I bought this as an upgrade platform to follow @pedand @Andyjr1515 lead with the mods to the '66 Mustang by adding a Gemini TBird Pup and swapping out the bridge Pup for a Warman Twin rail humbucker ( yet to be decided).

Interestingly the 'P' Pup is exactly positioned in the short scale sweet spot, 10ins from the 12th fret, so the Genini TBird Pup should sound full and rich.

Great value for money, JMJ on a shoe string( how do they do it?????)

Sweet, do a wee video

11 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

 

I would imagine that Thomann would have negotiated a much better deal than that, with the volume of instruments they sell, just like I don't expect they'll pay for the hardware what I would pay in a shop. 

 

edit: I also needed less than one rod to do a full neck

 

They do look just like Luminlay, but even if they're not, it's not exactly hi-tech. I'm sure they will do a decent job. 

I stopped using it because I don't think they're that useful. They're very bright initially, but that fades away rapidly in a few minutes. The residual glow is good in the dark, but any dark stages I've been, there's always some other moving lights and in the end it doesn't help as much as I wished.

I once made my own, buying a small pot of glow in the dark paint, and powder separately. I mixed a bit of paint with powder until I got a paste, and put "blobs" over the existing side dots. They were very discrete and glowed brightly... but the best was that I could tell the dots by touch, and that was far more useful than any glow, for me.

Surprised your Limunlay faded like that - mine stay bright for at least an hour's gig. That's why I assumed it was totally different to the powder they use on toys (which do fade in a few minutes).

How long did you charge them for before the gig?

2 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

 

I used Luminlay on a couple of cheap basses as a test, it was most definitely 'affordable'

 

I just checked, £16 for the blueish one (side dots: 3mm with black surround, which is what I used before) and £15 for green. I didn't see the shipping cost. 

I remember the shipping costs being quite bad but even just taking £16 - that's a lot of money for a very small part of a mass produced bass that's selling to the end customer for 200 quid.

It's like we might think "why use cheapo pots and switches when the higher quality ones are only a few quid" but at the level of mass production to make basses as cheap as that, every penny makes a big difference so I'd be shocked if Harley Benton were using Luminlay brand product.

I expect they're either using a worse version or have somehow found an equal alternative that's much cheaper.

5 hours ago, MichaelDean said:

It's just about how much powder they use as to how long it lasts. I've seen YouTube videos of guitar makers, making their own glow in the dark inlays that last longer because they just put more powder in than Luminlay. They don't have a magic formula that no-one else understands, as I understand it, they're just the first to do it at scale. 

I was under the impression that Luminlay is a different material to the stuff they use in toys, stickers etc.

Maybe it's not but then it would be strange that people would go to the expense of importing it specifically from that Japanese company. 

Don't know if it's the case for Luminlay but usually when one company has a product that others don't it's because they have patents for it rather than no one else understanding how it's done. 

Would be interested to see a comparison in brightness and longevity between these Harley Bentons and an instrument with the Luminlay brand dots. Won't hold my breath that I'll see one though lol.

10 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

Luminlay is not that expensive, but postage from Japan became very high. At least that was the case last I looked. I bought 2-3 rods years ago and I still have some so I heven't been keeping up.

Was expensive when I bought it but that was years ago. The fact I've only really seen it stock on reasonably expensive instruments made me think it still is. 

Wonder why more instruments don't come with it stock if it's cheap now. Maybe it's not deemed to be that desirable and Harley Benton are taking a chance that maybe it will be a selling point. 

1 minute ago, tegs07 said:

Personally I would leave things as they are if you have both a P bass and a J bass.

 

Fair enough.

I suppose if we're getting in to all the other things I'm considering apart from potential resale, I do strongly prefer the sound of P basses over Js so that likely comes in to my possible willingness to do this.

30 minutes ago, MichaelDean said:

Glow in the dark power itself is pretty cheap (you can find it on eBay). If you can find someone to make it into a shape you can quickly install as an inlay, I can't see the extra spend being enormous. Especially since they've dropped the Gotoh hardware for this incarnation. 

Yeah the stuff they use for toys and kids stickers etc. must be cheap cause the products themselves cost less than Luminlay material. But those things don't glow in the dark as brightly or for as long Luminlay.

That's what I'm wondering, have they used the cheapo stuff (so it's a bit of a gimmick) or have they found a way to make the dots as good as (or close to) Luminlay for much less money?

36 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

If I understand correctly you have a P bass and a Jazz bass already?

TBH that covers just about everything?

Either one on its own covers everything, it's just about having sound options. Obviously if both have roundwounds then neither will get the flatwound sound

24 minutes ago, sprocketflup said:

I have butchered a cheap bass in a similar way myself, (Cruiser Crafter) but its staying with me anyway so I'm not bovvered

Do you have any pics of the cavity you enlarged by any chance?

43 minutes ago, neepheid said:

Sidebar, but what's the rush?  If you can't afford £100 now, put what you can aside a month until you can.  I know that's an unfashionable way of looking at things in today's world of fast, easy credit, but if you set that aside and call it your "bass fund", then there's no guilt when it gets spent on a bass.

There's no real rush but at the moment I can't even afford all the normal things I need to live, never mind put any money aside. 

It's either a one-off 25 quid purchase of a pickup or wait a long long time til I'm likely to be able to afford another bass.

Sadly I don't have any available credit either or it would be a moot point cause I'd have already blown it on a limited edition Japanese blue precision I fell in love with but has now stopped being made

1 hour ago, Jonesy said:

You could probably pick up a 2nd hand Harley Benton for £60-£80 - appreciate that it's still a lot more than £25 to buy now, but it's cheaper than the drop in value on your Schecter imo. They're really decent basses, not just decent for the money, but they're all nice players and easily on par with Squier (maybe not the CVs). Some might be a little on the heavy side or have cheaper bridges/tuners/pots etc, but I've never had one with tuning or intonation issues, so the hardware does its job. The pups in them are decent and will be up to the task.

 

This is a pretty good video to compare the difference in sound between a lower end Squier and top end Fender.....

 

 

There is a difference, and most of it will be in what you feel, but from the sounds they're all fairly close. My assumption is those Fender stickers on the headstock must be really expensive to make compared to the Squier ones, and the Harley Benton ones must be dirt cheap....

For sound I'm 100% in the "only the pickup and strings matter" camp so I'm not concerned about the sound of a very low priced instrument, it's the feel, how much it stays in tune etc. 

There's definitely a markup for some brand names like Fender but I don't think the other extreme - i.e. a 1 grand Fender is the same quality as a 150 quid bass except the logo - is that realistic. The more expensive the instrument, the more extra you're paying for smaller and smaller differences and I believe there's many basses in the 400-500 that are really great quality but the bottom of the range Harley Bentons are really pushing the price low. Even other HB P clones are nearly 3 times the price.

This reminds me a time I was in GuitarGuitar and wanted to play an American Fender and Mexican Fender at the same time to compare and the girl in the shop reacted like I was trying to compare a push bike to a BMW when in reality they're virtually identical other than some subtle differences (incidentally, at that time I decided it was worth paying a lot extra for a small improvement and went for the American). But it was funny the way she acted like it was crazy to even compare the two. Always wondered if she was genuinely buying in to the marketing herself and innocently passing on the naivety or if she knew they were far closer than the price suggests and was just trying to con me.

50 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

 

 

 

You'd be surprised. 

 

Are they as good as a Yammy? No. Are they good enough to gig? Yes. Are they good enough to decide whether you prefer flats or rounds on a P? Definitely. 

 

You could flip it once you're finished playing around for a net spend of close to £0. Even if you kept it, by the time you take into account the spend on the pup and the drop in value on your Schecter, you're still spending about the same amount

Appreciate you taking the time to list all those links.

At the moment I literally can't even afford to buy a 100 quid bass (still talking more than 5 times the price of a pickup for even the most bottom of the range bass).

Have to admit I'm very sceptical that a bass that's £111 brand new could be at all decent. I'm open to the idea that I'm completely wrong but with even budget basses costing 4 times that, it seems strange one with such a low price would be any good. Given that a £111 Harley Benton and £2000+ Fender are essentially identical in the grand scheme of things, if the quality differences between the two are so small that the incredibly cheap one would still be decent then that's one hell of a markup for what would have to be a small difference.

But maybe that's the case, I'm definitely intrigued. Would be interested in getting one in the future purely to find out just how close it is to my Fender.

Something that stands out to me from the specs is the glow in the dark side dots since Luminlay itself is expensive and I've only really seen it come stock on quite expensive instruments. 

I wonder if they've found a cheap alternative that works as well as Luminlay or if it's a really poor substitute like they might use on a child's toy or something.

If you've only got it recently I'd recommend giving it a bit of time first. It does feel different to a J but I found it to be fine once I was used to it.

1 hour ago, Jonesy said:

 

I think everyone on the forum would say 2 P basses were essential, for your exact dilemma - one for rounds and one for flats. 

 

Prices have gone insane over the past few years, but there's still plenty of good basses you can get at the lower end. You'd be able to get a cheap 2nd hand Harley Benton (or even a new one, depending on the model) for not much more than the price of a P pickup. 

For new prices, the P pickup I fancy is 24 quid - I'd find it hard to believe even a bass costing 10 times that would be any good given that Yamaha's cheapest is nearly double that now (£450).

47 minutes ago, Paolo85 said:

Well, as others have said, the neck pickup on a J is not in the same place as in a P. This would have a big impact on the sound and therefore, unfortunately, would not give you a helpful tool to compare flats and rounds

Well that's why I would have to chisel it out, hence this thread

The non-bridge pickup on a J is actually in the same position as one of the coils of a P pickup though, I'd just have to chisel it a bit wider then chisel out a bit for the other coil.

53 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

 

Ah OK, in which case I can save you a lot of time, damage and injuries from a chisel.........put flats on the P and keep em there 😂. I put flats on a P after using rounds for most of my playing life and I'm a convert. They sound brill. Depends on what music you play I guess, but I use them for a blues band and they're ideal. 

 

I know this won't fit your decent amount of time criteria, but there might be other members near you that already have flats on a P and would be more than willing to let you come over and play around for a while. You'd at least get an idea of if it was worth then modding your J. Even then, by the time you buy the P pickup, flats and consider the drop in resale on your Schecter, looking out for a cheap P sold with flats on it might be the cheaper option.

I've always went back and forth between flats and rounds so I already have a few different sets of flats (from when I wasn't so skint lol). When it comes to feel there's no contest - I love the feel of flats so much and, in comparison, rounds don't come close to as nice for feel. But for sound I'm undecided - they do both sound good but I really want to spend time going directly between the two over plenty of different songs to see if I want to settle on either or if I really feel the need for both in the long term.

As you say, it big time depends on the genre - some genres like the blues you mention sound perfect with flats but I find that the fuller the rhythm guitars get, the more difference the sound is between rounds and flats.

Definitely undecided about the mod at the moment thanks to this thread allowing me to gauge the resale effect. Might hold off a while and maybe I'll be in a financial position to get a second P. Saying that, the last time I was browsing for basses to buy was only a couple of years ago and the price of them has gone up an insane amount! Was quite interested in the Yamaha BB but the models are all now pretty much the price the model up was just 2 years ago. Pretty much doubled in price!

1 minute ago, Jonesy said:

Just thought - if you're looking for a bigger sound from your J and don't want a permanent mod made, have you thought about a series/parallel switch? I bought a (really lovely and well made) loom from ki0gon and really love it. It doesn't make your J sound like a P, but definitely helps beef things up a bit. It's a really great mod. 

I've actually done that before and it's pretty cool - thanks for the tip.

It's really because I want to do a bit of comparison between flats and rounds using a P. I find that I can only get a true feel of comparing 2 instruments by going between them over a decent amount of time; always given me more realistic comparisons than comparing recordings or just comparing in a shop and if I just switch strings on the same bass I need to do a setup which takes a bit of time, especially since my P has the old school truss rod adjustment at the bottom of the neck.

If I had the money I'd buy like a Squier or something to do it but I don't have the money for even that at the moment so thinking about modding the J. Just need to think whether it's worth losing potential sell on value now.