thegummy

26 minutes ago, Grangur said:

@ClassicVibes  & @thegummy, it really all depends on where and how this was bought. If he bought it after seeing it in the flesh then, under UK Law, legally it's  "buyer beware". It's down to the buyer to take a look and satisfy yourself that you know what you're buying.

If it was an internet sale, then it's something that should be in the description. But after 12months + are you really thinking he stands a chance of complaining to the seller through EBay?

Sorry guys, but after a year it's a bit late now.

I wasn't talking about legality though I really doubt that the law leaves it up to the buyer to be able to tell if some of the parts had been swapped. Maybe if you quoted specific legal text that said that I'd change my mind.

On basses swapping pickups is seen as common and usually an "upgrade" but the law doesn't specifically cater to basses, it's just an item sold where part of it has been changed to something by a different manufacturer.

If the neck or body was swapped would it still be up to the buyer to spot that? If everything except the volume knob was swapped? How much of the original item are you saying the law requires to remain what is advertised for it still to be up to the buyer to notice?

Or are you saying they could call it an American Fender, it really is a Harley Benton with the logo changed and it's still up to the buyer to notice at the time, otherwise that's perfectly legal?

4 hours ago, Grangur said:

What's dodgy? So he saw it with 2 different pups and he liked and bought it. Nothing dodgy in that. Ok so he didn't notice the pups.

If you sell a car, do you go round with each buyer and point out the stone chips?

That doesn't work as an analogy - you're talking about minor accidental cosmetic damage (which I definitely do point out when selling an instrument) but it's actually a deliberate swap of a key component to something else.

Just sharing this info that I've found while researching this - you can buy a Professional neck and a Player bass and the combined price is still cheaper than a Professional bass.

Obviously there is a lot more to the bass than the neck but if the neck shape or feel, fret style, lack of graphite rods or the fretboard material are any of the things swinging your decision it's something to think about.

For me it's a very useful option because if I got a Player but after a while got annoyed about the square edges I could chance the neck and not feel like I wasted a lot of money.

I do really like the idea of the fluted tuners as well though - anyone got one to comment on them? As much as I like them in theory, I don't know if I currently have a problem that they would solve.

8 minutes ago, Trueno said:

I took a punt on the pau ferro, it actually has some very nice figuring on it. I'm not that analytical to notice differences in feel and tone between the two... maple... yes.

I've had MIA, MIM, CIJ and Squiers. To me, the difference in quality (and materials) has generally been commensurate with the price. My MIA Jazz was fantastic quality... but I was moving on to short scale for various reasons.

I'm currently very happy with Squier and MIM and there is always to option to swap out electronics and pickups... if the basic quality is worth it.

For me it's nothing to do with feel or tone - even with rosewood vs maple - it's just the look. The pau ferro is a lot lighter and has a kind of orange tint to it. The Player precision with the orange body actually looks quite good with the pau ferro, which makes sense, but I had decided on black with maple for looks. Now you've reminded me about the possibility of rounding the edges on a pau ferro board though I might have to think about it.

I think I'll try out the Player and if the square edges bother me then I can look at the option of getting a pau ferro/orange bass and round it myself rather than having to pay an extra grand for that feature. So I'm very glad you brought it up - cheers!

That looks great.

You've been gifted the opportunity to judge the sound of the pickups honestly without any bias from prejudice you'd have if you knew what they were.

That's something that few people get.

2 minutes ago, Trueno said:

I wouldn't have done it on my MIA Jazz with maple board (and didn't need to). Done it on MIM Pau Ferro board and Squier Rosewood.

Ah yeah if they still did rosewood on the Mexicans I'd genuinely consider that in order to do the edge roll thing but I just don't like pau ferro.

There's a good chance this won't be an issue even if the Player doesn't have the rolled edges - on 6 string guitar it's a total deal breaker for me but I hold the bass neck differently so hopefully it won't even be an issue for bass, I'll just need to wait til I try the Player to see (unless anyone has the info that either the Player does have rolled edges or the Professional basses don't).

21 minutes ago, Trueno said:

No... it really is easy to do it yourself and not with that silly rolling a pen up and down thing... as long as the neck isn't finished in any way.

Just sand it down lightly with a very fine wet and dry block... over the fret ends as well and it it polishes them off as well. Polish with some fine wire wool and give the fretboard some lemon oil for good measure.

I've done it with my current two basses... they've both got a lovely smoothed finish.

The key point being "as long as the neck isn't finished" but when you buy a Fender bass the neck is finished, hence the problem.

Something that makes the lack of a Fender model even stranger, in a way, is that until recently they sold the old style neck (i.e. with the Tele shaped headstock) as a spare part but not a body with the old style pickup. The neck is still available in some shops.

2 hours ago, Geek99 said:

It’s not hard to do it yourself

It is actually, contrary to what some people believe.

Some people run something up and down it to squash the edges in - this isn't the same thing and I wouldn't do that to an instrument.

To actually round it once it's finished, you'd have to file each section between each fret, re-finish it (or leave the edges unfinished) and even then it would be wonky at the frets. Would take a lot of work and still wouldn't be like if it was rounded before it was fretted and finished.

Trust me, I spent a lot of time researching the possibility of doing it to try and avoid spending £550 on an American Strat neck.

Does anyone know if the basses are same as the guitars with regards that the American ones have a rounded fretboard edge while the Mexican ones don't?

26 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

If you’re worried about the price then get a Player series and upgrade the bits that need doing (if you feel they need doing!)

The Player basses are just fantastic and not worth getting into debt for or regretting your purchase.

I’d suggest buying in a shop. Last time I got a generous discount on a case and a new set of strings (and the factory strings are rubbish!).

 

Don't get me started on cases

I think that if the only differences were the specs on paper I'd defo go with the Player but it's the other things that aren't "specs" that leave me undecided.

7 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

If you're happy for people to collect them from your home of course. Anyhow, enough has been said and our opinions differ. As I said first off I completely understand it from the other perspective but for me the context of a premium product changes things.

Anyhow I'd love to hear more about the US and MIM Fenders as I am seriously considering pushing the button this summer. 

Good point, the thread got a bit side tracked.

At the moment it's a difficult one for me cause the Pro is definitely better across most of the board but it's just that the price is so much higher that I'm like come on Fender.

If it was a grand I'd easily justify it.

6 hours ago, skej21 said:

There’s no pleasing some people. It’s like complaining your new car comes with tyres as part of a ‘bundle’ when 1 in 50 customers kept a perfectly good set in the garage from the old car...

Appreciate the specs tables so thanks for that.

No need to get silly though.

7 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Depends how the product is costed though doesn't it and what assumptions are made over how many want shipping vs how many don't. Maybe she loses out every time she ships? But you don't know that your default is to resort to talk of being ripped off without thinking. 

Well I'm only going by what you said, not anything else about that specific person.

If someone has worked out a cost for the product itself then found out how much the shipping cost is but then decides to just add that on to the price anyway then anyone who doesn't get it delivered is paying for something they're not getting.

What you're saying still just comes down to seeing the case as an added extra vs seeing it as a bundle (which is the reality).

You'd be annoyed if it didn't come with a case because that would mean the guitar itself was even more expensive. But if it wasn't bundled with the case then it would be cheaper and you could buy the case if you wanted one.

The idea of it leading to other things not being included like the truss rod adjuster is the slippery slope fallacy. And there are already fender models that don't come with a case but of course do come with an allen key for the truss rod.

The comparison to the shipping is a different story - if the person only offers shipping then no one can just choose not to have that, they have to get it shipped, it's not an optional extra. If they also allow the customer to pick it up then they're ripping those customers off cause they're not even getting it despite paying for it.

In short, it's just whether you see the guitar itself as being that price and the case being a free extra (what fender wants you to think) or whether you see the reality that everyone is paying for that case whether they want it or not.

I don't see how anyone who understands they're paying for the case would think it's a good thing for it to be bundled because if it wasn't and they wanted it they could just buy it and the people who don't want it don't have to.

9 minutes ago, la bam said:

I've just got a player today. The comparison to the old usa standard is spot on. I had a 1995ish usa standard and this feels pretty much the same in build quality, finish and looks. The standard (if I remember correctly) was slightly heavier and thicker neck, but the quality and attention to detail is at first look the same.

Personally i couldnt justify the extra £1000 for the new US but I can understand why some people would.

I had a fsr Japanese black and gold precision which was lovely, but I'd say the finish and build is better on the player. Just feels more substantial. Whereas the Japanese fsr was a high quality machine, but lighter to hold.

Glad to hear fender have upped their game all round.

If the Player is like an American Standard then that's mind blowing value.

I know that on guitars, one big difference between the American models and the Mexican models (the Professional, Player and respective Standards all included) is that the American ones have the edges of the fingerboard rounded while the Mexicans don't. Is it the same for the basses?

I don't think it really bothers me on bass much since I hold a bass neck in a different way than I hold a guitar neck when playing chords; for guitars I just don't like the non-rounded edges and would (and do) pay a lot extra even just for that difference.

One thing I should have mentioned is that if I go for a Player it will be a maple fingerboard I go for. I know that a big difference between the two is that the other option for fingerboards is rosewood on the Pro and pau ferro on the Player and I personally don't like the colour of the latter so would be going maple which takes away that difference.

On 24/06/2020 at 13:32, Eldon Tyrell said:

I agree. You have to check them out in a store, side by side and then go for one or the other. Only then you will know whether or not the US model is worth the extra money for you. For me personally, the feel of the neck is the most important criterion. It either feels right or it does not. In the past, I bought basses and told myself that I would get used to the neck but that did not happen and I sold these basses (including a 2018 Professional P bass that has a 63 neck, which I did not like). All the other things (tuners, bridge, pickups) can be replaced easier than the neck. 

That is what I did with a Strat I bought last year - I went to the shop and tried the Player and Pro side by side and didn't actually like either neck so ended up getting the Player then ordering one of the old American Standard necks online and swapped it.

I will definitely try both the basses out too when the shops open again but I believe that judging them in a shop like that is only part of the decision process, I wouldn't make my whole decision based on that. There will be things I don't notice at the time (once bought a Gibson that seemed great in the shop only to then find some bad wood problems after playing it for a lot longer at home after a week or two).

The tuners on the Professional seem very appealing to me, I love the idea of them being tapered to force the strings down. They can be purchased separately though. The pickups don't really come in to it much for me, there's a chance I'd change either.

I think one of the main things I wish I knew is something that is a bit of a mystery to the general public and something a lot of people make very different guesses about, and that's whether the actual pieces of wood that make the body and the neck are any higher quality on the American Professional. I've heard people say they believe they are and I've heard the opposite but I've never really heard from a definite reliable source which is true. I'd guess that even if they're no different, Fender would like there to be the belief that there is.

I think if I take the price of the American Pro, take away what the case would cost, take away the extra labour cost for it being American made and take away something for the prestige that people will pay for American then I can compare that to the price of the Player and have a more realistic comparison. That way I can decide if the real differences are worth paying all the extra for.

On 24/06/2020 at 13:06, Lozz196 said:

The Professionals are better, but not sure if nearly £1000 better. You can get better tuners/replacement pickups/bridge for £300 - at that point the only thing you can’t do is graphite rods in the neck. I’d buy a Professional used, but not new.

Aye that is one of the main things that jumped out at me on the specs - something that can't just be bought separately and added in.

On the other hand though, while on paper it is definitely an improvement versus not having the graphite rode, but with most basses not having them and there not really being any problems - as far as I'm aware all the sought-after vintage basses don't have this - I wonder if it's almost a redundant upgrade fixing a problem that isn't really a problem?

Maybe I'm mistaken about its purpose, is it to stop the neck bowing as much with temperature and time etc.?

On 24/06/2020 at 07:34, Burns-bass said:

Oh, and it comes with a superb moulded case too.

Seeing the case as an added bonus is one way to look at it.

I see it more as a shame that the Am Pro model only comes as a bundle with the case; i.e. they will have added the cost of the case in to the total price and, as I already have a very good gig bag and a very good hard case, would be paying that extra for something I don't want.

2 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

I am in the middle of a build, it’s actually not that much of a hassle, just patience is required. I sourced everything second hand and traded etc (aside from paint) very satisfying and I will get exactly what I want

Wish I had the patience for a paint job.

Nice one mate.

Don't have the dough right now but I think possibly getting one of these second hand in the future will be the answer.

The American Professional models are clearly better than the equivalent Player model and has a lot of little things making it better.

But the price difference is just mind blowing, it's like three times the price. It's not that I'm against paying that much for a bass, it's just that it's so much extra money when the products are so similar at core.

Is there anyone who finds the extra money reasonable for the extras you get and could fill me in on what I'm overlooking?

Obviously there is the fact that American labour is more expensive than Mexican but, as that doesn't benefit the buyer any, I'm wondering how much of the extra money is due to that.

Cheers man, very much appreciate the links.

I did think of building from parts but the few bodies I could find didn't appeal to me and every time I think of painting my own I look up how to do it and remember what a massive pullava it seems.

Not think it's strange that there's a Squier model but no Fender branded?

Since I've been playing bass there hasn't been a Fender one either, I wonder how long ago there was one.

I just find it surprising that there's a Squier model that is unique in the range without a more expensive equivalent. Would expect maybe a Vintera 50s bass with the single coil.

Anyone else find it a bit strange that there's a Squier single coil P (as in, not split coil) but not a Fender one available apart from extremely expensive custom shop models?

When was the last time there was one as a normal Fender model?

Anyone know of one from another brand in the 500-1500 range?