Belka

47 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Nope, not at all mistaken. I heard WYWH first and it blew my mind, completely changed my life. Dark Side was something of a disappointment after that. In fact DS is not even my second favourite. Not entirely sure it’s even third!😉

You're both mistaken. Meddle is the best, although unlike any of their later work it doesn't have the concepts running through it. I think the Wall and Animals are ok overall and brilliant in places, but when Rick Wright checked out they were missing a key musical ingredient. 

Just my opinion of course.

Demis Roussos - not a lot of people know he played bass. Or that he was in a progressive rock band (Aprodite's Child) before becoming a '70s suburban housewife staple.

1 hour ago, 4000 said:

That’s lovely, but not that difficult to do for any decent luthier; I’d expect stuff like that from any of the top builders and many of the smaller ones (Everson springs to mind). There are many builders working to that level of craftsmanship and even beyond, these days. I’ve sat and watched  quite a few great builders making instruments and have spent many, many hours in Sei HQ watching what they do. 

The price of used Wals really sky-rocketed when they became unobtainable new. Then when they became available new again, IMO the bar was kind of set. Well, that and Tool. 😉

But hey, if you’ve got the money and only a Wal will do, then go for it. 😁 They are very nice basses, undoubtedly, and I’d still like another. 

One thing that I’ve found interesting, I’ve seen one or two people over the years who have kind of retired their Wals (too valuable etc) in favour of Stingrays, or who have played both side by side. I’ve never been able to get anything like a Wal Sound from a Ray, so I’d be interested to hear other people’s experiences. Maybe I’ve been doing something wrong.😉 😂

 

I remember reading copies of Bass guitar back in the '90s. You would see used Wals in the classifieds for under £1000 all the time. Yes, they became unobtainable new around the time the whole Tool thing took off; back in the '90s they were just basses rooted firmly in the 1980s, and were no more sought after than Jaydees and so prices were similar. I used to see them at pub gigs all the time back then. 

However, those electronics are unique and if you want that sound I feel too that nothing else will do. Also, with a waiting list like they have, they have no choice but to ask high prices. If they came down to even around the £3000 mark they would be inundated with orders and would either have to outsource production or see the waiting time for a build stretch even further into the future. Also, if you do spend money on a Wal, new or used and don't like it, you won't lose any money if you sell it on (although who knows what COVID might do to the market).  @CamdenRob , your bass looks great; sure it sounds great too.

7 hours ago, DiMarco said:

So what do you make of this @Belka?

Looks like Fodera pickups and tuning mechanisms. The sprayed logo and cheap looking body are yelling FAKE though.
Also, it was advertised as a carbon neck. The neck looks more like a carbon color lacquered neck to me though.

Thoughts?

No idea. I'd guess it's probably real but has been refinished by an owner or perhaps the Japanese shop.The body doesn't look cheap to me, it doesn't have the neck heel carve but not all of them did. I just don't think the finish is particularly attractive.

 I don't think it's a carbon fibre neck either, just carbon effect lacquer as you say. 

I honestly don't think anyone would fake an NYC. Contrary to what some people believe, the vast majority of Fodera copies are poorly executed Chinese jobs that no-one would ever confuse with the real thing. If someone had access to Fodera pickups/hardware and the luthiery skills and wanted to fake a bass they'd probably do a custom, not an NYC, as they could charge a lot more money for it. 

So, it's almost certainly the real thing, with an unconventional refinish. The pickups with the Fodera butterfly on them are Lane Poors. 

Couple of pictures to show what I mean. Here's one with the dual coils, and an early looking 4 string with the Schaller roller bridge and what look like Lane Poor pickups. There are probably quite a few exceptions to the standard and custom specs.

3 hours ago, DiMarco said:

Okay so what we have established so far

Good stuff and a good summary. Sorry to be a pedant, but I might just comment on a few of these:

• The N.Y.C. series came to be in 1993, when Grunge was also a thing. 

Yep.

• They are made from properly dried and often beautiful Fodera owned wood, wherever that may have been stacked to dry.

Apparently so.

• Assembly, fretwork, electronics and hardware was applied in Brooklyn, NY by the boys at Fodera.

That's what they say.

• There are four different versions in total, and of these versions there's mainly ash body+maple fingerboard with 70's pickup placement and alder body+rosewood fingerboard with 60's pickup placement copies, although different variations may exist. The versions are 21 fret standard, 21 fret deluxe, 24 fret standard, 24 fret deluxe.

Yep.

• The Deluxe have angled pegheads, Fodera brass bridges, three piece maple necks, natural, sunburst or custom transparent colour finishes.

Yes, although this info is true about the later editions, I'd imagine that between 1993-2010 there was quite a bit of crossover. I've seen Schaller roller bridges on early models.

• Standards have flat pegheads, Gotoh brass bridges, one piece maple necks, classic opaque colour finishes.

See above

• All have a three band Pope pre onboard and by default Fodera designed Seymour Duncan pickups, sometimes Aero's instead.

I think this is a typo in Fodera's advertising; I'm sure I heard it's a two band with a passive tone. Let us know when you receive your bass.

There are probably some NYC basses with Aeros installed, either by accident or design. Back in the day they would get them mixed up ; guys who ordered Duncans would have their bass arrive with Aeros, and vice versa.. 

• Japan is indeed a country.
• Woodwork on the N.Y.C. series which funny enough is not named the Kimono series was certainly done in Japan, even though Fodera themselves do not seem to feel like talking about this much.
• The N.Y.C. weighs more then a Sadowsky Metroline does.

Most Foderas are fairly hefty. They believe it adds to the tone. You'll find the Pope preamp is actually pretty transparent and what you hear is the sound of the wood/strings/pickups. With Sadowsky I think the preamp is an essential part of the recipe.

• Fodera is the Italian word for lining.

I think it means moth/butterfly in the Sicilian dialect, hence the butterflies.

• Belka knows stuff.

Been a fan boy since around 2005.

• Some N.Y.C. Empire basses are very sexy.

Yes. Yes, they are.

Couple of pictures to show what I mean. Here's one with the dual coils, and an early looking 4 string with the Schaller roller bridge and what look like Lane Poor pickups. There are probably quite a few exceptions to the standard and custom soecs.

 

10 hours ago, DiMarco said:

Aha, so that basically would make them the Fodera equivalent of Sadowsky's MetroLine series (from before Warwick started manufacturing them).
Less options, far more friendly priced and still very good instruments.

Somehow though, I find it hard to cope with the idea of sending wood from the US to Japan to have it worked on and then send it back to have hardware, frets and electronics installed. More logical would be to purchase quantities of wood and have parts of it sent straight to both Japan and the US. The key thing here is what's "our aged stock" supposed to mean.

How much it all matters I don't really know, they are fine instruments no doubt. Just a lot of noise about the subject exists online.

Yes, sending the wood there and back does sound odd, and I'm sure there is plenty of high quality wood in Japan, but Fodera take their wood stock very seriously (I've actually seen it) and I have no reason to doubt them. They inspect and select, and age all the wood they buy so purchasing and shipping directly to Japan wouldn't be an option. Back when the NYCs were being made, their shop was a lot smaller than it is now, with maybe only 4 or 5 people building there, and they had horrendous (2-3 year) waiting times for instruments, so it made sense to build them separately I suppose. 

As far as I remember the deal was this: Fodera would send some woods to a custom shop in Japan. The same shop also had some links with F Clef and Bottomwave early on, but apparently in later years they were only building Fodera NYCs. The actual NYC model was designed (or more like refined, as it's basically a Jazz clone) by Vinnie Fodera, and the Japanese luthiers in question were trained at the Fodera shop. When the bodies and necks were carved, they would send then back to Brooklyn where Fodera would install the hardware, pickups and electronics, inspect the fit and finish and do the final setups.

They mostly have Seymour Duncan Jazz pickups (probably the same models that go into the customs), although some seem to have dual coils, which I presume would also be Seymour Duncans from the custom series and would almost certainly have been an upcharge. They had a two band version of the Pope preamp.

They seem to mostly be ash body/maple fingerboard and '70s pickup spacing, or alder body/rosewood fingerboard and '60s pickup spacing.

They made both 4 and 5 string versions but the 5 strings seem to be more common.They are fine basses, although at that price point they were competing with Sadowsky, Mike Lull and the Fender custom shop.  Victor does indeed have one. Also, I believe that Jamareo Artis played one on the recording of Uptown Funk, so no arguments about how good they sound in a track

The two biggest overrated offenders for me would have to be Pearl Jam and to a lesser extent the Foo Fighters. This is not simply because I don't like them; there are a few bands/artists who, while I personally do not enjoy their music (The Spice Girls, The Pogues, Free, Soundgarden, The Mavericks and Nickelback to name an eclectic few), I can at least appreciate why others would enjoy them. It's also not a genre thing, I happen to think Nirvana were brilliant writers and I like lots of alternative rock. But they're just so boring. The melodies, harmonies and dynamics are not necessarily bad, they're just complete cardboard. Utterly dull. The fog-grey 2005 Ford Mondeo of music. Serious music for people who don't really like music. 

In terms of underrated, rather than going for obscure acts whose lack of success eludes me, I would rather mention popular writer who are often dismissed as lightweight. Abba, Gary Barlow, Nick Kershaw, all are extremely skilled writers who craft great music. Take That's Everything Changes has more melodic and harmonic interest than Pearl Jam's entire back catalogue. 

I'm not the only one who seems to think so:

https://www.laweekly.com/pearl-jam-are-the-most-boring-band-in-20-years/

That's lovely. YOB for me. If it wasn't for this lockdown... If it's still around when things get back to normal I'll be sure to hit you up, but GLWTS at this point.

I don't suppose you're interested in partial trades by the way?

On 23/04/2020 at 10:10, chris_b said:

I agree. I really don't like Wilton Felder's bass sound, but as an A list LA session guy he must have been doing something right! Also I believe he used Precisions in the studio.

I guess it's the transistor radio/Dansette record player/car radio thing. The bass had to have a hard sound and be played up the neck in order to be heard, which is also why many players used picks on sessions. This sound is then softened a little in the final mix. These days most of us listen to our music on better players so the way the tracks are mixed has changed, and IMO improved.

Listen to I Want You Back, as it was released and they've mixed most of the "ponk" out and the bass sits shoulder to shoulder to the rest of the instruments. A good producer will listen to the track not the individual instruments.

I'm sure he played a Telecaster bass on this track, or perhaps an early single coil precision. It's not a split coil precision to my ears anyway. It also sounds like the tone control is wide open - I remember reading that Motown bassists would record like that, but the engineers/producers processed the sound the treble got rolled off Jamerson himself said something about it being better to be able to take treble away from a bright sound during mixing than having a signal you would have to add to later (I'm sure someone else could quote him better). These days people trying to get that '60s Motown vibe just keep their town all the way down. 

Elites. I hated them in the '90s when I first tried them. Picked up a set to try again recently and still couldn't stand them. Can't really say I've disliked any other sets, although I don't like steels with brighter sounding basses. 

Lovely bass - if it's still around in a month or so (when money will allow) would be very interested. Can I ask one thing - is that an olympic white or see-through blond finish? I'm guessing olympic white was a much more common colour in the late '70s, but on your bass you can see the wood grain under the finish, and it also looks darker where the ashtrays were: on most olympic white finishes you would expect it to be lighter under the ashtrays. If it is factory original see-through blond it must be a pretty rare example - I can't recall seeing any others. 

That's a cracking deal. Vintage/Custom Shop specs for MIM money. If I had the ready cash I would jump on this. Good luck with the sale!

3 minutes ago, mrbassman_de said:

Nice. Without the matching headstock it should be a translucent Blonde finish with Ash body. But it does not look translucent in the pics... And the white finish marks on the neck end are not common. 

So, do you have any detail pics of the neck pocket or the nail holes to verify the finish is original ? And could you measure the body thickness ?

Of course the pickup coils and bobbins are interesting too. At this price range much more evidence about all the parts would help. Just my 2c.

 

I'm not sure you're right about that.  I don't think 60s Jazz basses were ever made in ash or in translucent blonde finishes. Alder in olympic white is perfectly normal for a 60s Jazz even without a matching headstock. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't a refin, but even if it is, it looks like a very old one. That pickguard definitely looks aftermarket though - very modern looking.

If it's a rare or vintage instrument, especially one which is prone to headstock breakages (vintage Gibsons) the financial impact would be less (perhaps even minimal on something like a '52-'60 Gibson), providing the repair has been professionally done. On anything else I'd probably say at least 40%. I have a bass with a broken headstock, albeit professionally repaired, and I wouldn't even bother trying to sell it; the hassle of explaining the break and how it's been repaired and the money off I'd be willing to take a hit on means that any sale is just not worth my while. 

On 20/05/2019 at 16:56, BigRedX said:

Because it doesn't really matter.

It would definitely matter if ever he needed to take it or sell it abroad due to CITES regulations on rosewood.

I used them for a bit in the 1990s and thought they were ok. I've got a set which is a bout 20 years old on an old fretless and they still have just a bit of brightness left. They were certainly better than the short-lived Trace Elliot strings which died completely within a week,  and infinitely better than Elites, which I found to be my least favourite strings of all time. After trying out LaBella, Fender, Fodera and D'Addario in recent years I've settled on D'Addario nickels. As imported brands go, they're not too expensive, they last a long time, the B strings are firm, and they sound really good. It's all subjective though - I'm sure there are players out there who hate D'Addario and make Elites sound great.  

That's a great price for this bass - if I didn't have so many expenses at the moment I'd seriously consider it. If it's still around in Spring....

The only thing you can really do if you want to truly keep your input stage passive is get a more powerful amp. A clean boost/preamp/equalizer pedal will help with output but will also add hiss and may affect your tone just like an active preamp would. Essentially they are nothing more than active preamps, but in a pedal rather than onboard your bass.  If you don't want to get a more powerful amp then I would look into fitting a Bartolini preamp to the bass. As active preamps go, they are very quiet (although not as quiet as passive electronics) and they complement the tone of Bartolini pickups very well. They also have an active/passive switch which you could use if you DI the bass to keep it passive. 

The white pickguard definitely looks original. By the late '70s the only basses that you really saw with white pickguards were in natural, so I'd guess this bass was that originally. 

I recently moved back to the UK after a long time abroad (non EU country) with basses I'd purchased abroad and just walked through the green channel with no questions asked. I didn't do this deliberately, I had owned them for a minimum of two years and so didn't even think of them as purchases that needed to be declared. If I had gone abroad to buy them I would have declared them. As for rosewood, you can take one bass back from the US with you if belongs to you (and it will be your bass if you buy it, obviously). It's when you send them abroad/import from abroad that you need a CITES cert. If it's Brazilian rosewood however you will need a CITES cert to take it out of the States/bring it to the UK as I think it's in a different category to other rosewood types. 

Pm’ed

He was great in Jamiroqaui. He is just very talented to be able to do what he did after playing for so short a time. He also said that he doesn't really practice (by himself, I'm sure he does practice with the bands he's been in).

By the way, was the identity of Mr X (who played on the album version of Return of the Space Cowboy, Zender played on the single) ever established? Anyone here in the know?

I've wondered about the authenticity of some vintage guitars for years. A skilled luthier who knows a lot about vintage guitars could pretty much fake anything, but I guess to make it worth the scammer's while they would stick to the really high dollar stuff like '50s Gibsons and pre-CBS Fender. 

Strangely enough, I would imagine it's easier to fake a '50s Les Paul than it would be to do a '60s Fender. Laminate (non slab) Brazilian rosewood necks would have to be done as one-offs and aside from Spitfire, it's almost impossible to come up with tortoiseshell that looks vintage. I guess that's more of an incentive to fake slab board custom colour Fenders with white/mint guards which would claim a higher price anyway.