Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

TrevorR

Member
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    2,541

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

 Content Type 

Posts posted by TrevorR

    Do you think the thickness of a bass neck affects tone? How?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I hate to be a huge self publicist and quote myself but...

    [quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1473865731' post='3133690']


    ...You can conceive of an experiment to test this where a bass is rigidly mounted in a jig and tested repeatedly while mass is sequentially shaved off the neck. But there is no reason to believe that the resultant effect on the overall frequency response of the output would be linear. In fact it's much more likely that different frequencies would increase and decrease at different rates as the complex vibrational reflections and resonances caused the equivalent of diffusion fringes within the bass.

    The answer to the first half of the question is relatively straightforward, the second half very complex.
    [/quote]
    [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1473948040' post='3134421']

    It could be that simply removing and replacing the same neck will change the sound of the instrument if you don't put it back on exactly how it was before.
    [/quote]
    [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1473948140' post='3134425']

    Even if you did this, the only thing it would show is how altering the thickness of that particular neck attached to that particular instrument at that moment in time alters the sound.
    [/quote]

    But of course that's right, but repeated experiments across different necks, bodies etc would allow you to assess whether any consistent patterns emerged across the range of tests... Not that I can imagine anyone actually carrying out these experiments. But then again, it could be perfect IgNobel Prize fodder!

    Do you think the thickness of a bass neck affects tone? How?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by TrevorR

    [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1473857906' post='3133607']


    But how can you tell that those differences are down to the thickness of the neck and not to the multitude of other variables that exit between two instruments (ignoring the fact that 2 instruments is a far too tiny sample to have any real relevance)?

    ...and EVERY PIECE OF WOOD IS DIFFERENT, you still won't know exactly what effect the thickness of the neck actually has.
    [/quote]

    That is the kicker here... The original question was in two parts... DOES it make a difference and HOW does it make a difference. If you look at my post you'll see that I'm firmly in a Yes It Does camp - with a bit of physics to back up that reasoning. However, the second question is much more complex. A bass is a complex system and so many things will have an effect, sometimes in unpredictable ways. Just taking neck thickness, there is nothing to say that the effect is linear - Fatter neck = fatter tone. There is no reason why a fatter neck (presuming you could get theoretically comparable necks) shouldn't create resonances that cancel out lower and lower mid frequencies. Resonances are strange things.

    And then there are all the other factors that also affect vibration... String seating at the nut and bridge, neck alignment and how it is seated in the neck pocket, differences in the cellular structure of different pieces of wood etc etc etc... You can conceive of an experiment to test this where a bass is rigidly mounted in a jig and tested repeatedly while mass is sequentially shaved off the neck. But there is no reason to believe that the resultant effect on the overall frequency response of the output would be linear. In fact it's much more likely that different frequencies would increase and decrease at different rates as the complex vibrational reflections and resonances caused the equivalent of diffusion fringes within the bass.

    The answer to the first half of the question is relatively straightforward, the second half very complex.

    Guerilla Sessions...

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by TrevorR

    Here's a bit of fun... Some muso chums of mine get together every so often to do a "Guerrilla Session" of a favourite song. So far we've had Toto, Wings and this little ditty a much under-appreciated slice of pop-prog from 80s era Yes. Enjoy!

    Eagle eyed viewers may just spot Dave Marks who writes a technique column in Bassist magazine on bass and Captain America T-shirt!

    http://youtu.be/VbJBfkd-Tgs

    Do you think the thickness of a bass neck affects tone? How?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by TrevorR

    [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473773488' post='3132997']
    However, I'm really struggling to see how any of those tonal factors can be picked up by a magnetic pickup?... ...I was under the impression that the strings interrupt the magnetic field of the pickup and create the signal? So surely the characteristics of an alder body would not interrupt the magnetic field at all, let alone in a different manner to a walnut body or a mahogany body?
    [/quote]
    [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473787852' post='3133155']
    I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups?
    [/quote]
    [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473795866' post='3133234']
    I think what I'm trying to ask is, if our ears perceive 'tone' as the waveforms that an instrument produces acoustically through the combination of wood, construction, resonance, sustain etc how does this translate through a magnetic pickup which uses interference of a magnetic field to reproduce a sound?
    [/quote]

    As many have said, the fundamental tone of the bass will be largely determined by the choice of strings and the pickup and its placement. However, the mode of vibration of the strings will be heavily affected by the materials in the body and neck of the bass. This is what creates the complexities in the waveform. Often it is tempting to think that the strings just transmit vibrations into the body of the bass and that's it. Hence questions about how much those vibrations affect the pickups. That's not what is at work.

    The strings transmit a significant degree of vibrational energy into the bass. These resonate through the body and neck which causes very complex modulation of the vibrations, emphasising frequencies, reducing others etc. This will vary with the physical properties of the wood, the nature of the neck joint, the shape of the bass etc etc etc... Again, if you want to get an idea of the amount of energy transferred into the bass lean the headstock or butt of the bass against your wardrobe door while playing and you will see that there is enough energy being transferred to the door to drive it like a speaker.

    How the body woods affect the tone is that every bit as much as the strings are transmitting vibrations into the body and neck, the neck and body are also driving their modulated vibrations back into the strings through the nut and bridge. That increases the complexity of the waveform in the string (otherwise, why wouldn't the string generate a relatively simple sine wave tone?). This vibrational interplay continues back and forth, creating the particular timbre of the bass which it then picked up from the modulated string movement by the pickup - whether a magnetic pickup or transducer.

    Now, you might argue that these resonances wouldn't be strong enough to hear. However, that underestimates the potential strength which resonances can create. Real world examples are manifold... A soprano breaking a wine glass with a resonant high note or a glass harp. Sympathetic vibrations between pendulums. Or most spectacularly, the Tahoma Narrows Bridge collapse. This famous video shows how when the vibration of the cables on a suspension bridge caused by a light wind blowing are transmitted into the body of the bridge, resonate within the bridge, and are then transferred back into the cables at a resonant frequency, increasing the amplitude of their vibration. This continues until a runaway resonant feedback makes the whole bridge twist and buck until the bridge literally rips itself apart. The force involved was merely a light breeze blowing across the suspension cables (as I recall the wind speed was only 15 or 20 mph -hardly a raging gale). But it has a really noticeable effect on the bridge.

    For me that shows that it's entirely possible that all the various elements in a bass will audibly contribute to the sound it makes to one degree or another. The neck and body are some of the most major components and their contribution can't simply be dismissed as minimal.

    6 Nations - which songs for which fans?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    You could do a Dame Kiri and top it off with World in Union.

    Scotland... 500 miles... Natch, what else could it be?
    Ireland... Any Thin Lizzy esp Whiskey in the Jar
    Wales... Some Manics or as others have said, Tom Jones
    Italy... It's Now or Never but include one verse as "O solé meo" and another of "Just one Cornetto"
    France... Tricky... Je Ne Regrette Rien? She? Michelle? Les Miserables medley? Joe Le Taxi? Si Si, Je Suis Un Rock Star?... getting a bit desperate now...

    Recommend me an affordable 4 string acoustic

    in Bass Guitars

    Posted · Edited by TrevorR

    A year or so ago I spend an afternoon in Andertons trying all their acoustic basses. The cream of the crop £500ish price bracket was a Faith Titan Neptune bass which I took home with me that afternoon. Felt much nice to me than the Takamine which I did not like at all.

    Very simple but effective Shadow pickup and tone system. All round lovely bass. Plays great and sounds great both acoustically and plugged in. Came with the case...







    What's the biggest gig you have played?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I stuck in Up To 1k. Played a pretty full Greenbelt festival big top and some heaving smaller tents when I was in a folk rock band back after uni. Since played to some big charity events at Ascot Racecourse, local festivals and the like as part of the Ents for the day. No idea how many were there at each, or how many were listening.

    learning two finger right-hand technique (currently play one finger)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1473021470' post='3126202']
    I do have one tip - pay attention to your timing when using two. I found I drop into swing when starting with index, but I'm solid if I start with middle.
    [/quote]

    This is a great tip. My bass tutor (back when I was having lessons) always recommended leading with your middle finger rather than the index for just this reason. For some reason I don't understand it also helps make the tone more consistent across the two.

    Also, you can't beat simple exercises to a metronome... Straight 8ths and 16ths on one note. On a simple bass line or scale. Across the strings. All part of making it second nature and developing muscle memory.

    Then you can start looking at rhythms and breaking the rule where you throw in a few double or triple beats on the index finger between alternate picking.

    None of it is rocket science!

    Markbass Mark Stand - Worth the money?

    in Amps and Cabs

    Posted

    [quote name='sratas' timestamp='1472794409' post='3124258']
    For a combo it's a really smart tool, and gives some sense to the amp carpeting. It does it's job brilliantly, it's stable, and this way the amp looses little to nothing because it still couples with floor. It's light, it's portable and foldable. It's pricey but you pay fir the idea and for it's use.
    With two cabs stacked I can imagine putting it between the two to raise and angoe the top one only...perfect for little one driver cabs
    [/quote]
    [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1473027924' post='3126294']
    I've had several over the years. If you like gigging lite, like I do, it's a whole lot easier to haul than a tubular amp stand. Works well and will angle a cab so you can hear it on stage and not just have it firing at your ankles.

    You pay for the design, efficiency and portability. How much the raw materials cost is irrelevant, IMHO. It is a Markbass product after all...
    [/quote]

    I'd agree. I've used mine with my Traveler cabs and it works a treat. Simple and effective if, as others have said, a bit overpriced for what it is. Used it with the 2x10 in both short/fat and tall/thin configurations. I've got the amp case which is Velcro'd so that solves the stability problem on the leaning cab.



    Would you be interested in a Gibson Bass Book?

    in Bass Guitars

    Posted

    The design looks very nice. Though I'd have been tempted to go for a marginally wider line spacing or a lighter font for the body text. Just to make the look a little less dense and easier on the eye. Gibsons aren't a bass that particularly interests me but if the retail was £15-20 I'd also be interested. It would certainly go on my Christmas list.

    How are you planning to publish it? Get a short run published or go for a POD service? The latter may be more practical for this type of project. I've often wondered if I should do a similar book on the Wal bass, especially given the level of geekery I display about the brand.

×
×
  • Create New...