tegs07

Back in the day I would pay to see the hamsters frequently even though plenty of other middle aged blokes were playing blues/ rock for free in pubs. I would even drive miles after work. The Hamsters had an audience and made a living playing pubs and bike shows etc as they were better than the amateurs. The vast amount of people playing pubs won’t make a living playing their music. I don’t feel this is down to the competition playing for free.

If they really want to see you they will be willing to pay. If they aren’t willing to pay then it’s not because another band is playing for free. It doesn’t work like that.

To have a market you need a willing consumer. You can’t force people to pay for something they don’t need or want. I don’t need an average pub band and plenty of times I don’t want one either.

Nobody needs music. They chose it. Artists that are good enough to make a living from music will do so. People doing it for free won’t take anything from them as they are simply good enough to get paid for what they do. I don’t think it can be compared to other market activities unless you compare qualified plumbers, electricians or decorators with DIY folk.

I don’t believe this for a moment. I am happy to pay for decent live music from artists that connect with an audience and have something special. These artists find an audience and they do so from hard graft and something I don’t have or really understand. They will always outshine the talented amateur that plays for free. The sad reality is they are rare. Really rare. Making a living from original material is really hard and few have the qualities to do so no matter how gifted they may be. Music as with photography or literature is really hard to make money from. I know countless gifted painters and photographers. I don’t know any that make a living from their original art though.I do know several that have managed to find ways of making a living by being creative with the talent they have though. Function bands, cover bands, wedding photographers, sign writers etc. A compromise maybe? Others get a career doing other work and play for fun (often for free) whenever they can.

That’s all folks. Nothing to do with Judas hobbyists. Get good. Get paid. It takes time and starts from scratch. Some go from zero to a salary. Most don’t.

The problem is I have seen hundreds of pub gig bands. Apart from very rare occasions they are crap. Even the ones that are competent musicians rarely have any material that will get them out of a pub circuit. If I had to pay I wouldn’t go and I was (less so these days) a member of a dying breed that sought out live bands playing their own material. The tradition of passing round a hat and allowing bands to sell Merchandise and cd’s is probably the only way a venue can offer some way of a band or artist getting paid if they are an unknown quantity. Very few bands at pub level playing their own tunes will attract a paying audience.

Personally I don’t expect to be paid for skills I haven’t honed nor to be given opportunities I haven’t earned. If I started a career as a musician I would expect to start at the bottom and work my way up. Pub gigs and local events are unlikely to be paid.

This is exactly the issue. In the early days I would see a lot of gigs. Most of the ones that I paid for (that had little media coverage) I had seen at various festivals (where I suspect they played for free). I saw plenty of pub bands who I would never have paid to watch as they were crap.

I’ve frequently volunteered to work for no pay as well as putting in many hours of study to get the skills required for the next step up. Any professional has to put in unpaid or very poorly paid time to get the qualifications and experience to progress. A working musician at the dog and duck is doing the plasterers apprenticeship, the TV execs runner days or the surgeons sleep deprived, gruelling junior doctor days but that’s just my opinion.

In order to progress in my current career I have put in hundreds of hours of unpaid labour over the last couple of decades. People don’t pay for practice in any industry.

Or someone in their late 40’s/early 50’s who hasn’t played in a band since their teenage years. If I were to form a band again I would expect not to get paid until I got good enough. In the same way as someone who is in an established but not particularly successful local band would play Glastonbury for free (entry to festival provided for free) or an established middling band would have their management pay or get paid beans to support a big name act on a large tour. It’s all relative to where you are in the food chain.

I think I would need to pay to get anyone to listen to me play live. As others have said though an entire line up of unpaid bands and an alcohol free bar. Throw in a vegan BBQ and you have the worst event ever. I think free support acts to a pro headline isn’t a bad way of getting exposure and experience but can’t see all the bands being unpaid as being good for musicians or audience.

Lay lady lay - Dylan

I saw them live at Brixton Academy I think. A school friend was obsessed with Wendy James and persuaded me to go in return for him going to a gig of my choice. They weren’t great but it was worth the fun of watching his face as soon as Loop (my choice) started their set a few weeks later.

Going Up To The Country, Paint My Mailbox Blue - Taj Mahal

The Queen is dead - The Smiths

Nope I’m saying what motivates and inspires you at 50 will be a bit different than what motivates and inspires you at 20. Record companies and fans to an extent may also make demands that an artist should not change or try new ideas.

Not sure if your being sarcastic or not. Of course it doesn’t matter what I like. I was only trying to illustrate that good music finds an audience. I feel for artists that get pigeon holed and are expected to conform to type throughout their career. Hard to have any musical integrity if your expected to churn out stuff year after year that may no longer be reflective of your current life experience.

Teenage kicks - undertones

I think The Cure’s first couple of albums were recorded with a pickup from a Top Twenty guitar. The record company apparently refused to let him use the guitar so he bought a Fender and swapped the pickups out.

Too Much Too Young - Specials

As an example of why labels are only really good for marketing. If I was asked if I liked heavy metal I would answer no. Yet if anyone were to browse my music collection they would find: Sabbath, Motörhead, AC/DC, Metallica, Deep Purple, Guns and Roses, Ramstein, Down, Kyuss, Tool, Machinehead et al. Am I a closet heavy metal, heavy rock or stoner rock fan and does it really matter?

Pretend we’re dead - L7