rslaing

[quote name='steve-soar' post='533437' date='Jul 5 2009, 11:26 PM']I honestly thought jazzers were cool and didn't give a f*** until this thread, maybe it's a Reagan thing.[/quote] Hello?

[quote name='Waldo' post='533406' date='Jul 5 2009, 10:53 PM']. Besides Janek uses Fender gear, according to his wiki. Which he wrote himself.[/quote] Yes, we have all used Fender stuff, and that might be a great reason why some of us don't use it now. I had the benefit of seeing the stuff come in to a major music chain that I worked for in the 70's/80's. I wouldn't use it to light a fire, it really was that bad.

[quote name='Waldo' post='533406' date='Jul 5 2009, 10:53 PM']Come on. You accuse others of being trolls and then you say stuff like this.[/quote] There is a huge difference between supporting comments from an outstanding committed and very capable musician, attempting to protect his valuable opinion, and having to read derisory comments from people who don't have a pedigree or the CV to either criticize or be judgmental. The baiting has to stop - get your brownie points somewhere else. All you are doing is getting this forum a bad name.

[quote name='gwizmon' post='533251' date='Jul 5 2009, 07:51 PM']1) BGM don't pay me for writing for the magazine, or for appearing on the cover or for interviews. 2) I do not speak on behalf of them, I speak for myself. 3) You're right about the fodera angle, I really don't know why I waste my time talking about it. 4) Waldo and BBC wouldn't know about business if it knocked on their door and asked them to go to dinner. It's always personal, petty, and entirely bitter. So, tell me..... why is it that people get offensive whenever anyone gets realistic, and have to sit back in their armchair and spurt abuse when things get slightly out of a warm and fuzzy comfort zone. BBC just disagrees with everything that is written on here wether it's me writing or anyone else with a foot vaguely in the real world of bass playing or music. So what's the point? and if Waldo's opening statement when I post here again is "Oh God.... He's back" ....... come on man, that's bul***t. I'm surprised everyone else is so passive and just puts up with it all. There is no good way to bow out. But I don't need that kind of negative crap, I don't think anyone does. It's pretty amazing that in the tens of thousands of posts from countless hundreds of people on talkbass nothing like this ever happens. why can't basschat keep it together in that respect? it's just a waste of time.[/quote] Thanks for your honest opinion. It is appreciated, and maybe "they" will take notice and start to do something about the negative contributors. Just ignore the trolls. They try to denigrate anyone who appears to have a modicum of intelligence, has any musical ability or gives a worthwhile opinion. I suppose in a forum that have a significant number of contributors, there will always be a minority who because of their possible lack of intellect/musical ability/contribution, will attempt to elevate their status in other ways - like being sensationalist. At the end of the day, your musical ability and experience overrides anything these people decide to post. And really, you don't even have to defend yourself. Your music and playing speaks for itself. It's the same people that recently derided musicians for (gasp) being able to read music.................I think that says it all. You have to realise that you are dealing with quite a few "dinosaurs" that frequent this place EDIT:_ forget to mention - if you don't own a Fender (preferably one older than your parents), this is maybe not the place to be - it's a prejudice thing

You could travel to Sunderland to have a look - it's only 9 miles from Newcastle. Problem is, most of the area doesn't have an electricity supply yet, and there aren't any decent shops (music or otherwise). But there is a zoo. It's called "The Bridges" and it is a shopping centre.

[quote name='rmorris' post='532607' date='Jul 4 2009, 08:00 PM']But you can't avoid the fact that, all other things being equal, a lower action allows less string excursion before fret buzz sets in and so the dynamic range of 'clean' playing is reduced.[/quote] Not really. Play with a softer touch, turn your amp up, and adjust your right hand technique (if you are right handed of course). [quote]And a certain level of excursion is generally required to get a balanced tone from the note / attack although that's very sound dependent.[/quote] The sound produced from the "attack" is not down to the amount of force applied. If you can play in a semi-staccato manner by having a good enough technique between your fretting and plucking hand, you can get a very effective tone. Watch the players who have a pronounced tone - they all play near the bridge to get the punchy sound that cuts through the rest of the band. The string excursion is reduced the closer you play to the bridge - you also get more control and less "noise". [quote]I believe Jamerson had a high action and flatwounds and wanted no fret click / buzz noise.[/quote] Jamerson was an ex double bass jazz player, and really didn't care about his bass setup. Most basses at the time had poor setups, I know, I played a few. And most bass guitarists also doubled on double bass, so a high action on a guitar did not trouble them. Indeed, a lot of the players I knew at the time actually set their bass guitars up with as high an action as possible so that the switch over from double bass was not so dramatic. And in the last 40 years since he was binned by most of the studios because he wouldn't modernize his sound and style, and started his fall into obscurity, bass guitars and amplification have improved dramatically. So why not take advantage of the improvements? If anyone would care to watch the Sadowsky video that was kindly introduced in the earlier thread, the problems that are encountered and the solutions to those problems are well covered (if you have an hour to spare). As I suggested, all of the renowned players with good technique and specialist basses seem to have very low actions on their instruments. The Fender players seem to have a higher action - and perhaps it is necessary for an instrument that has not (in the case of a precision or a jazz) been fundamentally changed for 50 years and is needed because of a steep radius on the neck, an average scale length and low break angle at the nut and bridge. Anyway, does it really matter? The owner of an instrument that he likes is always going to justify it's "superiority" - until he finds something better. The really important matter is the notes the player gets out of it, and that he can produce the notes with an economy of effort. Anything else can be sorted out either in the studio, or by a good sound engineer in a live situation. I have rarely heard any player, in a live situation, sound like he did on the album anyway.

Yes, the old adage of "you only get what you pay for" for is very true, and only people who will dispute this are the people who don't own boutique basses. I own loads of basses, and the best ones are "boutique". End of........... EDIT:- I am talking mainly about any instrument that isn't a product of a non musician on an assembly line that couldn't give a sh*t about what falls off the conveyor belt at the end of their shift

[quote name='Clarky' post='531891' date='Jul 3 2009, 06:09 PM']I can't see that a string height of just 1mm would allow sufficient space for the string to vibrate freely - surely you could only get away with that if you played with very lightest of touches? Anyone hitting the string even medium-hard with a pick or digging in with their fingers would just end up with a buzzing, clacking mess[/quote] It doesn't seem to be a problem for Wooten.

[quote name='chris_b' post='531882' date='Jul 3 2009, 06:01 PM']Surely this is the difference between the guys who rock and the guys who twiddle?[/quote] Probably - but the guys who "twiddle" are in the 21st century. But I don't want to be controversial

[quote name='Prosebass' post='531660' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:35 PM']I think he explains it in this interview which is well worth watching. [url="http://www.behindthenotes.com/index.php/Featured-Video/Features/Bass/Roger-Sadowsky/menu-id-17.html"]Roger Sadowski[/url][/quote] That is a really interesting (but long!) interview. It sure explains a lot of what we have been debating in this thread. And perhaps his explanation of the radius of the fretboard on Fenders (especially the older ones at 7") is the root of the necessity to raise the action? Thanks for the education! EDIT: One of my cheaper basses had a dead spot, which I assumed was part of the "you get what you pay for" problem. I had a look at it after Sadowsky talked about dead spots, and sure enough, the fret isn't seated properly and that is causing the problem, not the material as I have always believed. I would recommend any techie types to watch the video - it answers a lot of the common questions in the forum. Great stuff

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='531650' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:26 PM']It's undoubtedly down to technique... my technique seems to suit an action of about 3mm. I suppose I'm pretty average in that regard. FWIW, I'd be suprised if the likes of Duck Dunn, John Paul Jones, Bob Glaub, John Sirratt, Rod Clements, Constance Redgrave, David Hayes, Glenn Worf etc. have an action of around 1mm. Surely if a lower string height was beneficial, these experts would use it? [/quote] DO these players all play Fender? Like I said in my edit (which you may not have seen before your last post), maybe higher action is a benefit to Fender only? Just a thought - I'm not knocking Fender BTW!

There may be something in this - but why do players like Gary Willis, Hadrien Feraud, Bona, Wooten, Manring, Anthony Jackson have low actions on their basses? Surely if a higher string height was beneficial, the experts would use it? Apparently Wooten's setup is a 1mm string height. Surely it is down to the players technique? There is a bit about it at [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-128732.html"]t***bass[/url] Maybe a higher string height only makes a difference on certain types of bass. Perhaps the "boutique" basses don't have the need for compensation. ??? EDIT:- having been intrigued by this thread, I have had a fair bit of searching about on the web. It appears that the higher action is preferable to the Fender players mainly. Maybe it's a "Fender thing". I'm not saying this is definitely the case - but it seems a lot of the Fender owners have their setup at 3 mm or more (as were apparently, Jaco's basses)

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='531359' date='Jul 3 2009, 08:12 AM']Thank you. The notes punch with far more authority than they did before I raised the action, even though it's only 1mm or so. It's given me a bigger buzz(sic) than buying a new bass, amp or cabs... and it was free![/quote] You often read that a lot of the established players reckon the tone is "all in the fingers". Maybe raising the strings has made you play in a different way and the punch is down to you now having to adjust your technique accordingly?

[quote name='Zach' post='531305' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:09 AM']Also, had never before heard the bit about avoid notes, shall keep it in mind.[/quote] Nothing to worry about. Some scales have notes which are very dissonant when played against other notes in the chord and generally are best "avoided" - unless you know what you are doing It's all explained in the lesson but the best thing is to generate a chord and play the scales slowly over it. You'll soon find them, and this method also helps to improve your "ear" This is general info, because sometimes, avoid notes can be used. But for non-advanced musicians, stick to the ones that work when creating melodic consonant lines. However, it doesn't hurt to have this knowledge, because then you can make your own mind up.

[quote name='Zach' post='531305' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:09 AM']Sorry if I'm being a bit dim here, but there's one thing I'm unsure about. If you're playing two octaves below the chord that's being played, then will your note effectively be both a 2nd and a 9th and the same time? or does it not even matter? I have a habit of over thinking things, so tell me if i should stop worrying. Also, had never before heard the bit about avoid notes, shall keep it in mind.[/quote] It doesn't matter which range you are playing in. The interval from a note of a second or a ninth has the same "name", but a second is a tone above and a ninth is an octave and a tone above - an octave apart. For example, if the chord is C major, and you play note D, it can be a second or a ninth. If you are talking about chords, and the chord is C major7, the chordal notes would be C E G B. If you expanded that chord to Cmaj9, then you would add the D. That note D would be a ninth above the root C of the chord. If you want to make reference to the note D in relation to the note C, and that note D is a tone above C, then you would describe it as the interval of a second. Intervals within the octave are called simple intervals, and if the intervals are over an octave apart, they are called compound intervals. [url="http://www.aboutmusictheory.com/music-intervals.html"]Here is a reference page on intervals.[/url]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='530998' date='Jul 2 2009, 07:55 PM']'course it is, but it's nice to hear one's tastefully-selected notes in a manner which does them justice....[/quote] Nice sound on your vid.+1 mate I went to see Bassdoc's band recently. Howard has a great sound and it punched through like I have never heard a bass penetrate, especially considering the wasn't DI'd and the rest of the band were. He is from the "old school" and I know he reckons that the bigger the speakers and the cabinet, the better the sound. All about moving air apparently. I think he plays with a pick as well, but I could be wrong, that might help to give him the extra punch. I can't question his philosophy based on what I heard. So I wonder if that is more important than string height? Howard :- do you have a low or high string height?

I have put my crash helmet on in advance:- it really doesn't matter because it's all about the notes..............

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='530893' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:20 PM']I'm totally pants at listening to a song and working out the notes being played. I'm a little better at sorting the rhythm but that still leaves room for improvement. The internet is to blame as I always end up searching for tab or chord charts and working it out from there. Can anyone who teaches give me some ever so simple song recommendations to practice on. A range from easy to moderate would be good. I need to resist the temptation to go to 'Bassmasta' and develop some skills.[/quote] Pick songs that you really like and have probably heard a zillion times but never played. Start with playing just the root notes on each chord change. Once you have that nailed, start to add a few notes "in between" the root notes. Then just develop your own bass line every time you play along to it. I can't give you any song recommendations unless I know your preferences. Who/what are our favourite bands/tunes?

Server is up and running - but as said, if you have any probs, let me know and I'll email the stuff over. Forgot to put a disclaimer on the lesson - "I am not responsible for the improvement in anyone's playing after studying and practically applying the material in this post"

[quote name='51m0n' post='530828' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:19 PM']Holy cow, thats a masterful lesson. Thanks for the effort! This will be really nice to work through over the next couple of weeks. Cheers!![/quote] Thanks, I've just been advised the server is being temperamental at the moment. If anyone has any trouble, pm me and I'll send them direct. If it continues to act up, I'll transfer to a different server. Rob

So that we can get the sound of the scales we covered the last part of lesson two in to our heads, I have made some backing tracks for each modal scale so you can play while listening and reading the stuff. The scales are written in standard notation along with a method for NON READERS to learn the scales. This is shown at the top of each relevant modal scale. Modes sound different because in a lot of modal music, it does not change tonality or have several "key centres" that you find it tonal music. But these scales are very important, because they can also be applied in tonal music - used to help your choice of notes when using lead sheets/chord symbols etc. For their application, please re-read part one of lesson two - it s all in there. [b]There are 3 tracks per scale in most cases in this lesson[/b]. The modal scale relative to each track is printed below that section, or you can find them [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/Modal%20scales.pdf"]here[/url] Play the scale a few times before joining in to the playalong, and at some point, learn to play it starting on every different starting note (Db,D,Eb,E,F,F#,G,Ab,A,Bb and B natural) on your bass. [b]The first track[/b] is piano, bass and drums with the bass playing a simple two to the bar, mainly to let you hear the root note/anchor of the scale, which helps you to hear the colour of the mode. Don't expect great musicianship or quality on these! They have been done purely with an aim to help your development and as a tool to be used in future lessons. I've used midi instruments, but it does the job. [b]The second track omits the bass[/b] so you can play the scale over the piano and drums, here the modal quality of that scale and build your own bass lines. When you play over the second track, try to play the chordal notes (root 3 5 and 7) on the downbeats (1 and 3) and the tensions (the non chordal notes) on the other beats and "spaces" Get adventurous and play eight notes to the bar if you can! Use the backing tracks to increase your improvisational skills too. [b]The third track is the same mode in a different style[/b]. This has the bass line structured specifically to amplify the modal sound. Have a listen, but feel free to play along with it maybe an octave higher so your bass doesn't clash with the recorded bass line. These are played by better instruments and last longer so perhaps may be more useful for experimenting with. In the next lesson, we will be looking at music/songs that have varying key centres/tonalities so we can start putting bass lines together that will fit where you have lots of chordal movement. These scales will be needed to create flowing melodic bass lines. One further point - don't be put off just because you might think this doesn't apply to your type of music. It certainly does - it is up to you to absorb it and translate and apply to the music of your choice. You can play along as rhythmically as you like, it doesn't have to be walking bass "4 to the bar", and in the 3rd backing track for each mode, if you play along it will certainly help you to develop your improvisational and solo skills. References to the modal scales, their qualities and uses are all documented in Lesson Two, Part One. It is imperative that you get a "handle on it" before you launch in to the following. And before I get loads of PM's, please remember, the idea of this is purely so that you can learn the sounds of the scales, how to apply them to given chord symbols, and to increase your ability around your fingerboard. Remember that the bass parts on the second and third tracks for each are NOT what you should be playing. They are there to give the root and therefore anchor the chord. Feel free to play root and fifth if you like, to get started as is on the second track for each mode, but ultimately you should be swinging four to the bar with approach notes etc (daddio!!) The tracks last about 30 seconds so you may have to loop them if you want to play over them for longer. Rob. PS We might miss next weeks lesson cos I am mentally knackered now and there is more than enough to be going on with. But please post any questions you have in this thread, or send me a PM. If I am not around, I am sure you will get answers from other contributors. As usual, don't take advice as gospel, try it out first, and if you like it, use it. As usual, if I have made mistakes in this post, it is due to lack of attention to detail (because I have been watching Wimbledon whilst writing it), let me know and I will sort it out. [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/Modal%20scales.pdf"][b]LINK TO MODAL SCALE SHEET[/b][/url] ====================================================== [b]C Ionian[/b] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CMAJOR%20-%20IONIAN.mp3"]Backing track one with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/Cmaj7-IONIAN-NO-BASS.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/ionian.mp3"]Backing track with real instruments[/url] Notes C D E F G A B C. ================================= [b]C Dorian[/b] Notes C D Eb F G A Bb C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/Cm7-dorian.mp3"]Backing track with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/Cm7-dorian%20-no-bass.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/dorian.mp3"]Backing track with real instruments[/url] THIS TRACK IS "D" DORIAN - NOT C. Transpose the scale from C to D Dorian Notes in this scale are D E F G A B C D ================================= [b]C Phrygian[/b] Notes C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CPHRYGIAN-B.mp3"]Backing track with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CPHRYGIAN-B-NO-BASS.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/phrygian.mp3"]Backing track with real instruments [/url](THIS TRACK IS E PHRYGIAN- NOT C. Transpose the scale from C to E) Notes in this scale are E F G A B C D E =================================== [b]C Lydian[/b] Notes C D E F# G A B C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/_CLYDIAN.mp3"]Backing track with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CLYDIANNOBASS.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/lydian.mp3"]Backing track with real instruments[/url] THIS TRACK IS F LYDIAN - transpose from the C scale before playing. Notes are F G A B C D E F =================================== [b]C Mixolydian[/b] Notes C D E F G A Bb C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/C7MIXO.mp3"]Backing track with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/C7MIXO-nobass.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/mixolydian.mp3"]Backing track with real instruments[/url] THIS TRACK IS G MIXOLYDIAN - transpose from the C scale before playing. Notes are G A B C D E F G =================================== [b]C Aeolian[/b] Notes C D Eb F G Ab Bb C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CAEOLIAN.mp3"]Backing track with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CAEOLnobass.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/aeolian.mp3"]Backing track with real instruments. [/url]THIS TRACK IS A AEOLIAN - please transpose from the c scale before playing. Notes are A B C D E F G A B C ================================== [b]C Locrian[/b] Notes C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CLOCRIAN.mp3"]Backing track with bass[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CLOCNOBASS.mp3"]Backing track no bass[/url] Backing track with real instruments - haven't got one for this - sorry =================================== [b]Other backing tracks for scales illustrated in previous lesson.[/b] These are just as important! [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CDIM.mp3"]C Diminished Scale with bass[/url] Notes C D Eb F Gb Ab A B C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CDIMNOBASS.mp3"]C diminished scale with no bass.[/url] [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CAUG.mp3"]Augmented (whole tone) scale with bass[/url] Notes C D E F# G# Bb C [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/CAUGNOBASS.mp3"]Augmented (whole tone scale ) without bass[/url]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='530104' date='Jul 1 2009, 11:18 PM']One typo, the Dorian has a flat 3rd and flat 7th - you described the notes correctly, but not the "structure" It wouldn't hurt to note that the Aeolian mode is also the Natural Minor scale.[/quote] Thanks for pointing that out Paul, I have corrected the typo. Yes, the Aeolian is the Natural Minor Scale. I omitted that initially so as to not cause confusion amongst learners, because of the importance of concentration on the Jazz minor (ascending Melodic Minor) for now. The Jazz Minor is going to be studied when we look at the other 5 scales that I didn't cover in this lesson. The other Minor scales are scheduled for a another lesson when we study functional harmony and songs written with the tonic as a Minor chord. I am still working on the backing tracks for constructing basslines and playing the scales in Lesson 2 part 1. I hope to have them online very soon.

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='529338' date='Jul 1 2009, 08:57 AM']For the sake of those who are new to all this, I think we need to clarify that [font="Arial Black"]Rob's truly excellent work[/font] here is really concerned with improvised soloing (in any genre - but here he has presented the accepted "jazz" thinking). As bass players we get presented with a whole load of different circumstances when we solo - drummers who stop playing / pianists who try to obliterate us / guitar players who insist on comping in the same range we are soloing in etc etc (THINKS - I might start a thread about how bass players should insist on certain criteria for the accompaniment of their solos). I would encourage Rob (if he has time) to break down these theory lessons into bite sized chunks, and gear some of it at least, to the theory /understanding that a rhythm section bass player needs to know - ie how this knowledge translates into a good bass line. Those of us who have the benefit of experience, probably know most of what Rob has written here (although it's always good to read the theory from another's perspective) but I'm concerned that, to a newer player, this will seem like gobbledigook and will put them off reading further. The theory of music is a fascinating subject, but some of it's concepts take time to digest and internalize and I don't think it can be rushed. The Major[/quote] Okey dokey - in Lesson 2 part 2 , which will be next weeks lesson, we will have a look at developing some bass lines from the information given in part 1. Good idea. As I said in Lesson 1, this thread in not for newbies or people that can't read music. If you fall in to that category,please PM me and I can send you some stuff to start you off, and you can always revert to these online lessons once you get a grip of "the basics" that are required to take you on to another level. Later today, I will upload some playalongs/backing tracks so you can experiment playing the chordscales in Lesson 2 Part 1, over those particular chords. In next weeks lesson, we will put some chord sequences together with play alongs so you develop some walking bass lines over some 4 bar sequences. Although the information in the first part of lesson 2 can be used for the basis of improvisation, it also contains the theory required to construct your own bass line - in other words, the scalar notes available to "fit" a chord symbols. Take them one by one, and once you have played the chordal tones of a chord a few times, experiment by putting some of the tensions in there too, so you can develop the sound of your lines. Nothing is cast in stone here, it's up to you to experiment. You will find it best to play the chordal notes on the downbeats and the scalar notes/tensions on the upbeats for now. Most of them will be in a 4 to the bar bass style because of the recent thread we had where a lot of people showed interest in walking bass lines and bebop. However, the theory can apply to most genres, and the important thing is learning how to play over the chord changes and which notes work for you in the type of music you are interested in. There are dozens of backing tracks you can invest in, in the style of your choice. if you need a list of suppliers, drop me a pm. I'll get the playalongs uploaded as soon as I can so you can start to put the content of lesson 2 part 1 in to perspective. Rob EDIT :- Play alongs have now been uploaded - see lesson two - part two.

[b]Lesson 2 - Chords and Scales.[/b] [b][i]Part One.[/i][/b] I have started this in another post to separate it from the first lesson, and will do so in future posts. For this week only I have duplicated the content of this in to the first lesson so people who have tracked or subscribed to the topic can find it ok. [i][b]Backing tracks for the scales below are now available in part two of this lesson.[/b][/i] Before we start, if you have any questions, or need explanation about any aspect of this content, please ask on the forum or send me a PM. Those of you that have my private email address and want expansion on any of this - feel free to contact me. If you want to be a clone, sound and play like every other bass player on your CD's by just learning copycat established licks, this lesson will be a waste of time. HOWEVER:- If you want to develop your skills and be able to develop and play bass lines, create your own individual sound/style, have a greater understanding of the great bass lines you hear and be able to reproduce them more quickly - then the content of this lesson will go a long way towards helping you achieve that aim. James Jamerson and Carol Kaye, and countless more modern players, came from a jazz background, and some even came from a classical environment. Jamerson was a double bass player originally and Carol Kaye was a bebop guitarist. And because of that experience and the knowledge required in a demanding musical environment, they had the ability to play in a way that brought a new sound to popular music. They knew the notes that could be played over a chord or chord sequence. Because of the rhythmic development of music produced, for example, in Motown, they could play very melodic bass lines without sticking to the basic chordal notes that can be heard in a lot of the other "pop" music of the time, played by bass players who lacked the musical knowledge to "stand out from the crowd". [b]There are basically only 15 chord scales commonly used[/b], and the most confusing area for musicians at some stage, is "which scale can I use as the source for notes that I can play over that particular chord or sequence of chords". The 15 scales are different modes of the 4 primary scales. These are (starting with the note C) [b]Major[/b] C D E F G A B C [b]Melodic Minor ascending[/b] - sometimes called the "jazz" minor C D Eb F G A B C (There are three main minor scales but we'll stick with this one for now) [b]Diminished[/b] (See below) [b]Wholetone[/b] (See below) Once you understand this lesson, and know your [b]chordal and passing notes[/b], you will be able to apply the info and have a great facility for practical application when playing. The best way to practice and learn these critical scales, and more importantly, how they sound, is to play along with pre-recorded backing especially recorded for the purpose of learning scales and playing them over chord sequences. [b]Backing tracks for the scales below are now available in part two of this lesson[/b] send me a PM please. Over a period of time, I will try to upload some of them so you can access them directly from this thread. The purpose of giving insight into this subject so you can develop your own bass lines for example, over chord symbols/lead sheets. There are a number of statements made here which may, to the experts, seem very basic or even contradictory to their knowledge. They are made only for the purpose of keeping things simple for now, we have to start somewhere. Over a period of time, I will introduce explanations about how and why some of the rules can be broken. For now, please just run with this, but if there are any glaring mistakes, let me know so I can edit them. [b]The scales are made up of chord tones and passing notes[/b]. You probably know this, but let's review the following assuming that you don't: A chord is made up of 3 or more notes that sound together. Most often, chords are tertian, meaning constructed from thirds. Example: The chord of F major is built from the scale F G A Bb C D E To build a basic 3 note chord, take the F note, and add every third note of the scale. You then have the notes F A and C. This is the F major chord. To build a 4 note chord, use the same approach and add the E to the basic 3 note chord. You then have a chord Fmajor7. We'll stick to 3 or 4 note chords for now and go in to 5,6 and 7 note chords later. The appropriate chord scale for a chord in a song is determined by the harmonic function of the chord in the key. Which also means that each chord has a different sound in relation to a specific key (tonality). An identical chord symbol in two different places in a piece of music, can therefore have different functions, and the choice of notes that will "fit" that chord may be different. We'll do some functional harmony stuff later on if anyone is interested, and for now we'll look at the main 15 scales and their uses so you can pick up a chord chart and start applying them. [b]Chord scales mainly have 7 notes, but there are a few that have 5, 6 or 8 notes.[/b] The scale produces a basic chord and other voicings that have tensions. Basically, [b]chord tones [/b]always sound like they "fit" nicely when played over the relevant chord, and other "[b]tension[/b]" notes of the scale tend to create more dissonance. Tensions from the scale can be added to chords to create what we call "extended voicing" without changing the chord scale "colour". [b]Chord tones[/b] are the 1st, 3rd 5th and seventh notes of the scale and sometimes the 6th. These are the principle notes you would play over a chord, and you would add the other notes in the scale as passing notes. [b]Tensions [/b]are the three extensions of the chord called the 9th, 11th, and 13th. In the case of C Ionian scale (see the scales below) the 9th would be D the 11th would be F and the 13th would be A. They can also be used as melody tones because they still "fit" the chord. They do however, create more dissonance or tension. Another type of note in the scale is termed [b]"avoid notes"[/b]. They are called this because they sound (to most people) extremely dissonant and jarring to the ear. The avoid notes are a half step above a chord tone. When played, they create a minor 9th interval above a chord tone, and if not used properly, sound "wrong". The avoid notes can be used, but you have to know what you are doing. So it might be best to leave their application until later in the lessons. Avoid notes are normally only used as passing tones in melodies. They are normally only used as approach notes in bass playing - in between chordal notes and tensions on an upbeat, a chromatic lead into a scalar note a semitone above or below. In the scale of C major the note F is an avoid note and can't be used as a tension. It is the interval of a minor 9th with the major 3rd (E) that creates the dissonance. [b]There are natural and altered tensions[/b]. Natural tensions are the 9th, 11th, #11th and 13th. Altered tensions are b9, #9, b5, #5, and b13. An altered 5th of the scale is treated as a tension. Dominant chords, e.g. the G7 in a key of C, can have many altered tensions depending on their key function. We will cover altered dominant scales etc in a few weeks time. The tension notes, 9, 11 and 13 means that the chord underneath is a seventh type. So, for example in a:- Cmaj9, the chord will be made up of C E G B C9 (dominant) the chord will be made up of C E G Bb D C13, the chord will have C E G Bb as the supporting notes to the 13th which is A. If one the upper tensions is present in a chord symbol, you can use other tensions to support it. For example, in a C 13th you can also include the 9th (D) Note, in a major 6th chord, e.g. C6, the 6th note of the scale (A) is added to the basic triad of C E G. [b]MAJOR CHORD TENSIONS[/b] Major chords can use the tensions 9, #11, 13 if they are in the scale. You will not generally see tension 11 (the note F in the scale of Cmajor) on a major chord because it is an avoid note. Tension 13 (the note A in Cmajor scale) is available on major 7th chords, but it is more often found as chord tone 6 on a major sixth chord. An extended major type chord must be shown to have the major 7th in the chord symbol. E.g. Cmaj9, Cmaj7 Cmaj13. This is to avoid confusion with dominant seventh chords with extended tones/tensions which would be written as C7 C9 C13 etc. The dominant type chords built on the fifth of the scale always contain the minor seventh interval from the root of the chord (in the case of C7, the note Bb is the 7th because C7 is the dominant chord in the scale of F major). The tensions in a major type chord are 9 #11 and 13. [b]MINOR CHORD TENSIONS[/b] Minor type chords can take tensions 9 11 13 if in the scale. The b9 tension is hardly ever used. Tension 13 is sometimes seen, but is more often seen as the chord tone 6 on a minor 6th chord. Tensions in the chord show an underlying minor seventh chord (e.g. Cm7, Cm9, Cm11). Tensions in a minor chord are the 9 11 and 13. [b]DOMINANT CHORD TENSIONS[/b] These chord types can take b9 #9 #11 b5 #5 b13 and 13 if they are available in the chord scale. The C mixolydian scale, which can be played over C7 (C dominant in the key of F major) has tensions 9 and 13 AND the avoid note 11. It produces C C7 C9 C13 but NOT C11. (There are exceptions to the rule but please just accept this for now and we will cover the exceptions shortly) A dominant chord type called C7sus4 (chord tones 1 4 5 b7) uses the 4th degree instead of the 3rd of the scale as a chord tone. Note 4 is considered a chordtone, not tension 11. If a chord is shown as a 9 or 13, then the underlying chord is a dominant 7th type (C7 C9 C13) Other ALTERED dominant scales produce the rest of the possible chord tensions. If a tension is shown in the chord symbol (i.e. dom#11 mixob9b13) it is understood to be an acceptable tension on the basic dominant chord. Notes that occur in this instance a half step/semitone above a chord tone are not avoid notes because they enhance the function of the dissonant dominant chord. Altered dominant scales and related tensions are coming up in a lesson in a few weeks time. [b]BASIC CHORDSCALES[/b] These are the ten most important scales for building bass lines and improvisation. The rest of the scales we will look at in later lessons are variations of these 10 basic types. The first 7 scales are derived from a major key. The other three scales fit the other chord types not covered by the diatonic modes. I have shown these earlier, but will repeat them here for ease:- (Using C as the starting note in each example) 1). LYDIAN - C D E F# G A B - Structure 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 The #4 makes this one sound a little unusual. Basic derived chords are the major triad, major7 and major6. Tensions are 9 #11 and 13. The Lydian is usually linked with the IVmaj7 chord. 2). IONIAN - C D E F G A B - Structure 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 of the major scale. Derived chords are major triad, major7 and major6. Tensions are 9 and 13 (avoid note 4!) Associated with Imaj7 chord. 3). MIXOLYDIAN - C D E F G A Bb - notes 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 of a major scale. This is the basic dominant scale. Derived chords are major triad and dominant 7th. Basic tensions are 9 and 13. Avoid note 4. It is the scale used for the basic V7 chord. 4). DORIAN - C D Eb F G A Bb - structure 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 Basic derived chords are minor triad and minor 7th. Tensions are 9 11 and 13. There are no avoid notes. Normally associated with the IIm7 chord. 5). AEOLIAN - C D Eb F G Ab Bb - structure 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 Basic derived chords are the minor triad and minor 7th. Tensions are 9 and 11 (avoid note b6) It is ususally associated with the VIm7 in major keys and Im7 in minor keys. 6). PHRYGIAN - C Db Eb F G Ab Bb - structure 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 Basic derived chords minor triad and minor 7th. Tension is 11 (avoid note b2 and b6). Associated with the IIIm7 chord. 7). LOCRIAN - C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb - structure 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 Basic derived chords are the diminished triad and minor7b5. Usually associated with VIIm7b5 and is sometimes called the half-diminished. Tensions are 11 and b13 (avoid note is b2). NON DIATONIC SCALES In addition to the above, there are 3 non diatonic scales, these scales do not emanate from the major scale. 8). The SYMMETRICAL DIMINISHED. C D Eb F Gb G# A B - Structure 1 2 b3 4 b5 #5 6 7. This is an eight note scale and is has a symmetrical structure of whole step, half step, whole step, half step etc until you reach an octave from where you started. Therefore, the notes in C diminished are the same as those in Eb diminished, Gb diminished and A diminished. On this basis, there are only another two diminished scales based on the same principle, which are C#dim and Ddim. Then you arrive at Ebdim which is the same scale as Cdim. In other words, every 3rd note is the root of another scale that contains the same notes as the chord a minor 3rd away from it. Basic derived chords are the diminished triad and diminished 7th. No avoid notes. 9). WHOLETONE. C D E F# G# Bb - structure 1 2 3 #4 #5 b7 The wholetone scale is also a symmetrical scale as it consists of whole tones only. There are only 2 different wholetone scales and this is a 6 tone scale. Basic derived chords are the augmented triad and the augmented 7th. Tensions are 9 and #11 with no avoid notes. It is normally used as a dominant type chord. 10). MELODIC MINOR (Ascending, or Jazz minor) C D Eb F G A B - structure 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 This scale can be thought of as a major scale with a b3. This is a very important scale as it generates other important modes which are used in improvising and building walking bass lines. The descending version is the same as the Aeolian. Basic derived chords are the minor triad, minor6 and minormaj7. No avoid notes. Available tensions are 9 11 and 13 and it is normally found as a Im6 or IVm6 chord. The other 5 scales will be covered in the next lesson. PENTATONIC SCALES Normally pentatonic scales are the first scales learned and used by beginners. That's because they seem to "fit" so many sequences and are easy to learn because of their "shapes" on the fretboard of your bass. Problem is, so many people never progress beyond pentatonics and as a result, just sound like every other bassist that doesn't have the knowledge above and how to apply it. However, they are great for colouring the melody and bass line or when soloing because they contain the characteristic notes of the mode you might be playing in. The major pentatonic fits the first 3 chordscales above - leaving the 4th and 7th as "colour" notes. The minor pentatonic fits the next 3 - dorian, aeolian and phrygian, leaving the 2nd and sixth notes as colour notes. Major pentatonic notes are (using C major as example) C D E G A. Minor pentatonic notes are (using C as example) C Eb F G Bb More soon...................don't forget to either post in the thread if you have any questions. PM me if you want private answers. I hope this stuff is proving to be useful.

[b]Lesson 2 - Chords and Scales.[/b] [b][i]Part One.[/i][/b] Before we start, if you have any questions, or need explanation about any aspect of this content, please ask on the forum or send me a PM. Those of you that have my private email address and want expansion on any of this - feel free to contact me. WARNING:- If you want to be a clone, sound and play like every other bass player on your CD's by just learning copycat established licks, this lesson will be a waste of time. HOWEVER:- If you want to develop your skills and be able to develop and play bass lines, create your own individual sound/style, have a greater understanding of the great bass lines you hear and be able to reproduce them more quickly - then the content of this lesson will go a long way towards helping you achieve that aim. James Jamerson and Carol Kaye, and countless more modern players, came from a jazz background, and some even came from a classical environment. Jamerson was a double bass player originally and Carol Kaye was a bebop guitarist. And because of that experience and the knowledge required in a demanding musical environment, they had the ability to play in a way that brought a new sound to popular music. They knew the notes that could be played over a chord or chord sequence. Because of the rhythmic development of music produced, for example, in Motown, they could play very melodic bass lines without having to play the basic chordal notes that can be heard in a lot of the other "pop" music of the time, played by bass players who lacked the musical knowledge to "stand out from the crowd". [b]There are basically only 15 chord scales commonly used[/b], and the most confusing area for musicians at some stage, is "which scale can I use as the source for notes that I can play over that particular chord or sequence of chords". The 15 scales are different modes of the 4 primary scales. These are (starting with the note C) [b]Major[/b] C D E F G A B C [b]Melodic Minor ascending[/b] - sometimes called the "jazz" minor C D Eb F G A B C (There are three main minor scales but we'll stick with this one for now) [b]Diminished[/b] (See below) [b]Wholetone[/b] (See below) Once you understand this lesson, and know your [b]chordal and passing notes[/b], you will be able to apply the info and have a great facility for practical application when playing. The best way to practice and learn these critical scales, and more importantly, how they sound, is to play along with pre-recorded backing especially recorded for the purpose of learning scales and playing them over chord sequences. [b]IF YOU WANT SUPPORTING BACKING TRACKS TO PLAY OVER USING THE MATERIAL IN THIS POST[/b] send me a PM please. Over a period of time, I will try to upload some of them so you can access them directly from this thread. The purpose of giving insight into this subject so you can develop your own bass lines for example, over chord symbols/lead sheets. There are a number of statements made here which may, to the experts, seem very basic or even contradictory to their knowledge. They are made only for the purpose of keeping things simple for now, we have to start somewhere. Over a period of time, I will introduce explanations about how and why some of the rules can be broken. For now, please just run with this, but if there are any glaring mistakes, let me know so I can edit them. [b]The scales are made up of chord tones and passing notes[/b]. You probably know this, but let's review the following assuming that you don't: A chord is made up of 3 or more notes that sound together. Most often, chords are tertian, meaning constructed from thirds. Example: The chord of F major is built from the scale F G A Bb C D E To build a basic 3 note chord, take the F note, and add every third note of the scale. You then have the notes F A and C. This is the F major chord. To build a 4 note chord, use the same approach and add the E to the basic 3 note chord. You then have a chord Fmajor7. We'll stick to 3 or 4 note chords for now and go in to 5,6 and 7 note chords later. The appropriate chord scale for a chord in a song is determined by the harmonic function of the chord in the key. Which also means that each chord has a different sound in relation to a specific key (tonality). An identical chord symbol in two different places in a piece of music, can therefore have different functions, and the choice of notes that will "fit" that chord may be different. We'll do some functional harmony stuff later on if anyone is interested, and for now we'll look at the main 15 scales and their uses so you can pick up a chord chart and start applying them. I will also be linking to some more midi files at the end of this lesson so that you can play over them and hear how your choice of notes from those scales sound in relation to the chords and the key centres of the song. [b]Chord scales mainly have 7 notes, but there are a few that have 5, 6 or 8 notes.[/b] The scale produces a basic chord and other voicings that have tensions. Basically, [b]chord tones [/b]always sound like they "fit" nicely when played over the relevant chord, and other "[b]tension[/b]" notes of the scale tend to create more dissonance. Tensions from the scale can be added to chords to create what we call "extended voicing" without changing the chord scale "colour". [b]Chord tones[/b] are the 1st, 3rd 5th and seventh notes of the scale and sometimes the 6th. These are the principle notes you would play over a chord, and you would add the other notes in the scale as passing notes. [b]Tensions [/b]are the three extensions of the chord called the 9th, 11th, and 13th. In the case of C Ionian scale (see the scales below) the 9th would be D the 11th would be F and the 13th would be A. They can also be used as melody tones because they still "fit" the chord. They do however, create more dissonance or tension. Another type of note in the scale is termed [b]"avoid notes"[/b]. They are called this because they sound (to most people) extremely dissonant and jarring to the ear. The avoid notes are a half step above a chord tone. When played, they create a minor 9th interval above a chord tone, and if not used properly, sound "wrong". The avoid notes can be used, but you have to know what you are doing. So it might be best to leave their application until later in the lessons. Avoid notes are normally only used as passing tones in melodies. They are normally only used as approach notes in bass playing - in between chordal notes and tensions on an upbeat, a chromatic lead into a scalar note a semitone above or below. In the scale of C major the note F is an avoid note and can't be used as a tension. It is the interval of a minor 9th with the major 3rd (E) that creates the dissonance. [b]There are natural and altered tensions[/b]. Natural tensions are the 9th, 11th, #11th and 13th. Altered tensions are b9, #9, b5, #5, and b13. An altered 5th of the scale is treated as a tension. Dominant chords, e.g. the G7 in a key of C, can have many altered tensions depending on their key function. We will cover altered dominant scales etc in a few weeks time. The tension notes, 9, 11 and 13 means that the chord underneath is a seventh type. So, for example in a:- Cmaj9, the chord will be made up of C E G B C9 (dominant) the chord will be made up of C E G Bb D C13, the chord will have C E G Bb as the supporting notes to the 13th which is A. If one the upper tensions is present in a chord symbol, you can use other tensions to support it. For example, in a C 13th you can also include the 9th (D) Note, in a major 6th chord, e.g. C6, the 6th note of the scale (A) is added to the basic triad of C E G. [b]MAJOR CHORD TENSIONS[/b] Major chords can use the tensions 9, #11, 13 if they are in the scale. You will not generally see tension 11 (the note F in the scale of Cmajor) on a major chord because it is an avoid note. Tension 13 (the note A in Cmajor scale) is available on major 7th chords, but it is more often found as chord tone 6 on a major sixth chord. An extended major type chord must be shown to have the major 7th in the chord symbol. E.g. Cmaj9, Cmaj7 Cmaj13. This is to avoid confusion with dominant seventh chords with extended tones/tensions which would be written as C7 C9 C13 etc. The dominant type chords built on the fifth of the scale always contain the minor seventh interval from the root of the chord (in the case of C7, the note Bb is the 7th because C7 is the dominant chord in the scale of F major). The tensions in a major type chord are 9 #11 and 13. [b]MINOR CHORD TENSIONS[/b] Minor type chords can take tensions 9 11 13 if in the scale. The b9 tension is hardly ever used. Tension 13 is sometimes seen, but is more often seen as the chord tone 6 on a minor 6th chord. Tensions in the chord show an underlying minor seventh chord (e.g. Cm7, Cm9, Cm11). Tensions in a minor chord are the 9 11 and 13. [b]DOMINANT CHORD TENSIONS[/b] These chord types can take b9 #9 #11 b5 #5 b13 and 13 if they are available in the chord scale. The C mixolydian scale, which can be played over C7 (C dominant in the key of F major) has tensions 9 and 13 AND the avoid note 11. It produces C C7 C9 C13 but NOT C11. (There are exceptions to the rule but please just accept this for now and we will cover the exceptions shortly) A dominant chord type called C7sus4 (chord tones 1 4 5 b7) uses the 4th degree instead of the 3rd of the scale as a chord tone. Note 4 is considered a chordtone, not tension 11. If a chord is shown as a 9 or 13, then the underlying chord is a dominant 7th type (C7 C9 C13) Other ALTERED dominant scales produce the rest of the possible chord tensions. If a tension is shown in the chord symbol (i.e. dom#11 mixob9b13) it is understood to be an acceptable tension on the basic dominant chord. Notes that occur in this instance a half step/semitone above a chord tone are not avoid notes because they enhance the function of the dissonant dominant chord. Altered dominant scales and related tensions are coming up in a lesson in a few weeks time. [b]BASIC CHORDSCALES[/b] These are the ten most important scales for building bass lines and improvisation. The rest of the scales we will look at in later lessons are variations of these 10 basic types. The first 7 scales are derived from a major key. The other three scales fit the other chord types not covered by the diatonic modes. I have shown these earlier, but will repeat them here for ease:- (Using C as the starting note in each example) 1). LYDIAN - C D E F# G A B - Structure 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 The #4 makes this one sound a little unusual. Basic derived chords are the major triad, major7 and major6. Tensions are 9 #11 and 13. The Lydian is usually linked with the IVmaj7 chord. 2). IONIAN - C D E F G A B - Structure 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 of the major scale. Derived chords are major triad, major7 and major6. Tensions are 9 and 13 (avoid note 4!) Associated with Imaj7 chord. 3). MIXOLYDIAN - C D E F G A B - notes 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 of a major scale. This is the basic dominant scale. Derived chords are major triad and dominant 7th. Basic tensions are 9 and 13. Avoid note 4. It is the scale used for the basic V7 chord. 4). DORIAN - C D Eb F G A Bb - structure 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 Basic derived chords are minor triad and minor 7th. Tensions are 9 11 and 13. There are no avoid notes. Normally associated with the IIm7 chord. 5). AEOLIAN - C D Eb F G Ab Bb - structure 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 Basic derived chords are the minor triad and minor 7th. Tensions are 9 and 11 (avoid note b6) It is ususally associated with the VIm7 in major keys and Im7 in minor keys. 6). PHRYGIAN - C Db Eb F G Ab Bb - structure 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 Basic derived chords minor triad and minor 7th. Tension is 11 (avoid note b2 and b6). Associated with the IIIm7 chord. 7). LOCRIAN - C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb - structure 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 Basic derived chords are the diminished triad and minor7b5. Usually associated with VIIm7b5 and is sometimes called the half-diminished. Tensions are 11 and b13 (avoid note is b2). NON DIATONIC SCALES In addition to the above, there are 3 non diatonic scales, these scales do not emanate from the major scale. 8). The SYMMETRICAL DIMINISHED. C D Eb F Gb G# A B - Structure 1 2 b3 4 b5 #5 6 7. This is an eight note scale and is has a symmetrical structure of whole step, half step, whole step, half step etc until you reach an octave from where you started. Therefore, the notes in C diminished are the same as those in Eb diminished, Gb diminished and A diminished. On this basis, there are only another two diminished scales based on the same principle, which are C#dim and Ddim. Then you arrive at Ebdim which is the same scale as Cdim. In other words, every 3rd note is the root of another scale that contains the same notes as the chord a minor 3rd away from it. Basic derived chords are the diminished triad and diminished 7th. No avoid notes. 9). WHOLETONE. C D E F# G# Bb - structure 1 2 3 #4 #5 b7 The wholetone scale is also a symmetrical scale as it consists of whole tones only. There are only 2 different wholetone scales and this is a 6 tone scale. Basic derived chords are the augmented triad and the augmented 7th. Tensions are 9 and #11 with no avoid notes. It is normally used as a dominant type chord. 10). MELODIC MINOR (Ascending, or Jazz minor) C D Eb F G A B - structure 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 This scale can be thought of as a major scale with a b3. This is a very important scale as it generates other important modes which are used in improvising and building walking bass lines. The descending version is the same as the Aeolian. Basic derived chords are the minor triad, minor6 and minormaj7. No avoid notes. Available tensions are 9 11 and 13 and it is normally found as a Im6 or IVm6 chord. The other 5 scales will be covered in the next lesson. PENTATONIC SCALES Normally pentatonic scales are the first scales learned and used by beginners. That's because they seem to "fit" so many sequences and are easy to learn because of their "shapes" on the fretboard of your bass. Problem is, so many people never progress beyond pentatonics and as a result, just sound like every other bassist that doesn't have the knowledge above and how to apply it. However, they are great for colouring the melody and bass line or when soloing because they contain the characteristic notes of the mode you might be playing in. The major pentatonic fits the first 3 chordscales - leaving the 4th and 7th as "colour" notes. The minor pentatonic fits the next 3 - dorian, aeolian and phrygian, leaving the 2nd and sixth notes as colour notes. Major pentatonic notes are (using C major as example) C D E G A. Minor pentatonic notes are (using C as example) C Eb F G Bb More soon...................don't forget to either post in the thread if you have any questions. PM me if you want private answers. I hope this stuff is proving to be useful.