SevenSeas

[quote name='SevenSeas' timestamp='1380493259' post='2226258'] Hi 'The G' I have read your thread previously, it's great that you went and tried out all those basses and finally found the perfect bass for you. It's funny you mention Arnie, as I had a lesson with him not too long ago (6weeks) as I'm applying to Birmingham Conservatoire, I really want a place (fingers crossed) I'm based quite a way from Birmingham but it isn't too far. (4-5 hours) Judging from your opinion on Thomas Martin I better go and definitely try out some of his basses. (I'm guessing he has some already in stock to try for his 3/4 concert models) the only think is if you ordered a bass from him and it was made (partly) by them in the workshop, surely you wouldn't be able to try the exact bass until it was made. (so no try before you buy?) the customisation for what I want does sound excellent. The price was 6k which is a little over my budget but stretchable. I have had quite a few people mention the Jay Haide as well, someone who had a Bryant recommended the Jay Haide from Martin Bailey, I think the Contrabass shop have one for the same price. I also know another double bassist who studied at Birmingham and got his bass from Thwaites, a fantastic player called Nick. (I mean insanely good) I thought I better check, are you him? (or is this just a coincidence) Cheers, [/quote] Forgot to add, did you get to try out a Bryant on your search?

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1380491157' post='2226209'] Hi SevenSeas Around a year ago I was hunting for a bass in exactly the same price range as yours. I definitely wanted an old bass not a new one. I went round a load of shops etc Stafford, Nottingham, Birmingham, London and tried out around 40 basses altogether. I also went to see BassAce and tried his basses you talk of (very kind of him). In the end out of 40 basses only 3 spoke to me (that were for sale). Thomas Martin, Jay Haide and an unknown Hungarian make bass. The other 37 weren't bad basses obviously they just weren't right for me. In the end it was between a Martin and the Jay Haide Queniol. I tried the Martin Bass by going to their workshops which were pretty impressive and very friendly. His basses in this price range are bought in from Hungary unvarnished with the front and back only tacked on with a bit of superglue so they can easily be got off. They then work on the body, refining it. Then make the rest of it it to your specification ie colour, hardware, bridge, strings, etc, etc. George said it would be the same price for whatever you wanted (Im sure it must be within reason). He said because they get them in ready made it halves their costs which they then pass on to the customer. So they would treat you the same as someone buying a fully carved instrument (ie you get to pick colour, hardware, bridge, strings etc, etc). The only difference to them is that they have half the work done for them by the Hungarians. I was very impressed with the whole set up. They do 3 sizes by the way large (full size), medium (3/4) and small (solo?) - cant remember the correct names sorry but I liked the medium sized on best. The aftercare George described sounded excellent. ie after you buy they would expect you to come back for tweaks after you and it had settled in. Finally it was between the Jay Haide and the Thomas Martin. In the end I took the Jay Haide out on approval and really liked it. Since trying out the Thomas Martin it had been sold and so I couldn't try it again so decided to go with the Jay Haide seen as I really liked it and never looked back. The Jay Haide is excellent. Again I never went out to buy a new bass (2007 practically brand new) but none of the others in my price range suited me regardless of the age. I think the player must be matched to the bass. One of the best shops for choice of good instruments was Thwaites in London. [b]You can read previous posts on my exploits over a year ago here:[/b] (How To By A Bass) [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/171751-how-to-buy-a-double-bass"]http://basschat.co.u...y-a-double-bass[/url] and here: (Where To Buy A Bass) [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176717-where-to-buy-a-double-bass"]http://basschat.co.u...y-a-double-bass[/url] One of the bass teachers at Birmingham Conservatoire is Arnie Somogyi a Great player himself. In November he's doing "Arnie Somogyi Mingus Project" in the CBSO Centre in Birmingham (November) which should be excellent. I think its a workshop and show. Anyway he has been known to buy in basses from Hungary and pass them on to students after he has finished with them. My point is that if you are going to be working with a teacher they can occasionally put you in touch with the right leads to buy the correct bass for you after hearing you play and working with you. Just another idea. Its a long way but if you are up in The Midlands way anytime you are more then welcome to come round for a try and a chat. [/quote] Hi 'The G' I have read your thread previously, it's great that you went and tried out all those basses and finally found the perfect bass for you. It's funny you mention Arnie, as I had a lesson with him not too long ago (6weeks) as I'm applying to Birmingham Conservatoire, I really want a place (fingers crossed) I'm based quite a way from Birmingham but it isn't too far. (4-5 hours) Judging from your opinion on Thomas Martin I better go and definitely try out some of his basses. (I'm guessing he has some already in stock to try for his 3/4 concert models) the only think is if you ordered a bass from him and it was made (partly) by them in the workshop, surely you wouldn't be able to try the exact bass until it was made. (so no try before you buy?) the customisation for what I want does sound excellent. The price was 6k which is a little over my budget but stretchable. I have had quite a few people mention the Jay Haide as well, someone who had a Bryant recommended the Jay Haide from Martin Bailey, I think the Contrabass shop have one for the same price. I also know another double bassist who studied at Birmingham and got his bass from Thwaites, a fantastic player called Nick. (I mean insanely good) I thought I better check, are you him? (or is this just a coincidence) Cheers,

I have to agree, there is no price on your hearing. I went to college for two years with people who never used ear plugs (which is just mental) I have one experience which I am so thankful I had ear plugs in, even though at the time they were foam ear plug. (the ones that block out most of the sound and leave you with lots of bottom end) anyway I was sitting on an amp next to a drummer. (It was a live performance workshop but in between songs, so people fumble around) I went to college with some people who were quite frankly idiots, a inconsiderate drummer decided to smash the ride cymbal as hard as he could (which was parallel with my ears) if I hadn't been wearing ear plugs, I would of been screwed. (I remember everyone getting s huge lecture on it) Anyway for most of college I used foam ear plugs which are okay (much better than having no protection) when I started to do proper gigs i've used (ACS) ER 15's and they're perfect. I can't think of what I would do without them, can go home after a gig and my ears will have no ringing. (If you're a loud band and I mean really really loud, consider 25's. ) If you sign up to Boots Hearing Care (you don't have to pay a membership, it's completely free) you will get a discount, I have a feeling it's about 20%? You can order the ear plugs from there and they will also do the moulds. I sound like an endorsement but out of all the gear you could ever buy this should be your priority, once you lose you hearing thats it. If anything I find they can clear up the sound in a large venue and make you focus on the music more. (maybe this is just my opinion) there are more expensive options i'e having really expensive monitoring systems build into them. (I would imagine for most gigs unless you're playing for some kind of international artist these would be great) They work in a variety of setting the 15's (used them for small trio folk gigs, to currently using them now in a five piece jazz band) http://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=121 You can get different filters for the moulds so 9db, 15db, 25db. (I recommend 15 though, unless you're a drummer)

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1380482223' post='2225998'] ... The amplified sound which is what most of us rely on won't pick up the subtle nuances of an expensive bass. In many cases a cheaper ply or hybrid will amplify better than a very resonant carved which may have feedback issues ... [/quote] True something to consider.

Awesome, big Bill Evans fan! Jazz 625 with Larry Bunker, Chuck Israels & Bill Evans, just amazing. ( of course still a Lafaro fan) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqCBFC1Jr0w

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1380461775' post='2225577'] The price of a bass is different from its value imo. While it's true that certain names do carry a certain cache that means they will hold their value it doesn't necessarily mean that the bass is particularly good. One of my basses is at least three times the cost of the other. Is it three times better. No way! Is it worth what I paid for it.? This is a difficult question. When I consider the skill and effort of the luthier I know I've got a bargain. Are there better basses cheaper than mine. I'd say most definitely. It feels like it's [b]my[/b] bass and that's where the value comes in. It's value to me is what's important. I would say that the Martin Concerto Bass I heard (pizz only) was as good a bass as mine and certainly better value as a jazz bass. I didn't hear how it played arco. Which is why I bought the bass in the first place. It just turned out to be a great jazz bass to0. I think there are good basses to be had in the £1200 - 6000 range . Find a bass you like and play the sh*t out of it. [/quote] What bass are you using at the moment? Also I completely agree, I had a similar chat with another bassist who was explaining that if you look at prices it doesn't always reflect value. I think the important thing like you say is if I pick up the bass and feel like its mine. Also playing the sh*t out of it!

Great suggestions noted; Will make sure I take note, especially about the cloth from a luthier.

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1380377472' post='2224488'] 1. Yeah it'll go out a little bit on gigs. Not the end of the world. 2. I mean khrrrrhhhh it makes an unpleasant noise. See also Velvet Garbo, which were similar, though they seemed to straighten out the more I played them. [/quote] Have you found out why its made that unpleasant noise?

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1380372247' post='2224404'] google is your friend! Thomann and thestringzone.co.uk each sell individual Oliv strings [/quote] Ah amazing thanks Clarky.

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1380440079' post='2225135'] As I said earlier I had an opportunity to hear and play one of Thomas Martin's basses . John Goldsby played on it too. He thought it a nice bass too It would be an excellent jazz bass. Huge quality tone. Judging bass on a brand name is probably not the best approach. No two basses made by the same luthier will be exactly the same. That said there are many higher end Chinese carved basses that are pretty consistent. Perhaps your question might be better answered by playing a load of different basses at your price point and lower. . [/quote] Hi Marvin, True I will be trying out lots of basses when I have all the money together, although it's true that you shouldn't judge a bass on its brand. Would the brand not have an effect on its overall value, i'e keeping its price? If John Goldsby said they were nice they must be awesome.

Also can you buy strings individual? I might want to buy a D and G string Oliv but not want to pay £500 for the whole set.

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1380364805' post='2224275'] I wouldn't get Olivs if you haven't got decent tuners. The tuning seems to be worse on the D than the G but then I've had the G on quite a lot longer, though the D should have settled by now it's been a couple of months and they get played at least an hour an day. The Oliv D has quite a few dead spots for me particularly on Bb. I kind of like the dead notes as they remind me of Larry Gales! I had spirocores on my bass when I got it - the G string annoyed me too much so I went for Oliv G, and recently added Oliv D - they are sumptuous to bow! I am tempted to get a Gamut G string but it does have to be bowable, any advice. [/quote] Yeah exactly, I'm not planning on changing strings on my current bass, they'r fine. (of course string changing is an expensive venture) I might just include some strings I like in the overall cost of my new bass. It completely depends on what I get. If I like Pauls Bryant and I have a lot of money left over then I'll more options to make sure the instrument is setup well and has all the extras I might want. (i.e strings etc etc) I can't see downtuning as being an issue, as I play my bass everyday, I tune it anyway. However how about on gigs? Would you expect the strings to be okay after a two-three hour set? (obviously if theres was interludes I'd be checking my tuning anyway) When you say dead notes do you mean the notes muted?

As the title says, would like peoples different opinions on how they keep their basses up to scratch? I have a plywood bass which was pretty cheap so I haven't been too worried about it, If people have opinions on keeping a fully carved bass up to scratch that would be appreciate? (or more or less what, if anything. Do you do to maintain your basses? (other then taking it to a Luthier)

At the moment I'm using some kind of Spirocore string on my G4Music bass, it does the job. When I brought the bass nearly 18 months ago, I didn't know anything about strings.. (I still don't) Anyway I'm looking to try out new strings when I get a new bass, I play mainly jazz but still practice and play with the bow. I've read numerous threads on this and Oliv strings (although expensive sounds the bees knees) only on particular strings though. I might have to try out the Oliv on the G and D strings; 1: How long do they last? (or can last) 2: Problems with this particular strings? A lot of people have said because of the humidity the strings have unwound? broken? (surely this wouldn't be as much of a problem here because our climate is more stable?) Still undecided about the 'E' and 'A' string - Any suggestions? - Looking for 'fat' tone, with a lot of sustain. The Evah Pirazzi are recommended but then which string type is the right one? (Can someone explain the differences?) (Mittel? Weich? Solo Synthetic?)

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1380316332' post='2223876'] I believe bassace has a Martin concert bass. Maybe a pm would be in order. [/quote] I've spoken to Bass ace already, I said i'd sort something out nearer the time but it's awesome that he has a Bryant and a Martin and an Upton!

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1380307299' post='2223689'] I was having a chat with the guy who does my bass work some time ago and his take was that there's a big leap in quality and tone etc from "starter" basses to those (both new and second hand) that cost around £3,000 (my probable next purchase point) but to get an equivalent jump beyond that you were probably looking at around £10K. That's not to say that there won't be some brilliant instruments below that (and if you can afford to jump to £5K there's more choice) but as you go up the scale you get less "improvement" per pound than you do at the lower end. I may have seen my next bass (subject to exam results and good trading at Christmas), a rebuilt (ie all work done and stable) ex music centre bass solid front and back, German about a hundred years old. Having all the work done first is one of the attractions of the instrument. Steve [/quote] See this is interesting because if you look at all the basses which are; 10-12k instruments, this seems to be the price range for most double basses made by individual luthiers. ( I could be wrong... just what i've looked at) The Bryants are often half of this. (But when you look at the differences between Pauls and the other instrumental makers, what are you actually paying for) Both are making good basses out of quality wood and both are hand made. (I've heard Pauls basses are rough and ready... (this is from someone who's owned a Bryant and i've heard this a few times (not that this is a bad thing because for 4-5k Pauls obviously done a brilliant job) this is why i'd make sure I go and have a good setup done by someone else. Also someone else said his soloist bass (which says on his website is suited for jazz or popular amongst jazz players) are more suited towards orchestral stuff and didn't fancy them as a jazz bass. (of course these are all opinions, so saying who is right and wrong is pretty tough) It was someone who owned the Bryant who recommended I try Martyn Baileys 'Jay Haide' bass and he said he wished he went for that instead. The way I can logically see it; (now I could be wrong... just my opinion) A) The Bryant, for the price great value, the workmanship isn't (or shouldn't be as good as a 10-12k bass.. but this is obvious. If it sounds just as good then does it matter. The Jay Haide could be a really nice bass but it's still going to be a 'partly' manufactured bass, so I doubt it will keep its value. It might be the nicest bass to finish though. C) Emanuel Wilfer bass... they seem to make really nice basses for affordable prices and they've been doing it for years. (of course, you have to go all the way to Germany to get your moneys worth which Is an option. ) D) Thomas Martin Bass, I emailed Tom and he said his basses were 5k + Vat so basically 6k. Parts of the basses are made in the workshop but some parts are made in Hungary. (I think it was Hungary?) What are they like as jazz basses though? I am still looking at the second hand market but as I haven't got the money upfront yet, (most but not all) I haven't spent too long, I've still been browsing though looking for a gem. (which is well... not easy)

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1380284570' post='2223248'] Given your evident seriousness and ambition, I doubt a £5k instrument will satisfy your long term ambitions. Enjoy the hunt, and I hope you're successful and prove me wrong C [/quote] It's a tough one, it's more the fact that I know between now and finishing music college (If I get in) I won't see 5k again, some people will say but how do you know that? If I was studying i'd be working less, also if I do decide to work i'd quite like the money to go towards post-graduate study. (maybe i'll change my mind in a few years time) the problem is now that prices have gone up to 9k a year, it's stupid money! (especially as Post-graduate study you fund yourself not through Student Finance)

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1380285485' post='2223269'] I cant imagine it will cost that much to get to germany and back with a bass. Fly to the nearest airport and ive got direct trains from berlin to amsterdam and back. Ferry across. easy. Also Tony in the contrabass shop is great to deal with. I bought a bow of him over the summer and it was the easiest thing ever. go for a couple of hours, they'll be coffee and biscuits and plenty of bass's. Explain your situation and im sure he'll have something to suit or know some way. [/quote] When I looked at prices I got quotes; Flights over; Train Back; Staying in a hotel. I'd be there (3 days) or 2 nights. One day getting there, one day trying basses and one day getting the train back. Understandable about the Contrabass shop it's an option i'm still considering. It really depends on the prices on the Wilfer basses. I did some estimates and in theory you would get near the top end of their bassist. it's done in grades. For about £7000. That would be a bass (I would hope so) that would last a long time. Hand made, fully carved instrument, The 'make' has a good reputation (should hold its value) they've been a family business since 1905. They finish the basses well. (which.... isn't always the case when you have £5k to spend) for a great price. (the only problem is risking going over there and getting there and the bass not being right or what you wanted. I'll just have to decide.) Who wouldn't want this guy to make you an instrument!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCgCPLxcVQg

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1380290986' post='2223359'] Wow, I am fascinated by this thread. I admire you guys for being so passionate about studying music seriously and making it you career. As a guy who has been paid to play gigs for 20 years I feel a bit of a cheat because I have never studied music, then again I play in very different circles and I can "afford" to play much cheaper intruments! (I also dont get paid all that much of course!!) Anyhow, whatever bass you choose to buy and whatever college you choose to study in, well done to you, your commitment is refreshing, as is your willingness to learn and to ask, which is a very important thing in all walks of life.... By the way, I agree, flying to Germany and back with a bass may not be very expensive and a shop may also act on your behalf for a small-ish commission. Good luck! [/quote] I did look at flying back with the bass but I don't think I could risk it. So if I go (depending on when they send me a quote) I'll be flying over and then getting the train back. it all depends on price, I found a link with the prices the Emanuel Wilfer basses were being sold in America, now I imagine they have to be a hell of a lot to ship them over from Germany to America (then you have VAT on top) so if you went to see them you would be getting the raw price. (no extra) you just have to; A) Hope that they have the right bass in stock. (so obviously I'm waiting for them to send a quote and I wouldn't go over until they had enough basses in stock. Just looking at one of the videos showed how dedicated they are, they also have a great reputation the price seems pretty good.

Also one other thing, make sure the bow isn't too tight! When you bow the string it should be flexible enough without touching the hair of the bow. I use to tighten the bow way too much, until my teacher used my bow. This was probably my main reason and I haven't had any pain since.

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1380277870' post='2223104'] I was wondering why you would be so convinced of going to one college over all of the others. I understand that you admire Duncan McTier but I believe that he is currently suspended from his position due to allegations of less than admirable conduct. But over and above that, there's a whole lot of other great bass players in this country to learn from, we are spoilt for choice in fact! I have quite a few friends who study at the academy, but I'm pretty sure they all auditioned for other colleges as well and kept an open mind. Have you had consultation lessons with tutors from all of the major colleges? How long since completing your A-Levels are you prepared to wait to successfully audition? Are the other aspects of the course preparing you for what you envision for your career? Are you sure your career goals will be the same in 10/20/40 years? Could you study privately with Duncan McTier for cheaper if he's your main reason for attending the Academy? I'm not trying to have a go I'm just interested in why you have one particularly singular goal. Not that single-mindedness is a bad thing, I think to be honest we all need to be single minded if we are really serious about having a career in music. Personally speaking I've been to university and then done my masters at music college and you learn things in unexpected places. (As you can't hear tone of voice in text, bear in mind that I'm not trying to come across as condescending, I am genuinely very interested and I'm not a classical player so I'm not trying to seem like the bigger man!) Sevenseas, I went to Goldsmiths back in 2005-08. If it's jazz bass you're interested in then Simon Woolf lives a stones throw away from Goldsmiths and taught me an awful lot. [/quote] Hi Mark, It's Andrew, i've just changed my 'basschat' name. So you'll know why I didn't choose Goldsmiths.

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1380281268' post='2223166'] I've set a goal and I reach them no matter what. That's all. If you're really that interested I'll let you know when I get in. Auditioning in December 2014 -F [/quote] Thats good, anythings possible.

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1380279642' post='2223138'] I understand this completely. Im in uni doing music at the moment and funds are always tight (luckily i get a government grant to help with expenses) and the problem is i cant practice and hold down a job as well and go to uni. Just not enough hours. Luckily i do get seasonal work in a chocolate shop which helps a lot. And im getting more paid gigs slowly, hell i did a mime gig on tv last week but it pays. I was just putting the idea out there as im using an old Romanian bass about €1200 or so and it's doing the job for uni, ive had work done on it, new bridge, endpin, fingerboard redone and rounded, neck slimmed and all that. But from talking to my teacher who incidentally uses two bryants as his main bass's that if i do end up going the classical route (which im hoping to do but keeping all my options open) that i should wait till I can get a bass that really matches to a section and in general most of those cheaper bass's (cheap is the wrong word right ) just won't have that depth. It's an idea, i was going to do the same thing but decided to hold off if i would be selling it in 4 years or so at a loss. Uni and especially arts is all about the teacher and what you want to get or achieve from the course. Something to keep in my mind. And to keep everything in check a Bryant would be more then fine for college. I have a friend (maybe more acquaintance) who has been accepted into the Berlin philharmonic academy (yes the Berlin one) who plays one of the more expensive thomann bass's. A thomann bass, he even did his audition on it. Just puts a bit of perspective on it. [/quote] Hey, Yeah thats awesome, moneys money at the end of the day. (regardless of what you've got to do for it) I've done nearly every job (mcdonalds, paperounds, fruit and veg shops, retail, cleaning, literally anything!) The problem is even then I'm still on only 5k a year max! (thats without spending any money) in the last year and a half to save up for a reasonable double bass. So I know how you feel, I currently do three jobs at the moment which works around my time so I can still study bass for the majority of my time. Yeah thats understandable, I have to be honest i'm looking for a bass that will hold its value. I've been thinking about it more and my options so far are; Jay Haide: (only if I know wherever I buy it from Contrabass shop or possibly Martyn Bailey, theres definitely an agreement (which I think there is) you can trade it back in to get a better bass in the future. Paul Bryant: He makes great basses but i've heard that his solo basses are very suited to orchestral stuff (this contradicts what it says on his website... i'm just going by what a few players have told me) I know a few jazz players using them and seem to like them. So I suppose every bass he makes will be individual. I will (hopefully) be studying jazz and I still use a bow so it might be a great bass. Also it should hold its value. Now that he's retiring and I am on the list and he said the end of the year. (I should have so money left, so could go to Roger Dawson for a monster setup. (Obviously I need to look into this) Emanuel Wilfer: This is the most complicated option which involves going all the way to Rolands workshop in Germany, trying all the basses he has in stock then bringing one back. (obviously not easy, I worked out travel was £500 and had to work out which exact trains I was allowed to catch back or my dad said he would drive me if I pay him enough petrol and he wouldn't go during winter. (obviously dark most of the time and driving in a foreign country etc) but looking at prices I will get a lot of double bass for my money! I don't even think i'd have to upgrade, I'm still waiting for a rough quote. Not sure if the Uni quote was directed at me, but I agree. Where are you studying at the moment? Yeah understandable, I am looking for a bass for the long term though. Not just to see me through college. I'll be auditioning for Trinity and Birmingham on my white plywood bass, but at the end of the day I'd be very surprised if they choose a candidate on how expensive their instrument was. I should be about how you play, I know quite a few players my age who have really expensive instruments... as i'm paying for everything myself. It takes a long time, as you know haha.