Dingus

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1399330005' post='2443263'] Dingus, did you spend £2k on a nice shiny kettle lead? [/quote] I'm not that bleedin' daft! ( or indeed that bleedin' rich). I have got some very modest but well-chosen cables in my hifi , but I don't have any fancy power cables. I do have a fairly inexpensive power conditioner, though. Does that make me an eccentric? Probably.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1399327853' post='2443244'] Ah, but have you listened to it through silver cables, eh..? Well..? Have you..? Eh..? Eh..? [/quote] I have actually heard the remastered version through silver cables, and it still sounds thin and compressed, just like the original vinyl version did. Each side is mastered slightly differently though, and the first two sides don't sound as good as sides three and four.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399327173' post='2443235'] What about Physical Graffiti? [/quote] Good point.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1399327076' post='2443233'] Good lord! An audiophile admitting that physical reality is irrelevant to them! [/quote] I'm not an audiophile. I try and avoid being categorized as anything ending in "phile". I'm not sure what physical reality is, but if it's anything to do with the scientific discipline of physics then that will be where you are going wrong. Physics can only do so much, then the real world takes over. According to the laws of physics a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly and Wayne Rooney should be working in garden center instead of playing up front for a wonderfully underperforming and altogether hilarious Manchester United.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1399324899' post='2443202'] Good point. I'd forgotten about how electronic representations of audio signals flow differently in wires to electronic representations of scientific signals [/quote] No one ever listened to Led Zeppelin on a radar or particle detector. That is why everything you have to say is a complete irrelevance.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1399323836' post='2443188'] No, but signal to noise is an important factor just like it is in audio. If magic cables had any kind of real effect oscilloscopes, microscopes, radars, particle detectors, lasers, etc would come with them. They don't. [/quote] Once again, your missing the point. There is no direct comparison between audio equipment and its' perceived performance and that of precise scientific instruments. Such cables may indeed not have a beneficial effect on such equipment , but that does not mean that they don't have an effect on audio equipment. Scientific instruments either work accurately or they do not. The same cannot be said of audio equipment and its' overall sonic complexion and character . It may sound O.K with a standard mains lead, but better with a specialist one. What kind of mains cable someone might use with a microscope or a radar has quite frankly got got bugger all to do with it. I am not sure why you think it might.

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1399308220' post='2442974'] Peed in my shoe once (Long story). Never liked Warwick basses as I would find it easier to pee on one than play one [/quote] At the current retail prices, I would think long and hard before actually peeing on any German-made Warwick. Maybe start off peeing on a Rockbass or,at most, a Pro Series one and see how you go on. Those Made in Korea Warwicks are very good quality and you probably wouldn't notice much difference between peeing on one of them and a proper German one, anyway .

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1399248926' post='2442508'] There's a reason that high end scientific equipment - top of the range oscilloscopes, money no object microscopes, supercomputers, etc - doesn't come with these fancy conditioned power cables or thermally treated cables or whatever the latest audiophile craze is. It's all BS. The only people naiive enough to fall for it are audiophiles and gullible musicians. Still, if people are rich enough that they can afford to spend thousands on enjoying the placebo effect then that's their problem, not mine. [/quote] Significantly though, you don't listen to music on any of that kind of equipment.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399305083' post='2442939'] I peed in the sink once. I was very drunk at the time. It had washing-up in it. [/quote] That story could make one hell of a Fairy Liquid advert . When I was a student in halls of residence a German hippy girl peed in a sink with a room full of people for an audience because she couldn't be bothered to walk to the toilets. It wasn't even her room ! The girl whose sink it was sat there in stunned silence. We all did. I remember thinking at the time, it was that kind of flagrant disregard for other people's sensibilities that caused two world wars. They do make very good cars though, and Warwick basses are good too , if a tad overpriced nowadays .

I remember when those white and gold Premier Dealer Network Stingrays were in the shops, and they all seemed to weigh a ton, if I remember correctly. Someone on Basschat ordered a five string one and had it up for sale within a week or so of receiving it because it was too heavy.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1399188582' post='2441779'] Remind me where I claimed they were 'incontrovertible truths'? [/quote] By presenting these essays without qualification you are implying that they are concrete proof to the contrary

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1399198499' post='2441924'] I do remember once getting a tip (buggered if I can remember where I got it from though so apologies for that), which has served me pretty well over the years when dealing with plugs and cables. Every once in a while it's a good idea to physically unplug permanent cables, spray a bit of WD40 or Switch Cleaner onto a cotton rag, wipe the plugs with it and reinsert them. Used to do about once a year with my studio setup. I found it worked well with my guitar leads too. Can't speak for it's efficacy with mains leads though... [/quote] Just unplugging all the interconnect and speaker cable connections on you hifi and then plugging them back in again a couple of times every once in a while is usually enough to remove any build up of oxidization and subtly improve the sound.

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1399205033' post='2442018'] You know what they say..." a fool and his money are easily parted" - living proof if people are buying these. [/quote] Solid silver cables can make a[u][i] huge[/i][/u] difference to the sound of audio equipment. Whether you will like that difference is a matter of taste, but in many instances, the difference is very real. If you have got a very expensive hifi system ( some people do) then silver mains, interrconnect and spwaker cable can make an enormous difference to the overall sound. Pure silver has a very distinctive sound when used for hifi cables, very crystalline and wide bandwidth ( too much so for some tastes). Partnered with sympathetic components , silver cables can be a revelation . Those components will most likely have to be very, very expensive ones, though, to get value for money from a £3000 mains cable. But bear in mind, some people have CD players that cost £20 00 or more, allied with other equally ( or more) expensive ancillaries. These kind of cables are aimed at that market, not the ordinary average guy.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1399156337' post='2441684'] What should be believed is the repeatable results of properly designed scientific experiments. If the claims of audiophiles and those who sell products to them were true, then they would be easy to demonstrate in well designed scientific experiments that other people could then repeat, and confirm the results. [/quote] What should be believed is the evidence of your own ears. Science finds it very different to measure aesthetic criteria, especially when what improves audio equipment is euphonic distortions of sound , rather than measurably more accurate reproduction of recorded media . Yes, your mind can play tricks on you, but I have heard cables and power supply upgrades make such a difference to the sound of some audio equipment that it is incontrovertibly changed for the better. If it doesn't make that kind of improvement, where you are left in no doubt whatsoever, then don't invest in the upgrade .

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1399151729' post='2441650'] [i]Conclusion The clear conclusion is that ABX testing does not back up many audiophile claims, so they become audiophile myths as they show cables do not inherantly change sound. Any change in sound quality comes from the listeners mind and interaction between their senses. What is claimed to be audible is not reliably so. Blind testing is also sometimes passed off as ABX. But blind testing is not really testing, it is a review of a product without seeing it, and that allows claims to be made about sound which have not been verified. If hifi is all about sound and more specifically sound quality, then we should, once the other senses have been removed be able to hear differences which can be verified by being able to identify one product from another by only listening. But time and agian we cannot. So you can either buy good but inexpensive hifi products such as cables, amps, CDPs and be satisfied that the sound they produce is superb. You do need to spend time with speakers as they really do sound identifiably different. Or you can buy expensive hifi products such as cable tec and luxuriate in the build and image and identify one hifi from another by looks and sound. But you cannot buy expensive and identify it from cheap by sound alone. Here is The Institute of Engineering and Technology's conclusions on audiophile myths [url="http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/11/believe-in-better.cfm"]http://eandt.theiet....e-in-better.cfm[/url] which backs up the above conclusions.[/i] [url="http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths"]http://www.head-fi.o...laims-and-myths[/url] [/quote] Why do you accept these essays as being incontrovertible truths? They are just as prone to being mythologized as the myths they are supposedly debunking.

Well, for domestic hi-fi purposes,what cables sound and work best depends on the components you are using. No one is suggesting that most expensive= best, but some expensive audio equipment won't sound at its' best unless you partner it with expensive cables. Some other very expensive audio equipment, such as that made by Naim and Linn, sounds best with relatively inexpensive own -brand cables that were designed specifically to compliment that equipment. But cables are important and they do make a difference in a decent system.

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1399150118' post='2441619'] I would love to see the science behind this. I'm an electrician, and I can get that these leads "could" make a difference to the current supply but tbh I didn't read all the specs. The power cables in the building in 99% of situations (in aus at least) are rated at 20 amps and are 2.5 mm squared cable for both active and neutral. Given the vast majority of amp or extension leads are 0.75mm squared, there is a big difference in cross sectional area when you start working out the resistance of the circuit on the active AND neutral. If you factor in the material used if it could be lower resistance than your average copper, and reduced the inductance/capacitance of the wire as well then the physics does point to a drastic difference. As to whether or not you could A/B it with a normal one who knows. All I know is that my lava tightrope patch lead kit made a massive difference to the standard lead cable/neutrik setup I ran before in regards to tone suck. When I say massive I mean MASSIVE! [/quote] Bear in mind in anything I have to say on this subject that I don't understand how electricity works, and can't even wire a plug or change a fuse. But yes, I agree

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1399149988' post='2441616'] What if we don't like Tetley? On a slightly more serious note, what is the current state of play on speaker cables? I recall that OFC was once considered the DB's for your HiFi gear... [/quote] What kind of speaker cables are best depends on what you are partnering them with and what kind of effect you want them to have on the sound. OFC is very common, but ceramic wire and silver and even gold cables can all offer a different sonic palette.

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1399149349' post='2441611'] I think Flyfisher's point is valid. I can't see how that last metre of power cable can have an effect unless you can ensure all parts, from power generator to the amp's transformer are perfect, or you're replacing a faulty lead. [/quote] Flyfisher's point assumes that the power supply is sufficiently imperfect to render cables irrelevant. What and where is the evidence to support that ? If some cables sound better than others, they sound better. At a practical level, that is you really need to know

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1399149301' post='2441609'] Totally subjective anyway. Even if a clear difference in sound could be detected, who decides which is the "better" sound? [/quote] That is true of any subjective judgement though. If you really want to know, we use aesthetic criteria commonly known as" judgments of sentiment and taste" to decide what is most pleasing to us.

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1399148747' post='2441598'] That situation being "I haven't got a mains lead"... [/quote] So you genuinely believe that all cables sound the same?

[quote name='lee4' timestamp='1399146392' post='2441560'] Is anybody really that gullable? [/quote] Do you really have to ask that question. There are lots of people who think that the contestants on The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent are actually really talented. Of course people are that gullible. But the fact remains that on some bass amps in certain situations , these cable could improve the sound .

Well I would beg to differ. I am as sceptical as the next man about such things, but power cables can make a substantial and substantive difference to the sound of various kinds of audio equipment. You can argue at a theoretical level about the science all you like, but have any of you ever heard an A/B comparison for yourselves? Power cables, connecting cables and, perhaps more importantly, power supplies can make a profound difference to the overall complexion and quality of the sound. I know it's true because I have heard it with my own ears on more than one occasion. O.K , let the bloodbath begin . I'm back in the Secure Unit on Monday morning , so lets get on with it.