timbass

I think that the input channels of most ordinary bass amps are not optimised for the impedance of piezo pick-ups and therefore need a pre-amp. My experiments seem to support this. I suggest buying a pre-amp, trying it out and selling it on ebay if you don't like it. That's what I did, and the LR Baggs and Headway EDB1 that I tried were both excellent in their own way - before getting rid of my piezo pickups altogether and the pre-amps shortly afterwards. I lost about 45% of the purchase cost but counted this as a cheap experiment to get a good sound. I now use a Kent Armstrong mag pickup and an AKG C411P contact condenser mic and haven't felt it necessary to change in about 2 years. It all depends on what style of music you play and the relative volume levels of your companion musicians. I play melodic jazz alongside some loud drums and up against Hammond organ that competes mightily in the low frequencies. I saved up hard and have Bose L1 model 2 with B2 bass bin and love it. I use Phil Jones for smaller gigs and Roland Cube 100 for rehearsal, all using Bose ToneMatch pre-amp (brilliant kit). But that's just me and I probably don't know much. Good luck with your experiments.

Lots of good advice above. In any loud band feedback through your DB is the main enemy I think. My personal experience: I experimented with several pre-amps, piezos and a Schaller magnetic DB pickup before settling on AKG C 411 P contact mic and Kent Armstrong mag pickup. I blend these through Bose ToneMatch but other mixers will do. Notch filters are very useful because the DB body makes your instrument into a huge microphone with several resonant frequencies that cause feedback. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with your amplification set-up (as long as you don't mind lugging it around) but the sound might be a bit "muddy" in comparison to cleaner amps like Phil Jones or A.E.R. Using ebay to buy and sell your experimental set-ups is a way of minimising the cost of what can otherwise be an expensive journey through trial and error. Listening to other people's set-ups is a very good idea.

1) Get some lessons soon, definitely before you mess with anything on the instrument like strings or action. 2) The lack of bottom end might possibly be due to technique, if you are plucking the strings like a bass guitar then you will mostly get a thin sound - check out this very good advice from [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ99qaJV3XQ"]Geoff Chalmers[/url]. What sort of pickup does it have? What sort of music do you want to play with what kind of band? If you think you're too small for a 3/4, just check out [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xbHWp1KfSE"]Esperanza Spalding[/url]

Thanks for sharing. I wish there were a "like" button here. From a complete novice: is your wrist is a little bent inwards? would it help to move your stance a bit - boogie to the beat? Lovely sound.

Must get to Rushden to try a Nick Weldon workshop sometime - my friend Sid Thomas, whom I make sounds with occasionally, has been there a couple of times and speaks very highly. Earlier in this thread [b]spencer.b[/b] recommended [url="http://www.jazzcapacitor.com/transcriptions.html"]Jazz Capacitor[/url] - (thanks for that tip spencer. a great web site with transcriptions where you will find this great bit of "Walkin'" by Raymond Matthews Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHp1zs3U8iU for me it does not get much better than that: simple, effective and just so beautifully cool.

I am on vacation with family in Delray Beach, FL for two weeks and would like to hire a 3/4 DB to keep up with my practice and possibly take some tuition. Any of you kind, wise people have any advice for me?

I hate piezo sound and think a simple mic will cause you less hassle, modifications and risk of damage and obviate the need for a pre-amp (that most piezo set-ups seem to need). What's the PA? If the cajon is going through it, it can't be that bad and I would include it in your set-up and use the mic/sponge and your Ashdown Mag 210 to drive the PA via DI and for back-line monitor and EQ. You will get feedback at some point, but with more power (using the PA as well) and a greater spread you will get a better sound-level and tone before feedback level and having to use notch filters. If you use ONLY the Mag 210 with a mic you will have to position yourself some distance away. Also look out for feedback through the stage and endpin into your DB that can also give a horrible boomy resonance in some halls. BTW, tape the mic lead to the tail-piece to stop annoying vibrations against the sound-board and to prevent the mic being easily pulled out during your gyrations at the gig! Good luck. Please let us know how you get on.

Excellent find, thank you.

Yes I play with drummers. The Bose L1 PA helps reduce feedback - seems to be a property of linear array speakers. The AKG mic will always feedback first but usually with enough volume headroom before that happens and if it's that loud then the mag pickup will always win, albeit with some loss of the nice acoustic sounds. When I play with jazz trio at lower volume using just the PJB it has never been a problem. Even with the mag pickup you can get feedback at some point because the contrabass body acts as a huge microphone. A couple of things about the Bose ToneMatch - it has phantom power for the AKG Condenser mic and it saves "scenes" so when you get the sound right (there is a lot of choice with EQ and compressor/limiter) then you just save it. This cuts gig set-up time and fiddling, usually in the dark with loads of people shouting drunkenly and barely enough room to stand.

After using several blender/pre-amps (including LR Baggs, which was quite good) I have settled on [url="http://www.bose.co.uk/GB/en/home-and-personal-audio/speakers/live-sound/l1-t1-tonematch-audio-engine/"]Bose ToneMatch[/url] now for about a year. This lovely piece of kit works with my PJB Suitcase and Bose L1. I use a bass preset on my mag pickup (with compression) and a guitar preset for my AKG C411 PP condenser mic. Nice airy sound with good thump.

Geoff Chalmers is really good - see his site here: http://www.discoverdoublebass.com Good luck.

[quote name='alexpea' timestamp='1386860154' post='2305528'] this ones pretty fun... [/quote] Lots of fun - even anarchic

Just found another great bassist - Jimmy Blanton - who died aged 23 apparently. Very sad. http://youtu.be/8xJlV0Agi1w

mesmerised: [url="http://youtu.be/lfEtf0C5ovg"]http://youtu.be/lfEtf0C5ovg[/url]

What about Esperanza? http://youtu.be/jgnDE_5Wxiw Yep, there's something about Esperanza!

I think that "soul" comes from the micro-second responses exchanged between players in a band that vary pace, volume and the duration of notes, rests, chords and other structures like glissando. Aaah I don't really know what I'm talking about. Anyway, found some more Carlos Bica that I really like: http://youtu.be/e7NJsI3Q7k0

Thanks Geoff, TheRev (I wouldn't have seen that video if you hadn't posted it "for the umpteenth time" and Rabbie for your wisdom and thoughts. It is so important for musicians to listen to each other. I have played with several who "go off on one" not understanding that the millisecond interactions create the tension, feel and mood of the music. I was led by a friend to consider and contrast New Orleans with Nordic Rock 'n Roll, one full of loose feel and emotion, the other metronomic, dry and well, soul-less. I will probably be told off big time now.... "TIMOTHY!" my Mum would shout....

I keep coming back to the Willie Dixon vid. Love it. Technique specialists out there care to comment? He sounds amazing, yet seems to break all the rules - doesn't brace his thumb against fingerboard, stands alongside the bass rather than slightly behind it. What can we learn from that?

Ron Carter, up there with Raymond Matthews Brown I think. Some really good classical nominations here that would have been hidden otherwise. It is really good to se the wide difference in techniques. I like this from NHOP - http://youtu.be/GotQd8pKTGQ - defy anyone to produce the notation for that! BTW this guy is good too : http://www.discoverdoublebass.com

Thanks for your wisdom. No poll.

Loving this thread, thanks loads to all the contributors. Should we turn it into a Poll? Can we do that? Will it get messy?

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1385402444' post='2287835'] Yes very sad. He had a lifetime of drug abuse and his Riverside producer Orrin Keepnews said that he suffered from "a paralysing combination of perfectionism and self-doubt". Hard to believe that someone so talented would suffer that way musically but as we know genius often comes at a price and can be a heavy burden on some. [/quote] The Bill Evans COTW episodes are listed here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tnxf/episodes/guide#b03hjmx4 but when I looked they were all listed as "Not currently available", ?

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1385210467' post='2285621'] Eddie Gomez. Bill Evans certainly knew a good bass player when i heard one. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSmKGuuODKk[/media] [/quote] That's good, I have not heard this Bill Evans interview before - nice piece of filming too.

No irony there! Thanks for sharing.

[quote name='geoffbassist' timestamp='1384695704' post='2279525'] That great Jimmy Garrison video made me think of this short video interview with the late Art Davis who played along side Jimmy Garrison on John Coltrane's album Ascension. [url="http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1737726083/channeling-coltrane-a-concert-video-of-electric-as/posts/260867"]http://www.kickstart...as/posts/260867[/url] [/quote] Thanks Geoff, again something I would never have found! Also thanks for the great online lessons - helped me improve, very kind of you.